AIR DATE: Oct 18 2021 08:53UTC
EPISODE: Episode 9
Mike Tyson vs current heavyweights: who would win? | Boxen247 with Kristian | Talkin Fight
From one Tyson to another, Graeme and Kristian talk about how Mike Tyson would fair against the current heavyweight champions and contenders.
According to ESPN, they said in 2007: “It is sadly true that many heavyweight fights have been disappointing, lumbering affairs, but the big men have also provided some of boxing’s most startling moments. Here is a look at 10 heavyweight hitters who have provided some of those moments.
1. Mike Tyson
2. Sonny Liston
3. Joe Louis
4. George Foreman
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Earnie Shavers
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Joe Frazier
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Max Baer
Graham Houston is the American editor of Boxing Monthly and writes for FightWriter.com.”
These are the 10 best heavyweights today, as ranked by www.furyjoshua.com: https://www.sportinglife.com/boxing/news/ranking-the-heavyweights/182264
#TalkinFight #Boxen247 #MikeTyson
Watch live on TalkinFight.com and more episodes on YouTube.com/c/TalkinFight
@Boxen247 TV @Talkin’ Fight: Boxing
Watch live on TalkinFight.com and more episodes on YouTube.com/c/TalkinFight
[ Music, ], [, Music, ], hello, there, boxing fans around the world.
Thank you for joining us once again for another great discussion featuring christian from boxing247.
com across the pond, to myself, graham from talk and fight and a whole new week, whole new issue to deal with, and today we’re going to have a chit chat about mike tyson and Uh, if you were to go up, i’m assuming in this prime, if you were to go up against someone today in the heavyweight division, how would he fare? Let me start you off everyone by giving you a quote a little paragraph from espn they’ll just set the tone for this discussion for six rounds.
The peak mike tyson was possibly the most devastating fighter ever seen.
Although trainer don turner once reminded us after six rounds, he isn’t the same at his best tyson combined speed and power.
Often he was right on the other man before your before the poor fellow quite knew what was happening, such as when he crushed marvis frasier in 30 seconds.
It also helped that tyson intimidated many of his opponents to the point that they were ready to be knocked out before a punch was thrown michael spinks alex stewart and bruce selden in particular, when tyson knocked out spanx in 91 seconds in 1988, he truly looked unbeatable, Prompting the remark from sugary leonard, he was so destructive.
He should be locked up veteran reporter ken jones wrote in the british daily, the independent that tyson quote came to the ring with all the determination and pent up energy that has helped establish to him, as perhaps the most intimidating force ever seen in boxing and by The way of the top 10 heavyweights of all time listed by espn mike tyson is in fact number one.
Now i do have a list uh according to a reputable website, with respect to who they consider are the top 10 heavyweights right now.
So maybe christian before you might begin to have any comments on this.
Maybe i can just roll through that quick list for us this just so we’re talking about you sure we’re not showing any bias uh at all whatsoever.
Let me just uh read off the list: it’s a courtesy of sportinglife.
com and their top 10 by the way does not include robert hellinius, philip pirkovic people of that ilk.
His top their top 10 include number 10 frank sanchez, michael hunter, joseph parker, joe joyce, andy ruiz, jr, dillian, white deonte wilder, who comes now in at number four anthony joshua, alexander yusick, tyson fury topping the list so christian.
I put this back into your hands now, where do we start in his prime tyson, fury, uh, sorry, okay, his prize was very very short, very, very short.
It was um.
Let me just suggest the mic.
I’Ve showed up automatically for some reason: okay, his prime is very short, and that was uh 1985 to 1988.
Obviously, the sphinx um 91 second blowout, and after that he didn’t do as well.
So the peak finished there and his peak was probably one or two fights before when he won the title against trevor berbick.
Now with what espn said where they said he’s the most destructive fighter or best fighter.
Whatever the words were, you said for the first six rounds.
I agree with that, but i have to add for the second six rounds as well.
Um absolutely stand by that and i will argue this point to on very red or blue in the face later on.
The second point is when you were meant mentioning some of the names um as you were, going through the the top ten.
As that was seen, i was just cringing.
I was just cringing and cringing until the time you mentioned deontay wilder once the caliber just comes up a little bit from the aforementioned sanchez, andy ruiz, jr, etc.
Up until then um.
What i could think of was this blowout blow out.
No chance no hope blow out as per what we saw with mike tyson in his peak with every single fight bar up until um, the james buster douglas loss uh.
Only up until that point four had gone the distance with tyson.
Now i think tyson is the best fighter ever hawk sorry shock horror.
A lot of people will be scoffing at the idea.
But again the first point, i’m just going to say again: um is at his peak now.
The problem is, i have here a lot of people when they discuss the top 10 or when they discuss mike tyson.
They tend to bring up fights, oh yes, but when he fought evan to hollyfield and or when this happened or when that happened.
You know this was all in after 1990 or after 1988, when he was clearly past his peak.
You know as soon as he uh beat michael spinks in 91 seconds.
He had two fights after that now.
The first fight was against uh frank bruno, which he won in the fifth round and arguably um bruno gave him the biggest tussle scare.
He caught tyson in the first round that he had to back up and frank bruno did sort of try and unload, but it didn’t come too much else, but it was a spirited effort, um that was probably one of the biggest chances um that anybody stood up Until that point, and because his trainer kevin rooney was out of the picture, who was there since day? One? And you know the second point after that was a 93 second blowout, which was against carl, the truth, williams r.
