AIR DATE:
EPISODE: Episode 8
Graeme and Kristian discuss the future of Deontay Wilder in light of his knockout defeat to Tyson Fury last Saturday.
Watch live on TalkinFight.com or YouTube.com/c/TalkinFight
#boxing #deontaywilder #talkinfight #boxen247
Transcribed:
[ Music, ], [, Music, ], [, Music, ], hello, there, boxing fans around the world.
Thank you for joining us once again, as we see more and more headlines across the world related to the heavyweights.
In light of the fury and wilder fight this past weekend, i got ta say it’s great for boxing it’s great for the sport uh, but the issue has been raised and i’ll.
Tell you what i’m reading uh that caught my attention.
Uh should wilder be facing this guy.
Should the typical array should he be facing joshua shouldn’t be facing music? Should it be facing white – and i say to myself, should he be facing anyone and the reason i say this is because he got into the sport as a teenager working at the time.
I think he was flipping pancakes at a local pancake shop and at the end of the day he got into it because he got his girlfriend pregnant and they were told by the medical community that their daughter would be born.
Uh with a pretty rare, uh spinal disorder that whereby she wouldn’t be able to walk and he’d he’d, be incurring an awful lot of medical bills to fix it, so he got into the sport of boxing because of his daughter, okay, flash forward quite a few years.
His daughter has had those surgeries when she was a baby.
She could walk.
She can do cartwheels, apparently she’s a bright young, lady and now wilder’s sitting on a few million quid, and does he really need to box anymore? And my answer to our question: is he should retire? His time is done, he’s done his job out the ring.
You go, let some young guys move in there.
You go there’s my intro.
Yes, he should retire.
Maybe, but maybe not it’s um.
A very good question.
Now a lot has been made in the only headline, because i’m just behind with a few things at the moment, but there’s been something that’s been uh that i have seen in the very quick flick around the headlines, and that is that uh he’s been handed a Six-Month uh sus, you know uh sentence off of boxing because of the concussive knockout.
Well, what have you really fought within six months anyway? No, nobody really would have uh, especially on the back of a loss like that.
You know just reminds me of it’s going off key um, but it’s it’s like when uh canelo was given a six-month suspension for the the drug use or whatever was he gon na? Really, you know did that affect him? You know he wouldn’t have fought within six months anyway back to deontay.
No, he wouldn’t off um.
You know and, as you said, with all the the fantasy matchups that are being made, these are doing the rounds and a quick look.
We’Ve decided what to do today, and you know it is wilder and fury which is the the main topic.
Uh give it a few more days, and i think the cantaloupe fight will start kicking a bit more and the questions will start raising with that.
But um yeah should he fight again he’s 35 um? I think it is especially when you get hard fights the concussive knockout at the end of the career as much as 35 is still relatively young physiologically.
It won’t do him very good as a boxer at all.
This is the kind of fight or fight, should i say the past two anyway, which ruined careers as such.
This um, you know a concussive knockout can take and seriously affect the punch resistance.
Will it may would it take him from somebody that could take a punch? Well, as demonstrated to somebody that um, you know will be chinny at that point.
Maybe maybe not he’s got six months off.
He needs to repair literally anyway, um legacy wise.
You know compared to other boxes in the past, with their careers, you’ve got the usual um.
A record where they go undefeated for so long, maybe a couple of blips on the way, but they they become champion the defenses they lose um.
At that point, you know they might have the rematch lose again to the same person then retire.
I think that is such a good way to leave the spawn um, at least if you don’t want to go out on a loss.
It’S kind of i understand when fighters take ten steps back and fight and nobody just to have a win at the end of the record, but unfortunately, public um are not as as lame uh.
They would not better have the wall pulled over their eyes with that.
One they realize it’s just a gim me and makes a difference, but that’s at the end of the record or not.
I think that, having two losses and in the manner of especially the last fight which was heroic and that close in a life or death fight with possibly the top fighter at the moment, would be a good uh time to hang up the gloves.
But unfortunately, because 35 is about you know at this point, you started to, you know be regarded as at the endish of the career um, and i know that he will not want to go out uh the the sport, with the two losses to fury.
I’Ve got a funny feeling that he will be back um.
You know it’s from a legacy point.
He it’s a funny one, because if you look at his career there were no great names there.
I’M not saying that that doesn’t make him a bad fighter because um i really and i’ve always liked wilder and as a fighter, because i do like punches.
But if you look through the resume, there’s not too much there.
The lewis ortiz uh fight was a very good one and uh, and i would say that was the first one, because he did come back from some adversity.
The same thing with you know, fury three you’ve got two good wins there.
Take that away.
There is nothing on the record, i don’t think he’s really uh dodged anybody.
I know you had.
Supposedly there was some negotiations with wilder and aj at the time, and you had the aj camp, which was saying that beyonce did actually um uh not go ahead with a contract.
You had uh deontay, throwing the same stone at the aj camp as well.
Um.
That’S always gon na happen anyway.
I haven’t, there’s been nothing really consistent in the past with wilder that he has dodged anybody.
Um whites, possibly i i don’t know, but there’s nothing.
What i’m saying is you know some fighters, there’s always a little bit of something or some people can think that they dodge.
