80’s vs current heavyweights: who would win? | Boxen247 with Kristian | Talkin Fight

Following on from the 90’s versus today’s best, Graeme and Kristian today talk about how the great heavyweights of the 80’s would fair against the current heavyweight champions and contenders; according to SportBible the Top Ten now are:

#10 Michael Hunter
#9 Luiz Ortiz
#8 Joe Joyce
#7 Oleksandr Usyk
#6 Joseph Parker
#5 Andy Ruiz Jr
#4 Dillian Whyte
#3 Deontay Wilder
#2 Anthony Joshua
#1 Tyson Fury

According to The Gruelling Truth, the top ten heavyweight boxers of the 80’s are:

#10 Greg Page

#9 Trevor Berbick

#8 Evandor Holyfield

#7 Michael Spinks

#6 Gerrie Coetzee

#5 Pinklon Thomas

#4 Tim Witherspoon

#3 Mike Weaver

#2 Mike Tyson

#1 Larry Holmes

#boxing #talkinfight #lennoxlewis #boxen247
Watch live on TalkinFight.com or YouTube.com/c/TalkinFight

Transcribed:

[, Music, ], [, Music, ], [, Music, ], hello, boxing fans around the world and thank you once again for joining us for another, exciting episode on boxing 247 christian, how you doing pretty good you i’m doing quite well! Thank you.

Let me start today’s episode off with a little caveat.

We are talking about the 80s versus the current heavyweights and who would win well just for the benefit of you and the viewers uh the 80s for me were in fact the 80s.

I was in my roaring 20s, quite frankly, having graduated from university ending up in bermuda, a rock in the middle of the ocean, where my house did not have a television and then uh.

Coming back to canada enjoyed a career in the music industry and didn’t have any time for television, so my uh knowledge base here with respect to 80s fighters, with the exception of a couple names, is rather limited.

So how about this as a bit of a different angle, if you will um according to the grueling truth, there are 10 top 10 heavyweights from the 1980s that they they list.

And if you don’t mind, i will just read the introductory uh paragraph, which i think is a funny encapsulation quite frankly, and then we might move forward if you will um and discuss each of these fighters.

But i must rely on your memory, because mine is rather foggy from the 80s.

Let me begin by introducing the 80s for you, okay, i know what you’re thinking, why would you pick the heavyweights of the 1980s to rank? This is the era.

I grew up with sure they were not always the most action-packed fights, but you did have two all-time greats: dominate the division and you had a multitude of fighters who had unreal talent, guys like tony tubbs, jerry, cuny and greg page who, for whatever reason, fell? Well short of being all-time greats, almost all these guys problems were in their head, not all, but most so, let’s take a look at the top heavyweights of the 1980s and for the benefit of the viewers, compare them to uh today’s fighters and whether they had any Chance whatsoever number 10 on their list was greg page christian.

Are you familiar with greg page rip? Absolutely great page, sad story, absolutely r.

i.

p.

So do you want to uh suggest whether or not he would have i’ll tell you? Oh okay, you’re gon na we’re gon na go through and well i’ll.

Tell you down, i i’ll tell you.

I can either tell you who the 10 are all in a row or we can comment on each one as we go through them.

Okay, memories of greg page apart from um his untimely death, where his last probe out was again against a fighter called dale crow um.

He was ko’d uh.

There was a bleed on the brain.

Uh landed up for many years, um homebound being looked after by his.

I think it was his sister or was it wife, i think his sister.

I know general mclennan’s looked after his uh by her sister but um.

It went on for many years and he didn’t appear to be getting any worse.

There were some improvements, and whichever year it was, he died um.

That’S a sad story about him.

Now as a fighter, he did win the heavyweight championship.

I do believe once, but it was in this period of time in the heavyweights we’re going to exclude mike tyson.

He was champion from november 22 1986 and we’re going to um for the moment.

Um not talk about larry holmes, who was dominant through the 80s from 1978.

If i’m right that one against ken norton, very good fight, if you’ve never seen it uh.

I was just about to say the result, but ken norton larry holmes, one of the all-time great fights anyway.

Those two aside when you mentioned tony tubbs, you had pinclude thomas, you had greg page, you had all these fighters and it’s what they deemed the.

What was it the lost years where it was um regarded as lots of unmotivated heavyweights that were overweight, with the heavyweights crown being passed from one to the other, which in essence was true, but that was looking more from the 90s perspective from their point, where the 90S was very good as we now move on to the um, the naughties as they call it or into uh.