After that, you had the 1990 tokyo loss to james buster douglas now, the tyson we call it 2.
0, which was after the loss that fighter up until oh god, you had how many fights did he have before he went down uh inside for the rape conviction.
You had the return match, which was against former amateur foe, um henry tillman.
You then had the um by the way he was meant to fight hollyfield for the second time, i’m sorry uh for the first time, but it was the second attempt to actually make the fight which got cancelled.
It was actually announced, but shortly after it got it got cancelled in came razer ruddock, who did actually very well edit but again, razer ruddick and who i did you know hope or should i say hold – is one of the best fighters in that era he went.
I think it was seven rounds uh with a controversial stoppage in their first fight, and it was a spirited effort in the rematch that went the 12 rounds as well.
But that raised a radic that get put in a good effort and did reasonably well against tyson.
Um pre his um decline again wouldn’t stood very long.
Absolutely, and i stand by this and even more the case when you had.
Obviously, then tyson went into uh prison for the desiree washington rape case.
He came out and that was tyson version 3.
0 um and that fighter still had some quick wins.
Like bruce eldon um, he knocked out regained the title.
Uh you had one off of bruce eldon.
You had the rematch with uh bruno, which lasted only three rounds, this time, um.
That is a greatly declined tyson, and it is a shame that a lot of people use examples from that state or that part of his career and pit that, against whichever fighter in time when that fighter, especially you know, 3.
0 was clearly in decline.
You know people used to say that.
Well, if you you know, people do say that if he doesn’t get you out in, you know a short period of time, then the aggressive bully gets bullied.
Well, no, you know in his peak.
When did that happen? Not one fighter was able to do that.
It was just a case.
It’S not the case of whether they could put any stiff resistance on the tires, and this is a case of whether they could put any form of resistance and, prior to prior to his uh defeat, was jonesbuster douglas.
You had uh championship belts, which went the distance.
There was two of them, which was tony tucker and bonecrusher smith.
Prior to that, you had um mitch bloodgreen and you had, i think, much mitch.
Blood green was the first.
Was he the first one to get a distance is either that nor is james, quick tillis, it’s one of those two which is the first one, but there was four in total up until um his loss first loss um that tyson would have steamrolled.
I think anybody um and there’s no way that the example i hear it time and time again or read it time and time again as well, that if it doesn’t get you out there quickly, you’ve got no chance where there’s no evidence in in tyson version 1.
0 To support that whatsoever over to you, graham well, so i’m going i’m going through the list of current heavyweights and – and i assume when you said the best fighter ever – i assume you’re talking about heavy weights or are you talking pound-for-pound in all weight classes? Oh, i’m sorry heavyweight to be clear on that one.
Absolutely the rage in tyson who was quick had a good defense who had a good chin who was one of the hardest punchers in history.
I am saying every single bo box was ticked at that point.
That is, there is not one area in his arsenal, apart from being short at five foot, ten, where there was any you know, everything was a an a-plus.
Everything was that, and there was nothing and on our lark at this point with anybody.
There is nothing at all.
There was no evidence against any fighter to say that um he was a bully that would run out of ideas or gas or anything past.
Uh, the you know the sixth round, there’s nothing to support, then whatsoever.
It’S only went into his.
He was in decline that this started to happen and it was a big decline, but the problem is: is that where he was the youngest heavyweight champion at age 20, when he won it in was in november 1986 construct, he was only 20 years old, and so A lot of people because of in his decline, he was still in his mid-20s late 20s, and this is people are assuming that that he’s his peaks.
You know still the peak because they look at the age when it wasn’t.
He was way way way past his best through um training through motivation through inactivity when his three and a half years in prison through completely abusing his body after uh kevin rooney, was taken out of the corner and pitted them in, and it’s there’s only a few Which, i would say would stand a chance and that’s when you were, for example, when you were counted down the top tens and you got to deontay wilder.
It comes to deonte wilder it’s the case of.
Could he land um a lucky punch with the power that he did have now? One thing that made me well given us a little bit of thought earlier.
I was thinking well, okay, let’s just move on to tyson.
This is why i came, i suggested you know mike tyson for today’s, because everyone is talking tassel, fury, tassel first, i thought okay mike tyson.
Why not? That is, he is only one of possibly two or three fighters that would have stood a chance, but it’s a case of as we’re speaking to the other day, which fury this heavier tank of a six foot.
Nine object that seemingly can’t be moved or if it gets moved, it certainly goes back to where it was prior or if it was the masterful six foot nine boxer that beat klitschko over in germany now out of the two options there.
I think the one that actually would have stood the best or the the best chance in you know in winning would be the one that was able to move and out box and keep at range, and that fighter is the first one, the one that had that Was masterful with all the faints the roles, the the movement and six foot? Nine, with the the reach with the he would cause anybody a problem and out of everybody out there.
I think he’s the only one in that carnation as such, which would have caused a problem for mike tyson, because of you know he could keep at range if he could steal enough rounds um.
You know land and you know here to not get hit.
Then he could possibly win the fight, the heavier one as much as he’s a supposedly now an immovable object.
I just think that he would be more of a sitting duck at that point as much as yes.
Tyson did struggle more with taller fighters um, but he still didn’t lose at his peak against taller fighters, but the tyson now doesn’t move as quick as he did against klitschko um that just for me, uh says one thing all over it, which is target and a Target that will not move in the same way.