But there’s nothing like you haven’t got a serial dodger here.
Um is what i’m trying to say.
You know it’s not the case of turn down this turn down that turned out it that that was not the case but legacy wise.
He he’s not going to go down at all as an all-time great because of the the very weak record which he has.
Yes, he will go down as probably one of the the hardest one punch hitters in history um, but that is pretty much.
I think how he will be regarded apart from the memorable third fight, with fury so back to the uh.
The question: should he retire? Health-Wise.
Absolutely money in the bank: he will relatively have his health intact and it is as such and would be a good time to go, but will it happen, i very much doubt it? Will it probably be announced shortly that um he will retire.
That wouldn’t surprise me, but if that is the case again on reflection when you know goes out in the wild, the wild world, and you see all the people slayed him and this and that he’s gon na look at himself.
You know 35 or 36 come that time, whatever even 37, and i think, regardless of all of this, he will be back in the ring chasing glory once again, uh.
That may be his desire um, but – and this is the issue his brain should make this decision.
Not his heart, and that is uh.
I agree completely that i believe he suffered a concussion in that last fight, if not in prior fights uh, but the reality of it is is, if you take a look at the concussion research in other sports, and there has been plenty done by a lot of Professional medical organizations concussions can happen with the slightest of bumps to the head, let alone a serious blow without any headgear.
So, given the fact, there are two types of concussion: if you will uh acute and chronic affecting short-term and long-term uh, you know not just whether he was knocked unconscious or not simply being hit in the head can cause a concussion and being hit in the head.
Repeatedly with such force, as was delivered by tyson fury, i would argue he had absolutely suffered a concussion now, funnily enough, if you go back uh through the headlines of a day gone by a couple of years ago, i’m pretty sure uh.
While they were saying he had delivered a concussion to tyson fury, so who knows what will happen in the future, but i certainly know if muhammad ali were alive right now, he’d be telling deande wilder to hang up the gloves while you’ve still got your sanity.
Well, i can still speak coherently.
That’S what i would argue, there’s a lot of research that i’ve done here in toronto, relative to a local brain institute, a group of professionals, medical doctors, neurologists who study the impact of uh injury in sport.
Specific head injuries, uh, specifically the effects of concussions and they are altering on many different levels.
So when you know it raises the question, if i were his advisor or in amongst his team of advisors, i would suggest to deante wilder hang up the gloves.
You’Ve made enough money, you can support your now.
Six kids uh, the one.
The daughter that got you into boxing is now taken taken care of.
You know: what more do you have to prove uh? Someone else might want to challenge you, but who cares at the end of the day, every single victory in his career that he can claim.
He knocked out every single opponent that he that he fought where he won fight and the only losses came against a man by name of fury.
So anyway, my point is, i concur.
I think he should retire but for health reasons.
Plainly in defense of wilder, obviously wilder and both fury is still the hot topic as such at the moment, not that i’ve been around on social media for the past couple of days.
But a lot of people now are jumping on this.
Making a big hallo blue about you know wilder to retire, and this big fuss is being made of it.
He’S 35 he’s been knocked out once hardest fight prior, but most boxing matches are hard fights.
The problem i have set here and bear in mind is the first thought i’ve actually given.
It is that, well, if people are, you know beating the drummer such for him to retire, not about all the other heavyweights that have had concussive and since uh serial concussive uh knockouts within their career, both recent and down the line based on that um.
You know he shouldn’t retire because of there is as somebody on the um.
The chat just said that you know he does beat the rest yeah.
He could well be, and it’s he’s you know it could be argued that he’s the second best out there.
You know he’s in the top five when it be the second third whatever, but you know it’s, i’m not going to be particularly picking on any uh boxer.
For any other reason, it’s just as an example.
Dillian white got completely clocked sparco by pavitkin.
I didn’t hear too many people at the time beating the drum about for him to retire, not remembering how old exactly white is, but he must be approaching mid-thirties, i’m only guessing a wild guess he’s probably what 33, who might be two or three years out, but You know he’s got to be around that that kind of age uh bear in mind.
He had been knocked out prior by joshua um.
That was a a good knockout, but the one against pogen was concussive.
Now all i could remember from the times that people weren’t really beating the same drum in the same manner as for wilder to retire with white.
You know people just more concerned with the rematch.
You could move on, i’m just going to try and pick some fighters out of the top 10.
At the moment, derek chizzora has been not cold.
He was not called by dillian white he’s had hard fights over the years.
Repeated hard fights.
People say that he’s speaking a little bit um, let me say, punch drunk if that’s the correct term, to use um yeah, it could be argued.
There’S other fighters over in the uk.
You’Ve got dave allen who was a sort of journeyman kind of not quite world level.
They say that he has been speaking a little bit punch drunk as well, but these fighters are continuing and there is no great outcry for either those two fighters, for example, to retire um evander hollyford got clocked out many times, um many many times he finally hung Up the gloves, what was his last fight – that was the friends both won in.
Excuse me, if i’m a couple of years wrong, it’s either 2000 or 2011, the last fight, but with the lead up to that he got knocked out a number of times.
Yet i just find it a little bit odd and i know this is the hard you know the the hot topic at the moment, but you know why is there this big outcry for wilder to retire? That was arguably, arguably a career best win in losing yes, but with the quality of the opposition.