You know up to 20 20, 20 and now in 2021, that um top 10, which you’re about to read, including greg page, actually isn’t that bad.

He did his weight was an issue, as is going to be the case with many of the fighters we’re going to discuss today of the heavyweights in the 80s um he held it once.

I do believe um he lost it.

Was it the first defense um a little bit forgettable one of the uh culprits were handed around unmotivated, overweight, had potential went on for too long um and certainly didn’t reach their potential um, i’m sure most of these fighters, i’m going to say same applies to this One it’s pretty much uh a case with a good, probably 60, 70 percent of the fighters, i’m sure you’re about to mention greg page being one of them, but um sad story at the end of his uh career.

He went on fighting too long.

He went on as a aspiring partner for too long he uh famously.

I used that word knocked mike tyson down inspiring prior to his mike tyson’s first loss with um james buster douglas um.

He was aspiring partner for many years as well, but just the amount of blows to the head and that the one final fight with del crow was just finished.

The the brain off, there’s a bleed on the brain and the rest is a very sad history.

Just to spark your memory uh, according to his bio, he had win, and these are not men who will be mentioned in our top 10 list today, but he had wins over alfredo evangelista jimmy young and quick tillis.

So those are some names from the 80s who we might not, who might not make our top 10 list, but certainly are mentioned in terms of fighting.

In that era, number nine on the list: trevor burbick r.

i.

p um, killed by his nephew uh over an argument to do with land now burbik as i’m going to choose my words right here was apparently a not so nice person.

There was huge rifts with many heavyweights, especially a huge rift with larry holmes all the way through the 80s, because he did challenge for the heavyweight title with holmes.

He won sorry, he lost against homes on a unanimous decision over 15 rounds and but from then on, because it was a spirited effort, he chased holmes and chased and chased and tried every single tactic and it all led up to a confrontation in 1991, where larry Holmes at the end of the press conference for his first fight after returning against tim doc, anderson larry holmes running across the tops of the cars and doing a drop kick on trevor burbick, while police were at hand if you’ve never seen, nickram i’ve got it and I can send you a link, not staged, not anything.

It is shocking.

It is kind of wrestling, um kind of action style, but actually real, not scripted and certainly not a drama.

Well, it was actually a drama, but um.

It was definitely real.

Now he was heavyweight champion um, he did he make a defense, i don’t think so, but he lost it on november 22, 1986 against the one and only mike tyson um.

He went into that bout.

I think it was with two defeats.

He uh he was a capable heavyweight.

He was never out of a bad shape.

Um he gave homes a very good tussle for the heavyweight title prior to was it prior to that was this after, and he was famously got to use that word again known as the last person to beat muhammad ali in the bahamas in 1981.

I do believe november 1981.

I think it was.

He has the distinction of being the only man to be in the ring, with both uh muhammad ali larry holmes and mike tyson yeah.

That is the one.

Ah, a good address.

Absolutely yes, yeah good, a good adjective.

They use for berbick is rugged a rugged fighter right, yeah, rugged brawler.

He um can’t say a rugged brawler against tyson because he lost in the second round by ko famously flopping all over the place.

Remember the punch on the forward.

Yes – and it was a multiple knock down from the the one punch great coyote with tyson – it sparked off his uh reign of terror on heavyweight division, certainly at that level.

After that loss he was pretty much in and out of the scene.

He never challenged for a heavy white title again.

He lost in a couple of heavyweight title, eliminations, um and sort of kept around the kind of fringe level up until a sad, a very long decline, but saying that he did have some resurrection where he did win.

The canadian heavyweight title i do believe towards the end of his career, but it just slowly just fizzled away, but for one remember, there was no sharp decline in his career, at least, but yes, he held a couple of distinctions there and one very memorable ko will Certainly be in at the end of it, courtesy of mr i’m mike tyson right and coming in at number, eight, probably due to his uh late entry in the late 80s, but coming in at number, eight is evander holyfield your favorite fighter, yeah.

Apart from he wasn’t a heavyweight in the 80s, he was a cruiserweight right.

Yes, he he turned pro like heavyweight, uh cruiserweight.

He then turned pro in 1990.

I do believe uh if i’m wrong by a couple of months do apologize and his his heavyweight pro debut was against uh james, quick, tillis um beat until spartico in the fifth round um.

So with that he wasn’t an 80s heavyweight.

He was 90s all the way.