Tyson would land.
Whether i don’t think tyson would knock him out because if he had him down, fury gets up, but certainly i think it would be a mark tyson victory, but uh the one which went against klitschko that i think out of everybody in history, i think, is the One um, and certainly that version of him is the only one that would have stood a chance moving on to other fighters of of the the current crop.
Now that the you know the the top of the tree, you know the anthony joshua’s, the u6 anybody else.
I just think it just would have been a tyson victory.
I cannot, i cannot see any other way whatsoever.
Yes, he’s my favorite heavyweight fight, no he’s not actually my favorite heavyweight fighter because van der hollyfield and michael spinks, but that’s what you said.
I do respect the fact that in that short peak in that three-year period, unstoppable the best he had enough strength to mix it with the modern heavyweights.
Now, even if the weight was low at his average weight at its peak was about 216 to 17.
I just can’t i cannot see any other way unless lucky punch from a big puncher like wilder, because i can only assume that uh tyson’s best guess confusion.
He’S got the two tysons mike tyson’s chin uh was never tested in his peak.
You know he got caught a handful of times, but that’s about it.
There was nothing again that was shown to prove that he couldn’t take a punch or get up if he was punched, where tyson fury has demonstrated that at least if he does go down, he does get back up um.
You know he’s not going to knock out tyson, but that first carnation is the only one from a current crop that would stand a chance.
None none of them.
Nobody else at all would have stood a chance.
Just my feelings, my view on it um might be a little bit blinkered, but i think it is way blinker by other people, that when you look at tyson now and it’s as i said the other day that i got drawn into it – wasn’t the hype.
It was just i was thinking emotionally when, oh, my god, you know um that’s a few of the best ever god who would have beaten him.
I did watch the first time the other day, a replay of the third fight as great as it was, and what you know, one of one of the best slugfest heavyweights, you know fights, that’s ever happened, that’s going to go up there in the top 10.
For sure the skill level, the speed that wasn’t taking place, the open targets that i was looking at that would be made available for somebody, a sharp shooter that ticks every box like tyson would have got them.
Okay, uh wilder out of their fury points for verdict over to you.
I know very, very stubborn with that, and you know i did have changed my stance since the other day but um when you look at the skill level tyson with the way he moves with the way he throws the punches now compared to against klitschko version, one.
If you want to put it that way completely different and you he needs yes, he uh.
We had a good one too, but he was very good with that.
He was just two different fighters and i think this weight thing whether he with tyson fury whether he has to state that weight, because that is how his body has reacted after the three and a half years off, and he has to keep it at that weight.
For his body to adjust and to be optimal without being completely drained after losing all that weight, whether he has to be like that with every other fighter.
Now i don’t know all this huge weight was um, designed to purely um over to be able to overpower to manhandle um wilder now wilder’s out the way, i’m curious to see what wait fury would come in for somebody else like anthony joshua or a usyk, or Even a dillian white right, yeah we’re very curious yeah that that does make this next year very interesting.
So i’m kind of curious, then just from a fantasy level here back to the future scenario, if you were to take back a 21 year old from today, so so put any anyone in this current crop or even current aged crop.
So so my example would be.
I would take back in time uh jared anderson, who’s 21.
I think unbeaten and is big and powerful, and i really like the way he boxes.
I would take him back if i was to fly back to the future if you will and land in mike tyson’s ring.
That’S the boxer.
I’D take with me quite frankly, how about you um the only one uh of now would be uh fury, but the one which was the unboxing yeah, absolutely version, one he’s the only one i’ll take back and depending who he was fighting from the past.
Then that’s with what weight i would as such if it was the imaginary trainer, whatever i’d want him to come in at you know, i’m just curious to see how fury’s weight now goes because it looked like when he was down at a lower weight after the Three and a half years! So when you look at the the first um wilder fight or the tom shorts fight, even if you did win that in the fourth round or where you had the um.
What? Although what in the fight um [ Music ], you know that was a very close fight, but you know, according to uh, you know his father, um john fury, apparently tyson.
He said that he was too weak and this is why ben davidson was taken out.
The corner with the rest of it he looked good, but he wasn’t strong enough right, and i think that is purely just because – and i do believe this higher weight is going to have to be kept off now, because it’s how his body has adjusted having lost The eight stone whatever after the three and a half years, if you take it back to what you were, it is a strain in your body too much.
This is something for example, where, if you take ricky hatton and somebody else that blows up between fights, you know he had to keep coming back down to the same weight unless he was going to find a different division, and you know his his body weakened.
He was out the ring, he came back, he had um one fight and he was stopped by somebody which was not a heavy puncher, but the body couldn’t take the weight loss.
You know as an optimum premium fighter.
He wasn’t able to do that now, fury because he’s heavyweight was great because he went down to that weight.
It appears that that wasn’t a successful weight.
He came up in weight and now you know he’s put weight on the bulk.
Whatever you want to call it.
I mean he seems to be a completely different fighter right, um, not a boxer anymore, but um a slugger.
I won’t, i still don’t think he’s a puncher.
It’S not that kind of fighter.
Now he’s more of a slugger.
It’S clubbing shots, but the way he just you know in the the second wilder fight the way that he, the you know the punches were coming around – are just completely different.
I’Ve never seen the fury the first incarnation of him.