Obviously, in fury that was possibly a career best, you know loss if you want to put it away, but a career best performance.
That’S the the correct word compared to the majority of the wins of his record again, you know the resume is not his fault.
He has faced everybody that was the as such, leading contender or contenders at the time.
Um, it’s just a weak division.
A week period uh at the moment and will be, i think, for a while, before everything settles before the people at the end of their uh, the career of such have long gone and the up and comers are up and at the top um you know.
That’S that is a few years away.
Um.
This now is a weak ish period compared to others, especially the 90s, for example the eight even compared to, i think the 80s um.
You know that was, you know, regarded as the the lost years after muhammad ali, but it was.
It was very uh emphasized as the last years, just because of obviously the lack of mohammed ali when he finally fought in 19.
What was that 1981? That’S obviously with trevor berbick um yeah because 80, it was larry holmes 81, with the trevor burwick um, you know, larry holmes was dominant um.
You had some good fighters, it was uh.
I know a lot of them were overweight and they were being criticized for that.
But then some fighters now can be criticized for that, and i know that the titles back then were changing a lot from you know person to person with the exception of larry holmes, because obviously he was champ from 79 to 85.
I do believe until running into michael spinks.
It’S with all these things in mind.
You know people you know, fighters have had lockouts.
I’Ve just never heard the outcry, like i’ve heard from the moment – and this was just a quick flick through social media she’d retire she’d retire, you know, he’s been suspended for six months, blah blah blah.
Well, you know you wouldn’t want to fight anyway for six months.
So why is there the the big halibu over that? I really do not know um curious but um, it’s a bit of a double-edged sword where that he could come back and he could do well in a perfect world.
He should retire because he’s got a lot of money, especially if the reports were true and i obviously got all the deductions, but he apparently made 40 million for that fight and that’s obviously near 40 million in dollars.
So a lot of money, regardless he is, and his family are set up for life um having a couple of losses just at your career, especially to the as such number one at the moment is no uh hardship whatsoever.
You know it would be a perfect time to retire, because it is expected of top elite fighters to have a couple of losses or more at their at the end of the career.
It would be a perfect time, but i can’t see it taking place.
I think he’ll be back.
I think he would just won’t want to retire on that note and assume this quickly said in the the chat that, yes, you could probably be the rest of them absolutely um.
There could be some good fights out there.
It’S one thing with how it’s going to affect him with that concussive knockout, looking at the past fighters, um physiologically how his body is going to respond to that very concussive.
Knockout is what possibly will be the question mark whether he’ll be able to physically match it with the others now, because he could go back and appear no different, just as good as before, but it just with not knowing that the for wins and outs of it Is if a concussive knockout, regardless of who you are, if it’s repeated? Yes, it could affect you, but a concussive knockout for one is not the same as the other, so how he is going to be affected with his punch resistance and everything else is not going to be deterred until if he does actually come back at that point, Absolutely no one in deonte wilder’s camp is going to admit to any of the symptoms of a concussion.
I think it’s the the travesty of boxing.
It’S probably one of the only sports that doesn’t talk about concussion openly.
I don’t think there are any protocols, for example, within any of the boxing commissions, as there are established in other sports.
If you, if you are displaying in the ring signs of like there, are clearly evident signs of a concussion in the ring and then there are signs of concussive injuries later on in the dressing room and then perhaps later on in the hospital.
Nonetheless, there are roughly 60 symptoms that can be identified for someone on someone’s behalf who has my who, who has might who has who might have suffered a concussion.
So in this particular case i would argue, a concussive blow is severe and impactful and dangerous, and should he continue for his own health? The answer would be.
No.
I just give you an example.
I mean.
Was he unconscious? No, but you know, did he have problems with his balance? Yes, did he have a glazed look in his eyes? Maybe the ref knew maybe the ref didn’t.
Does he have amnesia? I don’t know uh, but you know he’s you know.
Was he delayed in his responses to questions being asked of him by the referee at the time? Who knows i mean at the end of the day we don’t we fans watching the fights as they progress.
Don’T know these questions, but the other question would be: are the actual refs qualified to determine whether or not someone has suffered a serious concussive blow to the head? And, quite frankly, any doctor will argue any bloat of the head is concussive.
That’S when your brain moves around inside the skull and it’s not very apparent, they may not become apparent until years later, like i said there are chronic concussions and there are acute concussions where the symptoms are easily recognizable day of, and then, where you have a chronic Condition which leads to, for example, parkinson’s, just for example, so so, as i said earlier, i mean i’m 99 positive.
If muhammad you were alive today, he would tell deonte wilder to hang up the gloves.
You know spend the rest of his life enjoying his his family and his time away from boxing or even open up a a chain of gyms, i’m pretty sure uh.
There must be hundreds of uh, if not thousands of people in america, who’d want to train uh under his brand.
There are plenty of ways to make money.
I mean he doesn’t just have to go into the ring uh to continue his legacy if he, if he thinks he has one, but but you know just for his health alone, i would say now: stop it.
Man get up the ring, just a slight correction.
To earlier on, when i used dylan uh white, as the example of you know, there wasn’t such a big hell of blue over him, getting knocked out being fair in that first baguette confined.