Um into 2000s, which really shouldn’t have happened, but uh no surprises included that because no he he didn’t turn into the heavyweight division.

I think it was a 1990, but james, quick tillis was the first heavyweight um fighter.

He fought, and that was a fifth round tko.

When was this fight against dokes, michael doakes, michael doakes was in 1991, i think it was that was because hollyfield he fought.

Let me think james quick tillis.

He fought pinkland thomas, which was thomas’s first fight after losing to mike tyson.

You had uh alex stewart when alex stewart was unbeaten.

You had the michael doakes fight, which, if you’ve seen that fight r.

i.

p michael doakes, brilliant fight, that was a 10th round stoppage for hollyfield, but that was with michael doakes, one of the forgotten lost years, heavyweight champions.

I don’t know if we’re going to mention him in a moment but um you know he.

Drugs got the better of michael doakes after much promise because he was a very skilled fighter.

Are we coming onto michael dukes at the moment because he should be in the top ten um, otherwise we’ll go absolutely.

That is a good replacement.

He put up a very spirited performance, but it was in the 90s that was, it was the 1991.

I do believe because it was um about three fights before he challenged um james buster douglas after he beat hollyfield.

Now he was very good, and the thing is is that he drugs killed the the version one of his career.

He then had a lot of time off doing drugs came back with manager, marty cohen, the old manager that uh bless him.

He used as a promoter.

He used to uh parade the perimeter of the ring actually in the ring, with red roses and famous famously for the third time, throwing them out to uh the ladies in the audience.

While this chap was in his eighties with a big stetson on his head, um dokes, he was brought back by um, mr cohen, and he did well.

There was a few you know the usual journeyman and blowovers, but the the first test for for dogs version two was against hollyfield.

Now as much as he lost.

He gained a lot of respect um in the fight with hollyfield, because as much as he lost by tko in the 10th round, i do believe you know it was back and forth all the way through the fight again, if you’ve not seen that it’s one of The ones top got 10 heavyweight fights, definitely to watch um after losing to hollyfield.

Obviously i know we’ve been venturing briefly into the the lions here because i said it’s about 91 1991.

um.

He had a couple of fights.

He lost to razer ruddock, courtesy of one of uh ruddock’s uh.

What do they call it? The smash that’s hybrid uppercut, stroke, whatever you want to call it hard punch, uh lost to dokes and then finally, somehow in 1993 challenged good old um riddick, both the heavyweight title being blown out in shockingly, not the first round, and it really stopped there.

But uh dukes died.

I do believe at age 52 um he landed up being clean, he got arrested, went back inside prison for a couple of years.

Came out, was completely straight um and yes died.

I mean he died early.

I think it’s 51 or 52.

There were so many heavyweights from around that period that died around that time.

Like cole, the truth, williams there’s a long list of them that died around 52 51 is really shocking.

It’S like the 27 club with singers from the 60s and 70s.

Now um.

You know it was wasted talent because he you know was quick.

He had power um, i mean.

Is it a 17 year old? I do believe it was.

He was 17 or 18 when he had that uh famous exhibition with muhammad ali, the one in the intro to this video where ali is against the ropes and he’s avoiding the punches stokes, was telling what 18.

I think it was still an amateur at the time.

Hadn’T turned over and as much as yes at that particular point with ali in the corner, um, not laying a punch in him, the rest of it.

You know he he showed good promise and as a heavyweight he was quick.

He was powerful, he just wasted it.

All because sydney’s won the championship that was it straight head first into drugs and uh [ __ ] about i’m sure like um somebody else we discussed yesterday and um lost the title in his first defense.

I think if i remember right the one the title from um, let me remember it was a ko i think, against mike weave or something like in the 13th round and then did it defend it once, but it went on points and then lost.

It only lost it to jerry cooney from south africa um, but no shame there was so much more from him.

There were so many years lost because he came back version two overweight.

He had this stomach that as much as he was training hard.

He just couldn’t shift uh.

The abuse was there, hence why he died in his early 50s, but no shame that was big wasted talent because he could have been dominant.

I think if it was taken seriously upon winning the championship, the 80s have lessons for all of us for sure.

Even to this day.

Yes, mr morrison didn’t learn about his dick and about with yeah, because michael jokes was one for drugs and women.

Of course, tommy morrison was all about drugs and women right, but a huge amount.

I mean uh yeah, that’s that’s two huge playboys that uh should be still with us now, but sadly not.