I’Ve never seen him fight or throw punches in that way before and to the layman.
It looks like less skill, and it’s just you know, he’s scrapping his way through effective, obviously with wilder for three fights you know very effective with with two of them uh.
I think that’s his weight now, but um just coming away from that.
The lie lighter tyson, the first um i’ll just say the clitch, for example, he’s the only one there’s nobody else at all that i would dare take back back in time with mike tyson.
Other other fighters that were champions yes, because you know if you went with i’m just going to go full extreme here, went in with the rocky marciano right or joey louie.
Who was probably you know, you’re 187 pounds.
You know up to 190.
You wouldn’t need to put on that bulk, like he did with wilder to manhandling, because at that point you got to outweigh them by over 100 pounds as much as it would be good.
It would be unnecessary um.
I wouldn’t like to see that, because you know his speed has been affected.
Everything’S been affected in this uh new way of his, and it is the weight, that’s done it because he did have sorry.
I will choose my words right here.
He did appear to have the speed and reflexes and everything in his first was a couple of fights.
I know it wasn’t good test.
The first one was an absolute joke, but you know three and a half years out.
The ring the second one limited opposition um, but he still appeared there to be quick he’s in the corner and he was dodging the punches.
You know it’s like ali versus michael doakes, where he’s in the corner.
You know the one in the video intro.
Where he’s there dodging dodging and then he was his backside and you know he’s just missing the punches tyson fury did a version of that in his second find um.
I think tyson as mike tyson would just be just too much too much um.
He would land against the i’ve just repeated myself.
He would land in three years if he landed, if he’s able to land he’ll.
Take you out of there.
Um i’ll argue the toss of such with anybody about this, and it does it’s a little bit frustrating when it’s a frustrating wrong word whatever.
When you listen to somebody say, and they used examples – oh yeah, when he thought, like you, know, lennox lewis, you know he was taking that.
Was it the seventh round or something um, but yeah.
That was two thousand.
That was two thousand nothing or two thousand and one um.
He was way way way past his best uh, whether it be, but he was in that fight purely for the money that was it um.
You know he was very heavy unnecessarily because he was past his best.
He would, unless he was only ever put back with um his original trainer um, who was sacked straight after the michael spinks fight actually in the ring as well.
The news coming from don king um, you know that that fighter was was long, gone um.
You have to judge if you’re going to judge you know and mike tyson fairly.
It’S got to be just before couple of fights before winning the title and through to the michael spinks blowout, and the problem is, is that you had the two fights after that.
Like i said earlier, the bruno fight was actually caught in the first round.
He was past his best at that point bruno prior to that when he got caught that wouldn’t have gone five rounds, the next fight where he was fighting carla truth williams.
Now this one was people say: oh yeah yeah, but that was a quick blowout 93 seconds.
Okay, carl williams, r.
p was notably or notoriously chinny, but up until the point of getting caught and put on his backside before uh, the ref waved it off.
He was landing.
Actually he was doing well against tyson because tyson.
That point was past his best all bad examples.
He had a three-year peak, keep it to that.
That is the only way and the only fair way and uh to gauge how well he would have done against anybody else.
I don’t know why people do you know they use examples and it’d, be god.
10 12 up to 15 years past is best unfair.
One of the interesting comments uh you made last week, um, which came up in our weekend.
Discussions not yours in mind, but with some of the other chaps.
Basically, in a nutshell, you’d said the impact of tyson fury and his size might in fact change uh the heavyweight division going forward where we might now start to see taller, bigger men fighting as as not just a rule of thumb, but in general.
So, anyway, on the weekend there was in fact a six foot: nine heavyweight uh fighter, going up against a 315 pound heavyweight fighter uh.
Now i can’t remember the names i didn’t, google it before the show, but uh i don’t know what card they were on uh.
It might have been the garcia card, but i’m not sure, but the point matter is, is i thought wow isn’t that interesting? We were just talking about that.
The other day about how the impact of a tyson fury’s size, like both his height and weight, might impact the direction of the heavyweight division and take a look at that literally a couple of nights later on saturday night, two nights ago, there you had it uh A six foot nine fighter going toe to toe against a 315 pound tank, so i do think they should introduce a super heavyweight division.
I don’t think it’s quite right with adding the weight division lower down, for example, with the with the wbc, where they brought in obviously the bridger weight originally 200 to 224.
It’S at the wrong end because, yes, it’s taking out some of the lighter ones at that end against the heavy ones, but they’re all getting heavier, we’ll get them bigger, uh, we’ll get them bigger.
You can end up having 224 against 300 pounders.
That’S still too big a gap.
You’Ve got to have some kind of heavy weight should be 200 to maybe 250 or something above that is a should be.
There should be a super heavyweight division.
You know it’s weird because going back in time, if you go back to the 80s big was regarded as six foot.
Four crusher huge fighter, six foot, four tony tucker, six foot, four huge fighter.
That was it there was nobody else up until that point.
That was even on top tier level of that kind of height.
It was unheard of you know, you then had lennox lewis come along and it wasn’t until and i’m sure i’ve missed a fight in history or something, but it wasn’t until you had vladimir klitschko at six foot, six and vitale.
Who was six foot? Seven that all this changed with the size they came along, they were assumed to be robotic, because this is why anybody that was near that way didn’t even venture into boxing because of they weren’t so athletic and they couldn’t move, but they were all the rest of It and the rest is history with those two, but seemingly after them being able to you know when they came on the scene in what was it 97, i think uh vladimir uh turned pro um.