He was completely boss in the fight, for you know it looked easy but then got the knockout with the fury fight the third one.
It was a hard hard draining physical battle stay to the office here, followed by that concussive blow um.
The fight before was an absolute beat down and how he’s going to uh come back from that is and how he’s going to be affected.
Like i said earlier, you don’t know until he is back, you know you don’t find out in the gym.
I mean with muhammad ali he should have retired.
You know uh many many many times, but unfortunately okay.
Actually, this is a bad example, because sometimes there he wasn’t actually good in the gym.
There were some awful reports uh coming back in the the training camps before his last uh, two three fights but um.
You know you don’t know until the fighter really comes back um you know.
Fighters generally are the last people to know when the best time to retire is and and muhammad ali.
I guess that he would give the advice uh that to retire if he was alive, you know, hopefully that would be based on.
I know this is a little hypothetical but looking back at his career, because muhammad ali did go way way way beyond you know the point of you know: should he retire, he should have retired after the uh, the third fight with joe frazier, because that was a Killer to both of them, and that did uh affect them in either fighter after that third fight, they were never the same muhammad ali after that, literally just pondered against weak opposition uh in the second half of the 70s um to the point of losing to uh Leon spinks, who was literally a eights uh, was eight fight novice.
That was either the ninth fight with eight behind him, or he had seven behind him with, and that was the eighth fight, but either all by one fight and somebody who actually was very limited.
He got beat by him, okay, he he got better embossed the return, but everything was you know, retired again, come back against uh larry hummes in 1980, which should have never happened, took extreme diuretics even to the point of uh moments before the bout uh to keep The weight down coming in weighing in that was it 217 for the larry holmes, fight, um or just awful, and then is the last person that has such a good example of somebody that went on too late, even if he was never ever ever knocked out.
But he had draining fight after training fight and that that the thriller manila, the third fight, finished him and both joe frazier off um back to wilder.
You know he’s going to be the last person uh who you know ultimately absolutely he’s going to be the person.
That’S going to make the decision um boxers generally make, i think the wrong ones.
I mean the the best.
I think that the best example of somebody retiring at the right time never coming back lennox lewis, all day he won he scraped through against vitaly klitschko, but you know he knew he wasn’t right.
He wasn’t, he didn’t come in.
You know in great shape.
I know it can be argued that he was there.
If i remember right, he was um originally fighting.
He was scheduled to find.
I think it was uh, not kevin johnson.
It was um.
Let me come back to in a moment.
You know there are a couple of you know: uh changes.
He was also in the oceans, 11 um filming as well.
Um came in out of shape, but he knew regardless.
You know in that fight that he wasn’t um uh performing at his best and if there would have been a rematch with vitaly bear in mind, he was improving and then up and coming fighter at that point you know he he would have lost the rematch.
He retired and stayed retired, perfect and again moving this over to wilder.
It would be a perfect time, but there is more possibly uh in the the tank as such, whether he can ever be the same again.
For me, that is the question um, but yes, it would be a good time.
I could only just sound repetitive at that point: um, it’s not going to happen because you know if you start, you know really laying into the world that he should retire and all the rest of it there’s something the other.
There are more that are still active at a top level which have had harder fights and more um devastating knockouts than he then, while wilder did actually, you know, have you know saturday just gone um.
You know dylan white one example, as i said, uh derek chizora who’s had a few and many hard fights.
These are the kind of fighters at this point which uh should be retired.
You know derek chizora.
The only problem is, he is not even what he was, but he’s still managing to put up gutsy performances time and time again, even if he’s on this very slow decline um, i could never see him retiring.
I know he’s coming up against uh parker in their rematch soon, but you know he visibly um or should i say audibly is, is not the same? Um he’s not you look at any kind of interview now compared to you know a number of years ago.
It’S not the same speech um.
Unfortunately, you know this is the bad side of boxing.
He should retire because give him ten years after retirement.
I don’t think he’s going to be in a good state, certainly to uh.
Listen to you know there are others um, but should he great time and just my conclusion, is he going to no if he does he’ll be back little crystal balls out again? Let me just uh throw this into the mix, then, as in other sports uh, barring a lack of uh concussion protocols.
Let’S just say: should there be in boxing whether a player’s association or even a medical association, someone who has authority over the commissions and certainly over boxers to make that decision on their behalf if they were given baseline testing and couldn’t meet that baseline prior to entering The ring, perhaps they should be stopped from boxing whether well, i would argue permanently – and there are many examples in many other sports, where athletes are stopped from performing what they love.
What they’ve been training for their entire lives? How they make a living has been stopped by a third party uh intervening on their behalf on because of health reasons um.
If we, if we want you to continue fighting you’ll, have to do so under these conditions.
Uh, but you know this: it’s it’s an unspoken thing, the concussion that is in boxing, and there aren’t many people who support a greater analysis or admitting that a third party would have jurisdiction over stopping a fighter from fighting.
It’S probably a very combative argument.
I would imagine in the in the upper echelons the ruling class of boxing yeah, there should be something i think worldwide, overseeing all the individual, worldwide commissions, etc.
Um.