These are some of the intangibles anyway number seven on our list of great heavyweights from the 80s michael spinks, oh one of my favorite fighters now speaks out four fights at heavyweights.

He was dominant light heavyweight um.

He was actually the middleweight gold olympics in the 1978 olympics, 76.

76.

Sorry, yes, 76, um, middleweight and his brother leon won light heavyweight.

Now he turned pro won the light heavyweight title and unified it, which was unheard of back then last fight against drei, mohammed cowie, or was known at the time as dry braxton.

Now then sphinx ventured into the heavyweight division and went straight in.

I do believe.

I think it was 1985 um could have been 86.

85 went straight in with larry holmes.

Now holmes was even at 35 or 36 was overwhelming favorite, even if his skills were fading um, but he absolutely shocked holmes and won a 15-round unanimous decision snapping the record of holmes which stood at that time as 47.

I know if i’m right, because he would have equaled marciano’s um record of 48 anno if he was successful in this fight, which he was not now holmes did force the rematch.

There was no rematch clause, spinks obliged um.

This fight holmes did actually train um sensibly.

He took the challenger spinx seriously and it was a much harder fight, even that spinks down in the second to last round.

I do believe now that fight was a split decision with sphinx winning, which was uh.

I think that’s the one where uh holmes said in the post-fight interview, which ruffled a lot of people, which is why a lot of people or some people remember larry holmes as uh.

No because he said the famous fourth time uh comments, which was he wouldn’t carry uh with uh.

This was in respect to rocky marciano.

He wouldn’t be able to carry my jock strap and at that point a lot of people turned off from larry holmes, even if uh he did retire at that point, come back lost to uh tyson in 88 and four rounds then came back in 91 as discussed.

The other day against tim doc, anderson who’s in prison.

Now for killing a boxing promoter, rick parker wow, but um there were other fights heavyweight, because that was one two you had uh.

Stefan tanks did so there would have been five fights at heavyweight.

So the two fights of larry holmes then had stefan tanks dead, which he won.

I think it was the fifth round.

Stephen tankstead was european level.

He was norwegian, even if um boxing was actually banned in norway at the time he had to train and do everything over in the us um.

It was a routine knockout um.

You know it was purely just a rugged heavyweight european level.

Sphinx dispatched him.

He then had the big fight where sphinx was actually the underdog against jerry cooney, jerry cooney, coming back after the loss to larry holmes back in 1983.

.

Now, with the fight um spinx was all over him uh up until i think it was a ko in the seventh round great fight uh.

It was very much one of these fights where you had the big guy versus the small guy and a small guy being quicker land in many punches with cooney.

Trying to you know, land his trademark, powerful hooks, which he didn’t do much of.

Hence the defeat, but with that sphinx was put into the 1988 fight with larry with mike tyson, came in even heavier which took away it’s pretty much like the wilder fury thing where sphinx came in heavier, which took away some of the advantage in speed that he May have had what a lot of people were saying he had that gave him.

You know a bit of a chance against tyson, because tyson at that point wasn’t regarded.

You know, still small testing.

What’S he going to do against an unbeaten quick fighter like sphinx, even if it wasn’t light heavyweight, but spinx, unfortunately, was dispatched in 89 seconds um? Why so quick as much as he’s one of my favorite fighters? He i thought he was going to go longer but lose eventually.

The problem is that michael spinks was a notorious slow, starter and mike tyson was a notorious fast starter put the two together and you get 89 seconds at that point.

After payday of 9 million michael spinks abruptly abruptly retired um and for some reason, has managed to like many boxes, mismanage their finances and have not much left at all, how he’s got his health intact he’s very happy? He goes to all the events in america.

Uh he’s been inducted to in the hall of fame, et cetera, et cetera as one of the best light heavyweights ever which he will be regarded as but um with.

Just before mentioned firefights at heavyweight uh finishing with the uh the belt with tyson um.

I use always used to think why did spinx retire at that point and why he didn’t drop back in weight of years? It’S a question i wanted to put to him, but, having seen more fighters go up in weight than go back in weights, i can see exactly the reason why he didn’t, or it may not have been the reason why he didn’t, but if he did, it would Have been catastrophic, because fighters cannot go up in weight and go back down in weight successfully, especially towards the end of their career, but it was um.

I think that’s a good place for him as a heavyweight.

I possibly would have had him a bit higher because, apart from the tyson blowout which tyson would have done to i’d, say against anybody in a short peak between 85 and 88 um, you know everyone else, larry holmes, yes towards the i supposed to say towards the End of his career, but holmes went on for for ages up until the age of 52 and his last fight was in 2000.

um.