Other ones just started to sort of like come around.
You know he had michael grant six foot nine, even if he was chinny, which is a shame because he was very athletic chap who lost to linux lewis um in the first round.
But he was six foot nine.
He could move.
He had a good punch, athletic uh who’s got a basketball, obviously, but he just didn’t have a chin, unfortunately, but uh other than that he was a very good fighter, but all these big fighters started coming along and now six foot, six um give it a short Period of time, i think you’re completely right, they’re gon na be six foot, more six foot sevens and six foot nines and, yes, you know they’re big.
I just think that you know where you put the division.
How can you compare, let’s say, for example, down the line that they do, one in between, say the bridge of weight limit two to four to 250 and call it.
You know job joe blog’s weight whatever it’s it’s, it’s the wrong end of it because of by the term heavyweight.
If you have a heavy weight who’s averaging now, you know, or could do very soon, averaging around a 250 260 270 plus.
How can you compare them as fighters as heavyweights to any heavyweight as such in the past? You know when discussing heavyweights, how can you say you know uh, oh joey lou would have done well but hold a second joe lou is probably a light heavyweight now right.
Just completely different weights, rocky marciano had a great doesn’t matter what rocky you know rocky martial had.
He was light.
You know um muhammad ali as sorry as cassius clay fought between probably roughly 190 and 201 max.
I think he went up to uh and then went back down it just fluctuated.
He came back.
Obviously after three and a half years he was heavier, but it’s just they’re, not heavyweights, and a 190 cassius clay would not beat a 250 film uh 250 pound fighter.
That can move or punch to a certain degree.
I think that you know it’d be like a little insect round, something just flitting away, annoying until they’re able to land a punch.
I don’t think it would take an exceptional modern heavyweight to beat these so-called great heavyweights from the past, because they’re just not heavyweights yeah without a doubt.
I mean if you take a look just, for example, if you take a look at other sports and you, you brought up basketball, you can have any range of height and size, but they are all athletic and they’re all incredibly tall by the way.
But the same might be argued in american football as well.
You have some incredibly tall incredibly fast, incredibly athletic wide receivers in american football um.
You know so as sports all morph and change, i mean the one, as you were talking, the one sporting example that came into my tiny head was sumo and uh.
When you take a look at not that i follow it, not that i understand the rules, but you see that classic picture of the absolute be moth going up against the i don’t know: 200 pound guy.
He looks absolutely tiny and compared to anyway, they go up face to face against each other, because i don’t think there are any weight classes in sumo wrestling, but anyway just thought about that, as as you were talking, you know, with respected, introducing more weight divisions in Boxing, which i know there’s a lot of argument against the bridger and it’ll, be interesting to see how that goes, um, but uh kudos for them to putting that dividing line there, enabling i would think uh heavyweights to be truly classed as heavyweight, not knowing or not.
Anticipating, whenever they originally introduced that or began to discuss it originally, not knowing that a fellow like tyson fury would come along in their lifetime and and challenge what is considered heavyweight versus what might be considered a super heavyweight.
Well, the problem with the bridgewater is that the first thing is that the wbc should have talked to the other government bodies to see if they would follow suit, because right or wrong, you’ve got this new weight class, but none of the others are probably going to Follow suit right, so it’s just a now just a wbc thing, as opposed to something which is a generally regarded weight class yep.
The other thing is that you’re going to have, therefore you’re going to have out of shape old cruiserweights going for it or you’re, probably going to have and there’s only a few of them, the good heavyweights that are just over a light that you were able to Drop down so they could have been uh two to five and they could just drop down a little bit to reach the 224 um uh divide in line, obviously for for the uh the bridge weight.
There’S not many of them.
I know oscar rivas is fighting.
He was originally meant to be fighting brian jennings um for the first title jennings has come out.
I don’t even be honest with you hands up in here that have even heard of the other fighter who rivas is fighting now.
But the point is, if you look at the top 10 bridge await uh the the top 10 fighters, even to the point of adam babbage was recently might not be now, but he was at number six to me that says it all interesting in the world.
As a bridge away, it’s to be it’s going to be like how the cruiserweight was back in time when it first came out for a long period of time before it did actually actually sort itself out.
When you had people like carlos de leon, uh van hollyfield come along and sort it out, but it’s why hollyford was able to go through it hollyfield’s great fighter but so easily, because the talent there at that time was just they were just older, light heavyweights or Or heavyweights that had just failed and were able to knock off a few pounds and get down there and but generally, if the weight loss to get down to, as is the case now bridger weight um depending on how much it is? It’S not going to be good because this could affect punch resistance as it does to a fighter when they drop weight again an argument or discussion should i say i’ve had with many people, but you if anyone wants to take me up on the discussion with that.
Has any fighter gone from heavyweight to cruiserweight and been successful because there hasn’t been? Please find one, whoever there’s many that have that have gone down there and it’s one of the very good example of this actually – and i know we’re going off topic as such, but roy jones, you know, turned professional at uh light middleweight.
He won titles middleweight, super middleweight, light heavyweight, then jumped up missing cruiserweight and he successfully took the title off of john ruiz, but he then went from that instead of defending it, which was a good or bad thing um because they did cherry-pick the fighter right with That to to win the wba uh title, they did actually try and put a fight towards tyson of then with jones, which would have been interested because tyson at that point was way way way past his best, but no uh.