For this reason, and many others as well, it’s been harped on in the uk a lot because there’s been neither string of awful decisions over here like in other countries as well and, like i said in the previous uh podcast, it’s like you know.
I know it’s going off uh topic slightly, but i’ve come straight back to that.
You know if you had the the the bad uh string of decisions over here.
You know with uk now becoming the new germany how germany was in the 90s with the awful decisions that went on over there.
You know fighters were petrified to go over there with health and safety with the various commissions um.
You know as long as they take the the basic um entries to you know continue boxing um.
I think personally, that it is not enough.
Each commission does vary with what they do and don’t allow, especially in america, because in the uk you’ve just got the british box and border control where in america, you’ve got all the uh all the various states in america with each state in america.
Being you know, the requirements uh and the level of checking is completely different and the best example i will use of that is avanda hollyford as much as in the end, it was put back after going from exhibition to pro fight to exhibition.
I’Ve got my own theory as to why it’s reversed.
In the end, you know you couldn’t get hollyfield passed in one state, so they changed the venue to florida so that florida, who are less checks, weaker checks or accept acceptor backhander, then gave the hollyfield fight a uh a thumbs up for a pro fight.
To the point of you know, wasn’t just news or fake news or speculation uh.
It was all point.
I’D double check this because it’s difficult to report on it is it isn’t it i held back, checked on box wreck.
Yes, it had been put as uh.
You know a professional fight uh, it’s funny and the next day, that’s like.
Actually, no, it was uh.
Just an exhibition is that, because there are some poor performances and an outcry over 57 year old hollyfield getting knocked out so easily, who shouldn’t have been fighting left alone in an exhibition, let alone in a professional bout.
And that is why i think, the next day it came out.
Oh no! No! No! It’S just an exhibition because of the amount of flack the florida commission would have taken for that disgusting disgusting thumbs up to allow evander holyfield to fight in a pro fight at 57.
.
There should be some over ruling worldwide commission.
I do believe the usual setup with different.
You know: uh commission, that’s made up, will say one from each country, whatever that can override you know the various commissions etc.
It’S something needs to be done at some point, because that was horrifying um a few weeks ago with that hollyford fight, you know that could have been somebody else there that um landed a concussive blow on a 57 year old hollyford, let alone a ufc fighter.
That was not particularly that good, well, not good, but relatively speaking, which is the words right here: um, not a top notch pro fighter that could have easily been uh pro boxer and, admittedly maybe you know it was a a an older pro boxer, but somebody if They were to retain something with some kind of punch, a proper pro boxer punch on hollyfield.
It would have been disastrous with all these different things that you’re hearing.
I just think there should be an overall in government body worldwide that has the uh way of being able to overrule it absolute because the problem is, is that even in america, where sorry, even in the uk, where you’ve got the british boxing border control, it was Like again, i know it’s off topic slightly, but you had david haye versus director zora.
Now this fight happened in 2013 uh.
What happened is the british boxing border control did not sanction it for various reasons.
So the promoter frank warren, went to the god.
It was a dutch or belgium, or something some commission elsewhere to come into the uk to uh cover the the about.
It was actually apparently the reports where they did a good job and all the medical stuff were at hand.
It was.
It was very well done.
Obviously there was nothing bad happened that, but this you know my point is, is that you know there’s ways always around it.
So it needs to be not just a governing body and all sounding very good, whatever uh it wouldn’t never have been sanctioned by which fight was that.
So just look at the chat now said it would never been sanctioned by a bishop boxing border control.
Well, if that’s the david haye versus derek jezora fight, it was the reason being was, i think, was because of the outrage that came from the uh aftermath of uh klitschko what he forges aura.
You had god someone was glassed david haye had a bot in his hand and thumped somebody.
It was all a big color blue.
It was awful bad press.
British boxing border control uh didn’t sanction.
It like it was something like some fetilux boxing commission um came into.
Overall and that’s just the problem with any of this, because in theory it could be all good, you can have somebody come in, they can be.
You know it could all look good on paper, but as soon as somebody really really wants something to happen, there will be a loophole and it has to be somehow absolute um authority over it.
Otherwise, money talks um, you know like with their van hollyfield.
You know that would have never, as correctly said by carla, do believe that never would happen in the uk.
There wouldn’t have been, for example, you know, let’s try and shift it over to a uk fighter.
Somebody around the same kind of age can’t remember how uh old ledex lewis is, but you know, let’s let’s say roughly i don’t know, he’s got to be early 50s or something uh might even be approaching hollyford’s age.
But if he applied now to fight somebody, i could never imagine in a month or sunday’s, the british boxing border control sanctioning that belt never never never got a lot of problems with them.
It’S just the opinion.
Some people love them.
I think they do an absolutely awful job um, because there’s a lot of things where, as such inverted brackets, money talks absolutely uh and that should never take the place of um health safety etc, and there’s been something recent here with a fighter over here.
That’S on the back of two defeats or on the back of a defeat.
He went for a british uh title over here, and one of their rules is that, if you, you cannot have a loss on your last fight and be able to fight for a british title.
That’S been the case and has been the case for a long long time, yet it got overall because of i don’t know money talks.
Maybe it certainly looks that way.
So i’m gon na be careful with my words.
You know they all say one thing and there’s always one rule for one and one rule for the others.
We could be here.
I think for for a long time, picking apart these sanctioning bodies with what they do or don’t do uh going back to the health and safety.
You know if somebody qualifies for the thought.
The florida commission that was disgusting and uh bear in mind.
Holyfield is, is my favorite fighter of all time.
Um it’s 57 come on, never never, never um! You know, there’s a right side.
I think of you know.
Where do you set the uh the limit? Well, it’s sometimes it’s very difficult, and this is just purely personal, not based on anything whatsoever, and this is just plucking out of thin air.
It’S as if for me, you should have 50 should be defined in line, but then people can argue 100 seconds.
Bernard hopkins fought into his 50s and was very good okay, so you cannot do it on a flat age because everybody physiologically is different at that age and all of them have had a different career.
After that point, you know, bernard hopkins was well preserved, so he was able to do that.
The difference with hollyfield is that he did actually fight way too long anyway.
He should have retired early 2000s.
You know you, you had the top flight losses.
He was in decline against lewis.
You then had a points decision to larry donald.
He then had him being knocked out by james tony in that the fight after that you know – and it was just slowly – slowly slowed down from there.
You know, after the james tony, that should have been the nail in the coffin way too old way too whatever, and that was what 2003.
If i remember right, you know he went on to 2011 and was back in the ring in a professional fight until they changed it the next day in 2021.
What the hell really don’t get it one rule for one one for the other.
It would have to be absolute.
Yes, there should be a governing body that will could be absolute over the whole thing worldwide, but there’s always ways around it back to wilder um.
He will go through the necessary checks, i guess and i’m sure he will.
Probably i don’t necessarily pick up something on a brain scan.
They’Ll, probably pick uh, probably given a thumbs up.
I you know again.
I could see him back in the ring.
Do you think he’d be back or do you think he will retire? I think he’ll be back, but i hope he retires.
If you want to take a look at a an international governing body, look no further than the international olympic committee and when it comes to banned substances, they have a hard and fast rule, and you take the aiba right.
So i think the last olympics, i think, was the badminton association that was controlling uh boxing at the olympics.
I think anyway, but uh.
But anyway, there you go so there’s an example where you know: if an athlete is found with bands banned substances in his body or her body, they are literally banned from performing uh, and the olympic committee has the right to do so and pull the plug on Any uh athletic performance if they are cheating, so i’m just simply there’s nothing to do with cheating.
Obviously, but if your body cannot take a blow to the head uh, if your brain might suffer an injury that quite frankly, is life-threatening who right now – and you said it – i mean that these guys are all able to pay people off quite frankly, um, but should There not be a health related governing body that steps in says it doesn’t matter what the governing body or organization or committee says that fellow or that girl cannot fight because she or he has had.
I don’t know three brain injuries in the past two years.
Whatever and then that is, i don’t know some kind of baseline, they need to set uh that stops a fighter from fighting.
Why uh to save their life yeah? Well, you know, with wilder receive in six months, is not a long.
He should receive something like 12 months, let his body repair, let the brain settle after that.
Knockout then go back.
Six months is nothing because even if he continued and there was no suspension in there um – you know he would be back probably six months – eight months anyway, uh these silly bands are just like, as if it’s just yeah, we just got to do it.
So we seem to be doing the right thing and we would give the band, and so it’s as such, you know, slope your shoulder over the decision over to somebody else.
You know, we’ve done our part, we give the ban.
What’S the point, what is the point of that um? I think we should talk about drugs uh another day because of that is uh, a real good topic, how that gets abused and bans, and one rule for one one: wolf, the other.
That is good one for for another day, um, that’s the point in six months, really um! He should be given any fight.
Sorry, not he any fighter should be given a 12 month ban to save them from themselves and i think as well.
It gives them more time to have.
You know some some form of hindsight to realistically put everything in the place, because i do believe that at the moment you know you’re, you know if we, you know it’s funny yesterday, where, because of the emotions, there’s great fight, we loved the great fight.
It was fantastic one of the best of all world fury, one of the best ever here.
You know upon reflectionism hindsight.
Actually, no, you know the decision, i think or mice, on my opinion had changed and i think with how wilder would be.
I mean wilder would know now whether he’s going to continue or not, and i think if he allowed everything to calm down and say he was off for 12 months.
I think he would be able to make a more constructive, less emotional decision to whether he would actually continue or not.
He knows, if he’s fighting or not, i think they should be.
You know it is up to the fighter unless there’s something damn in that is there in black and white, that you will die or you will have xyz happen if you fight again, but i just think that some form of like a year it allows them, at Least, to make um it could never be the right or wrong or could never be the perfect one, but certainly a more calculated, less emotional decision.
He knows, if he’s fighting again, you know everyone’s talking about it.
People are saying that it probably beat everyone out there.
Maybe not you sick correctly, put in the chat there, absolutely um! You know he’s still at the moment unless there’s anything uh bad, that’s come from the fight he’s still the you know.
Second third, fourth best in the world and would be the majority regardless um, but that even if that is still the case, i think that sometimes you know well, it’s just a good.
It is a good time.
I mean it’s very easy from the sofa chair whatever to say they should retire.
They shouldn’t retire you’re, not the one in it um, but my god, what a good time uh to retire and it’s a shame there’s not more fighters like lennox lewis.