Instead of doing that and realized that hold on a second uh, john ruiz isn’t a typical heavyweight champion up here, he went back down to light heavyweight to fight antonio tava.
The first one was the disputed win for jones.
They had the rematch jones was knocked out in the second round.
If i remember right, it was very early and at that point he was knocked out repeatedly because the punch resistance had gone because he had moved down in weight now.
Somebody might argue that on a second, that’s somebody going up then back down, but i think it’s actually even worse for a career heavyweight anyway.
That’S that’s been at this point and even if they go down to cruiserweight, they are screwed politely and i there is not one fighter.
I know of at all that’s gone back down and been successful to any level.
Let alone won a title or mixed it with the best or no probably one um, one of the first ones.
That did it, i think, was uh leon, spinks um.
He didn’t do well um, where he would have been a very good uh cruiserweight, but he went up to heavyweight um.
It just screws.
You especially the older.
You are as well coming down um, you know you it.
It doesn’t work, it hasn’t, worked and won’t work with anybody, but that’s the bridge of weight and all that stuff out the way.
Now i stand by what i said mike tyson anybody in history, apart from tyson, fury the one against klitschko.
What is your views and what i’ve said there uh i’m thinking about what you’re saying with respect to the various weight divisions so um, i wasn’t in favor of and i’ve had this discussion on another panel with respect to the introduction of the bridge away.
Okay, because i i don’t think, there’s any interest, if you will in the subways anyway um my interest is uh.
You know i i like to see best of the best go toe-to-toe and have a great fight uh, my favorite fighters are among the heavyweights.
But let me just read you the opening paragraph of that espn article, where i quoted earlier the author describing mike tyson, but in his opening paragraph is this and it’s written by a fellow by name, graeme houston, it’s no secret! Why people love the heavyweights more than in any other division? There’S always the chance of a sudden and spectacular ending.
I mean how short and sweet is that in terms of describing why i love the heavyweights.
So if you’re going to introduce a super heavyweight class, i don’t mind that either because you’re more than likely going to see a sudden ending in any event, but i’m not in favor of introducing subclasses enabling heavier fighters to simply lose weight and go compete.
In a lesser division, for lack of a better description, if you’re going to challenge for a heavyweight championship, be a heavyweight and, as i inferred earlier with my sumo example, if you’re going, if you think, you’re a heavyweight and you can compete in a heavyweight, then be A heavyweight but i’m not in favor of people dropping down in their weight to compete.
No, i did not uh to compete, so our producers just chimed in and said sumo has weight classes.
So i i stand corrected, but i i wish we could put up the exam that is either big or bigger.
I think it’s well yeah.
I mean at the end of the day, if you, if you’re the, shall we say the smaller man and you think you can beat that bigger man that should be up to you really um in boxing, though different different uh.
Anyway, we have our.
If you will classic divisions and the most classic of all, the divisions is the heavyweight.
If you ask me – and i don’t like the introduction of a subclass in this case – the bridger weight – or i don’t – i’m not even a huge fan of the light heavyweight.
But anyway, uh, if you’re heavyweight, you’re heavyweight, i want to see heavyweights go toe-to-toe, that’s what i do enjoy i’ll admit it, but i don’t mind seeing other weight classes as well.
If it’s the best of the best, the spence and the crawford type tips, the canelos of the world, you know those kinds of fellows are in tip-top shape best in class and i don’t mind watching their fights, but when it comes to weight classes, uh no, i Mean but, as i see the the heavyweights moving up then maintain that class as heavyweight but introducing super heavyweight now and outside of the earth.
I have to think about that one.
It’S good enough for the uh, the uh amateur olympic system, super overweight.
Why not? The term professional when you go from super heavyweight to heavyweight and the heavyweight olympic fighter will then probably be a crucial weight or a light heavyweight um from the off.
It seems not right to me and and practice so you know just on the the outside.
Just from the off it looks wrong, but at the weight it’s going to be, you will see this.
It’S going to be out of shape or old, or fighters coming back cruiserweights coming into that division that could no longer of with the way their bodies were and the work ethic and everything else that you know weren’t able to make weight or if they did they’ll, Be completely drained, i’m going to come back and fight at this new weight.
I think that’s going to happen a heck of a lot um.
Yes, there’s going to be some small um heavyweights, for example, oscar rivas a case happened to drop to go down to there that shouldn’t affect him too much uh with um, no, because he was only a little bit heavier than that, but again no disrespect to alan Babich, but he is not, should not be a world rated number six at anything, but that, for me, from a skill level shows what the competition is like in this bridgewater division.
Yes over time, it changes because the cruiserweights first off was a bit of a bit of an odd one, but it’s soon sorted out as landed up being actually quite a good division.
I don’t think the the rest of them are going to follow um, and i don’t think personally.
In 10 years time you will have a bridge await.
You’Ll probably have heavyweight super heavyweight.
I think it’s just.
It seems the logical way to go because they are getting bigger, so i have to go well.
I have to put the division in lower when they’re getting bigger, so you you know so they’re bigger heavy weights, so you have super heavy weight as you do in the olympics.
It seems a no-brainer.
I can’t see why else they would do it.
At least you’d.
Be able to gauge a heavyweight now to a heavyweight 10 years ago, 20 years ago, right, maybe not rock solid point there christian.