Yes, not everybody can retire with lennox, lewis’s money or wilder’s.
I mean you know what his caring earnings up to the last fight.
I don’t know what they were, but he was a multi-millionaire set up for life and he’s just been um, bolstered by was 40 million.
After expenses and all the rest of it, he probably cleared 25 million from that, probably just as a rough guess well have that just plonked into your uh bank account lovely um, you know it’s.
It would be a perfect time for him to sail off into the sunset but uh the more i’m thinking about it, the more i think he definitely definitely will be back.
He knows whether he’s fighting again uh look for him to return um.
I don’t think he you know he will return against soft opposition.
I think you’re happy what you i think.
What you’re gon na see here is where you’ve got the merry-go-round at the top.
You’Ve now got the good old situation that we’ve covered in depth with white versus wall in the winner, then fights or should fight fury, but then again you’ve got the uh usic aj rematch, and then that person should really fight fury regardless, but then you’ve got the Joe joyce who’s, the mandatory blah blah blah blah.
It’S all up in the air.
Certain fighters are locked into what is going to be happening next and i think you’ll find that wilder will take the pickings of just what is below that um, and that would be a good test.
You know going in, let’s say, for example, um it’s not going to happen, but i’m just using it as an example.
If there was always something like wilder versus fury, um four announced wow.
What no? That would be the wrong fight.
You don’t assume in with the tomato ken like a lot of his defenses, because it’s not going to show how he’s been affected by this.
You know the last two draining fights finished off by a absolute uh blasting of a knockout um.
You want to go into a a near top line heavyweight to gauge, and that is, if not now, which i deem the best best possible time to retire at least go in, assess how well you do um, because sometimes fighters do do that and they land up Losing against fighters that they only should have you know blasted away earlier, but going in with a tomato can prove nothing.
He should go in with one of the top guys that are frozen out of what is happening at the top, and somebody like that should be.
I know it shouldn’t happen, because i know that, for example, um joe joyce should be fighting because he is now the mandatory for the wbo, but somebody like joe joyce is going to be frozen out twiddling their thumbs.
They should be at the you know, fighting at the top, but they won’t be they’re going to be paid off.
Wilder should go in with somebody like that, and i can actually see that happening.
If he steps back in opposition, it will prove nothing and i think, um respect for him will go downhill.
He’S gained.
A lot of you know, uh praise for what he did.
Shem it’s been now marred by was it slippery canvas? You said earlier: wet canvas, yeah um, wait for any others um.
You know i i do like wilder um.
I do think you know you just went crazy with all the excuses.
I think one was possibly just my words right valid but was completely watered down by the absolute um trash which he brought up every excuse under the sun just clasping at anything.
Okay, but please don’t do that wilder because of he would lose what he’s gained by his gallant performance in with fury uh, both fights in a way, because as much as it was a beat down in that second fight, he still stood there and took it all Until mark breeland rightly threw in the towel um, i think he’ll be back and because it’s the first time, i’ve actually given a thought – and i think you’ll see him in with a joe joyce or possibly depending what happens with white and walling.
That that kind of scenario, just under what is going on at the top and with these people you know, would he be dillian, wyatt or walling.
Absolutely joe joyce question mark, but i think the funny thing with joe joyce is, i think, he’s a question mark with anybody because of um.
How could i put this in the simplest way? He looks bloody, awful but he’s bloody, effective and, as i said to you yesterday, he could be the dark horse in the the current mix, but it’s i’m just afraid for a little bit of shame.
But i think it is a shame that the dark horse is not going to be given his opportunity shot whatever at the right time, because he is not young um and he’s gon na reach his peak, and even if he’s i mean he might be physically, not As a boxer but physically just as a person, he could be now over the hill now uh, regardless how he performs in the future.
It won’t be as good as possibly how he fights now and it’s just a shame that he’s not going to be given a shot at his peak um.
I still think he could be the dark horse, but see wilder and with somebody like him uh, just under the the top merry-go-round of what is still continuing to happen at the top of the tree.
Um, only time will tell let’s see what happens with white versus warling aj versus uh usyk in the rematch etc.
Um, it’s still clogged up.
It’S still, no clearer wilder do retire.
It won’t happen, find a decent opponent, engage and make a decision accordingly.
Enough said wow.
So yeah, i see we’re just opening yeah.
No, no! I i think, uh.
If i think about this a little bit more, i wonder if there was a boxing union whereby it protected the retired interests of boxers, for example, just for example, nothing.
There should be there’s no pension for them.
There’S no, nothing! There should be amended, oh god.
This is another discussion, but there should be some kind of pension fund because it’s a horrible thing with boxes because it paints them as uh, okay, dimwitted, whatever or thick or something because of and unfortunately a lot of them don’t get.
I mean bo amount of money.
He won and look at how much he hasn’t got now right.
Another example, thomas hearns he’s got he’s worth.
What is it? Uh 30 000 he’s worth i’d hate to guess at what his ring earnings were: um, kirkland lang, uh, that’s a different story, we’ll approach that another day, there’s nothing! There’S no pensions set up.
There’S a lot of fighters that have heard millions of vendor hollyfield uh.