That was good um you get one occasionally yeah, it’s and luckily just back to mike tyson.
Luckily, he was very strong for his low weight, because now, if he was fighting for a wbc title, it would be bridger, wait.
Um there’d, be nobody ever about resistance.
Take 30 years before that happens from that division, because it’s going to be a very significant.
If you look down, i have to look at the ratings again.
I’Ve only ever looked at it, i think once and it was just no good um and what you’re going to find that’s going to be counterproductive, is you’re going to have that because it’s no good.
The pay isn’t going to be that good, so the division, just with the wbc, isn’t going to attract anything or anybody with talent anyway um.
So it’s a bit of a double-edged sword there where it’s, i don’t think it’s gon na go anywhere very quickly unless they all do it um, which is, i don’t think gon na happen.
I think if they would have done it, they would have done it from the outset and i don’t think the rest of them are going to all right.
We’Re going to change our way to you know our weight system, because the wbc did really.
I can’t see them, i think they have to say face there anyway and sort of stop that, like i can see it being super heavyweight in the future because they seem to be getting bigger and bigger, and better and better at this bigger weight um.
You know you’ve had value a bad example, but he’s still at his seven foot was he seven foot one or seven foot, two whatever um he won just because he was big um, but he’s still bearing in mind how big he was.
He was still able to move better than a six foot – six person from maybe say 30 years ago, for example.
So what is changing? Because i know that where we’ve said on past videos that the training and the supplements – and you know everything else – is changing.
But how does it change? I don’t know this is where my lack of experiences is with.
You know, in the training in the whatever that enables such a big person to move better, there’s one thing being strong or this or that but they’re they’re moving um.
You know tyson fury, you know, is he an exceptional case that you’re never going to get again, or is this going to be a norm, maybe not now, but in the future curious to see which way it goes because um, you know tyson liked.
Uh tyson fury um, probably you know, bar maybe uh mike tyson, lennox lewis, maybe klitschko’s possibly, but have to be the right vladimir klitschko, for example, uh.
I know he’s already lost her.
You know tyson fury but uh.
You know, for example, the tyson fury have uh who’s heavier.
I don’t think would have beaten the klitschko or certainly klitschko in his prime.
After going with emmanuel stewart, maybe not maybe a close fight, who else you looking at? Obviously an actual choice to make a comparison with is going to be vitale.
Now that vitali klitschko versus tyson fury now would have been a great fight, and that is a fight height they’d just be both thrown.
God knows one of each other.
That is one fantasy fight.
If you know it is ever possible with computers in the the future to do it or whatever and i’m sure it will be, that would be one fight.
I would love to see who would win that i’ll, be honest with you, don’t know, but that would be a good fight with the two styles there with the way vitalik the fury.
Now that would have been a very uh, very good, find one of the uh one of the uh topics that we brought up on the friday night panel featuring tim witherspoon, was that the lack of trainers, qualified trainers that understand not only the traditional, shall we say Historic style of training, but also, if you meld that with today’s technology, that’s available and also uh the videos that are available compared to what was once available, which was nothing.
He was saying that there’s a terrible lack of really good trainers out there, given the number of boxers qualified boxers that are out there right now, and because we were talking about the training uh that went into the wilder versus fury fight and who were these guys At the end of the day, you know uh so anyway.
So it’s a topic i think, perhaps for another day but um.
You know that the trainers do have a lot to do with these six foot.
Nine fighters, who are now moving from sluggers to fighters to boxers.
Obviously – and i think tyson fury is a great example, and is he gon na set the tone now for a next generation of big big men who can fight and box jared anderson? He was too what was his weight the other day when he fought.
Was it two? No, he was 17 stone, so he’s up there with the bigger guys.
Now he could move and without repeating myself, because i said this the other day.
I know the fight of the day against the champions fighting.
It was limited opposition and was a stationary target, but it’s sometimes obviously not about who you fight but the way in which it was done, and he looked really good better with compared to some other fights.
I’Ve seen him in um, definitely one for the future, but yeah he’s going to come through how tall is he uh jared anderson? You got me on that.
One yeah, i’m not sure i mean he’s tall again, it’s going to be another tall, 17 stone fighter.
I’M going to take those boxes, it’s got to be around that uh around that mark.
You know, that’s another one! That’S going to come through they’re, all taller, moving hergovich actually remembered his name today.
Um sorry he’s only 6’4 short for today’s standards, but that would have been a big fighter if we go back to the 80s moving into the 90s yeah um.
But it’s as if now you know, no usic was an exception, but it’s as if you’ve got to be at least kind of sort of 6’3.
Now before you know to be having that big deficit, i know it doesn’t.
You know always work with how the reach is with the height, but generally the taller you are the bigger reach.
You’Re gon na have right.
You know it’s as if you’ve got to have a tall fighter to have the good reach to be able to mix it with the best now.
Otherwise, you’ve just got that that big deficit before power, skill and anything else comes into it.
You know reach the long levers and they all seemed to have it.
I mean hergovich is quite tall, i’m still not fully convinced with him.
Yet, though, i do wish him to uh to be a good fighter, because there’s similarities there with vitaly klitschko right now.
I don’t know if chin is going to be sorted out.
He actually hasn’t really fought anybody of any any stature, but they’re all coming through they’re, all bigger harder punching.
It is exciting times and i’m really i’m curious to see how it goes in the next 10.
20 years, i’d love to just flash forward just to see what they’re, like you know, probably turn out little five foot, ten um.
No, they they’re bigger, moving quicker, punching harder and certainly heavier my god um, but if, if tarsa, fury’s gon na fight next, i would love to know what weight he’s gon na come in at because i know with wilder three.
He had that sort of bag of milk physique where, but he was what 277 wasn’t he yes, his weight.
Now there was a few pounds over how he was in the wilder two fight um, but that didn’t to me just look like seven pounds worth of extra.
Whatever wibbling at the side, because those those handles not that you need to be a bodybuilder to be good at boxing, but what wait that was unnecessary that i think was possibly a not so good training camp um, because you have my views on that from what I heard obviously from inside there that it wasn’t harmonious, even if people were saying it was definitely wasn’t.
I think that’s why he came in at 277, because why not come in what you were before, because he was the man that was after wilder.
You know the one that was uh um, given the the short straw as such um.
That’S why he came in so good with the second one, but then a little bit more complacent for the third one um.
If he fights if he came in against either rusik or aj i’d love to know what i’m so curious about that i’d love to know what the um, what the idea and the plan is with his weight because weight it appears, does play a part in the Way, obviously, with weight comes training, but it does definitely prove a big thing within him as a fighter because of the time he struggled in his career, it’s been when his weight’s been heavier uh.
When he’s underestimated the fighter, or as you know, the story goes with fury that he moved from trainer to trainer to trainer before he settled down with uh peter his uncle.
You know his weight was all over the place.
He was one minute with this trainer with that trainer just wasn’t motivated.
There was all sorts of stores coming over and his weight reflected it from time to time.
Um you’d never want to come in, as it appears how he was.
You know in that first wilder fight, um, no curious.
The reason why i just say that, and the reason why i’m curious is to see effectively then so, if we call in fury now has fury version two for example, or version three actually, because he’s gone away, he’s come back, it wasn’t good.
So that was two.
So version three, this new heavier fury you know is that the weight that’s going to be here to stay, because if it is, then that will affect – and certainly in my world of how i see things, take it or leave it.
It’S got to affect how you know his performance against.
You know these fighters coming through if he ever does fight these fighters younger ones coming through, which i don’t think he is because i think you’re just gon na get the the the fight against you know.
Um aj or uh usyk um, and that will be him.
He will, you know, sail off into the sunset: have a tequila or 10 on the beach, as you said, um, and enjoy life um, knowing that you could probably come back over the next few years, and and do it all over again and probably win, but you’d, Probably maybe be able to do maybe his body’s already had that big strain and shock to the system.
Maybe he couldn’t do it again, um, but now the weight the weight is a key thing.
I’M so curious.
My guess is, is that he would come somewhere um.
Seven pounds like it was in in a world of two fight that appears to be his premium weight.
Now all things considered with everything that he has done uh, but he certainly wouldn’t want to come in now.
He was with this this extra seven pounds because as much as he got a good victory, it was a great fight and all the rest of it the same as wilder.
That was, i think it was two fighters, and this is why it gelled so well as well.
Is you had two fighters that weren’t actually at their best fury, was not the fury they saw in the second fight or the first fight or against klitschko whatever? I know the style is completely different, but he was slow.
The way he’s throwing his punches.
It was you compare the two, the two fights from three to two: it seems they’re completely different and it wasn’t as good wilder came in seven pounds, heavier.
The the stamina went very quickly, but it gelled and made a bloody good fight.
So you know um not.
I would have wanted that to be any different, but i certainly think that those two again if they’re fighting anybody else wilder certainly wants to go way back to what he was.
But again now he’s gone up in weight and every time somebody mentions yeah, you just need to go back to what he was and then go in with the likes of aj or or whoever, because they probably beat them all yes.
But how is his body going to react now? Bear in mind he’s 35 right, the older you are and when you drop back in weight and again i’ll discuss this with anybody, maybe it’s it’s we’ll get i’ll get some examples.
I can give you some of the top of my head, but really look into it, because nobody, nobody has been gone back in weight again, has been successful.
I think, if wilder went back to i mean, what’s he gon na have to knock off his his weight.
He was seven pounds more than how he was in the second one, but in the second fight he was something like a stone more than the first one wow.
So now, and it’s muscle as well.
It’S not just like a bit of extra around the the side that this needs to be sort of trained off.
He’S now got to lose if he does go down to what he was, which is the general consensus for everyone out there that needs.
You know for him to be able to do what he wants to do and keep in the mix and be as effective as he was he’s going to lose one and a half stone of muscle right.
That spells one thing to me: if that’s the case, whiskers will not be as good, and you will see a very quick end to his career and i think now that he’s in a bit of a situation, the more i think about it that he shot himself In the foot now and it’s as if he’s gone up in weight, he’s got to sort of hang around that weight.
So if that’s the case now, you’re going to know that uh wilder has got a gas at whatever stage so we’ve got to do.
Is the game plan is? Is he going there to take him into that second half into the deep waters, and you you see that uh well will uh gasp very quickly, as was the case with fury um he’s only going to gas quicker as coming into a fight where he’s got knocked Out after the fight before it was a heavy, beat down and he’s only getting older um going back to the conversation the other day, should he retire? Yes, i think now definitely with this um uh looming and what he’s got to do with his weight um.