I’Ve got that one on kids, child support, um, okay, there’s a different story: um there there’s so many that haven’t got.
You know pensions.
There has so many that haven’t that haven’t that haven’t many things, and i just think that i do think that the governing bodies should be.
You know overseeing this as well, and this is worldwide because i know of no – and i i stand to be corrected with this, but i know of no pension kind of set up with any commission organization, boxing related anywhere in the world.
I’Ve not heard of it.
It’S been talked about so many times what the standing block is.
I really don’t know.
Um there’s been so many attempts by various fighters or sort of ex-fighters in the past and recently as well, um but they’ve just come to know a veil.
I just don’t know where the stumbling block is for getting something like this sorted out.
You know uh one percent of something invested on behalf of the fighters from their earnings.
Bearing in mind you know, okay, this is a double-edged sword again because of it could be argued that well a honda second, a fighter when he gets his purse.
You’Ve got this deduction that deduction this three percent commissions, blah blah blah and world titles and whatever.
Maybe it’s just oh we’re further money off of them well hold on a second, it’s actually for their future, but yet that’s just something else again that should be looked after by the commissions.
It’S it’s not a good state.
Yes, health has been, or the immediate health ringside.
After all, the atrocities with gerald mclennan and a long list of fighters where it wasn’t handled correctly, has led to worldwide better medical, but that’s on the spot.
There still appears to be black holes and they should be taken more of a decision, um and different approaches with the health worldwide and whether fighters should fight or not, etc, and just again full circle back to hollyfield, perfect example.
To the point of that fight was embarrassing to the point of the florida commission, the next they said.
Oh no, it wasn’t a professional fight.
That is ridiculous because they did give the all clear for that um.
That’S pathetic! That’S awful, but that is the state of boxing in some countries where you can go to a different part and then get done by somebody else: backhander.
Yes, professional fight, awful um, but no wild wilder.
I don’t think he’s in that state, yet um good time to retire, no um he’ll be back and uh at least find a good opponent to be able to judge how good he is don’t go into tomato camp because what’s gon na do is give him a False uh idea of what he could or should be doing um you know, go in what’s up why go in with somebody and blow them out first round weld us back yeah, but how is he going to be how how is he going to respond after those Two draining fights and they were training, fights um.
Yes and the rest is history we’ll see, but wilder knows he knows.
If he’s continuing, i can’t imagine if anybody says oh he’s having a good thing at the moment.
No way you know he knows, if he’s fighting again yeah absolutely i mean my my thought regarding the union and uh retirement had something to do with one of the comments.
Uh courtesy of our chatters there with respect to journeyman, i mean the reason journeymen literally are fighting to the death.
The reason boxers are literally fighting to the death is because they have no other option, so if they had the option to retire gracefully, you know pridefully by saying hey, my doctor says i should retire.
At least they would have a pension to fall back on, and that’s why i was raising that issue.
It doesn’t apply to wilder he’s, got more than enough money to take care of his family and his medical bills, but all i’m saying is he should retire because of what happened in his last fight.
Specifically, the blows of the head are too much uh and i’m no doctor, but i can recognize elemental, concussive symptoms and he was displaying them.
So was i in the dressing room after could i speak to him? Could i see whether he’s responding appropriately no but would have anyone admit to that? No so uh will we see him in the ring again likely, should he be seen in the ring again? I don’t think so.
That’S just my opinion, though i know, we’ve only got literally literally a couple of minutes.
You can see there’s a couple of comments just about to cam dubois.
This is because of somebody mentioned sanchez with joe joyce um yeah, the funny one.
That fight was um, disappointing sanchez looks all right, but i think that was very much effie losing that then sanchez winning it uh.
I think all that proved is that sanchez and he’s gon na go up a couple of notches in the rankings.
You should be putting you, you know with who’s using bolt or somebody because he could certainly run quickly, but i just think that i think that just put a black mark against effie and dropped down, that’s one sort of ticked off.
You know the possible people out.
There are going to be the next up-and-comers um yeah.
But no, i don’t know about everybody else, but i do think joe joyce is so funny because when he’s when he turned pro it was against uh uh the uk, and if i remember right, it was ian lewison.
I think he washed him doing some.
Whatever was the first fight, it was a reasonable.
You know british english level fighter that was on his debut he’s very good, but just looks awful, but it’s just effective and nothing else so far could have been uh asked of him.
Apart from just a great a better style, but then again you know the same thing was said about george foreman back in the day when muhammad ali used to call him the mummy.
That’S what people said about joe joyce b.
Certainly, winning and under the opposition is um.
Okay, glossy at first grants uh glance but um lacking because they’re all over the hill, but then that’s the case with a lot of people at my their records he’s doing what he’s doing and winning with everyone.
That’S been put in front of him and he hasn’t dodged.
Anyone he’s doing well so far again.
I just think it could be the dark horse.
You never know um, but is he gon na get his shot with himself at the behind of his career? That’S not gon na happen.
That’S it i’ll! Leave you there because uh you’re gon na have a rapid turnaround and i need to uh sort out what is happening on the world of boxing because i am way behind, but right yes until monday, then, when i’ll see you next excellent discussion thanks very much, i Appreciate it, yeah cheers have a good weekend.
Thank you.
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