Okay, that was like at a slightly lower level but um.

You know he he still went through at a decent level.

You know going twice for the heavyweight championship, whatever um it was a good win, then for spinks or two wins over homes.

Um, you know.

Tanks dead, european, jerry cooney only had one knockout loss.

You know it was um short, but uh.

It was a reasonable career.

So i would have personally had him slightly heavy, not because he’s one of my favorite fighters, because i like him as a light heavyweight but uh yeah, very good fighter.

Shame that it was a combination, as i said before, with you know, he sort of come here to head with tyson and come off um a very much second best.

I mean that’s, that’s one thing that uh we often overlook is the the very volatile nature of the 80s themselves, because you had different fighters coming into the 80s uh than exiting out of the 80s and here’s a great example: number six jerry cowetzi out of uh South africa number six, yes, jerry, coutinho yeah cootsie there we are that’s the goods here, yeah wins over michael doakes, quick tell us! Yes, he he had supposedly the bionic hand.

Um people in britain will remember jerry coutilla uh, losing beard of mine.

Kudzu was um at the end of his career, but he lost to frank bruno uh in one round knocked through the ropes flattened his back and um, not looking at a very good state at all.

But he was he two-time heavyweight champion, but he was one where it was at the beginning of the 80s, where he won a portion of it losing it and not retaining it in in good fashion.

But again he was you know it’s one of these.

As they said, the the last year’s heavyweights um.

His conditioning sometimes was a little bit left, [ Music ] for much desire, um and, as was the case, he came in before one last payday, with frank bruno over here in the uk, uh but capable fighter, but he was a hard-punched naturally strong guy and he Was he had the nickname of the the bionic hand, because he had some metal rods, uh put in his hand when he had broken it or something, whether that helped the uh, the the punches having metal rods? In your hand? I don’t know, but uh a bit of an interesting one, that that’d be quite fun actually going through metal detectors at the airport yeah, but yes, they’re, a good fighter.

You know it’s um.

South africa is not known for their heavyweights and he’s probably along with um.

Here’S the other chap rest in peace, corey sanders who beat uh second chapter beat vladimir klitschko beat him in the second round: uh human couts here, uh, probably the best um two heavyweights that south africa has to to offer.

But yes in there with the mix with all of them um, but you know, wasn’t dominant in any way.

You know you had larry holmes, but all the way up to 1985.

Then it was the case of the others and it was just passing the title from one to the other and i’m sure we’re going to venture into mr tim with a spoon shortly shortly.

But before we do we’re going to talk about pinklin, thomas, oh okay, pinky um, trained by angelo dundee, now pickled thomas, he had a very good fighter, one of the best jabs um, certainly uh from the heavyweights in the 80s.

Now his problem was, as is covered with many as we discussed, was drugs so inconsistent.

Now he won the title.

He lost the title.

If i remember right, that was to don’t tell me uh picking thomas that could have been trev uh that could have been trevor.

Berbick when then trevor burke went on to defend against mike tyson, but he made a comeback and he made the comeback against um [ Music ] a bit of a bum, that’s tyson uh, because he i think he regained it and that’s when, because you had piglet Thomas in the unification series at the head in the 80s uh tyson dispatched him in sixth round sixth round.

I think it was, i do believe.

Sixth or seventh, it was midway after a continual barrage of punches.

It was real, highlight real stuff from uh tyson lost that he then went in against a comeback in evander hollyfield and i do apologize.

Actually, it was earlier than 90.

.

I think that uh holyfield betty’s come back.

It will come back to my head and make i’ll just go into my head in a second just got to get everyone in in order as such um, that’s probably you might have turned.

Maybe you can double check this a moment you might have turned over the heavyweight in 89, but it’s against james, quick tillis.

That’S probably why they would have mentioned him, because i think he just squeaked it in maybe in 89.

, but uh piglet thomas, come back after a period of time out and tried his luck against evander holyfield um, coming back completely bald um and looking not so healthy.

As he did in the past, because you know for the fight with mike tyson, he did actually start well.

He was trained at that point by angelo dundee and uh dundee had a lot of people.

I was going to say fooled but convinced should i say that uh he was going to upset tyson, but no he put a you know.

It was a good test for tyson, but he steamrolled him in the end, as per most other fighters in the 80s um.

But again, it is somebody that um was ruined by drugs, and this is so typical with the 80s um some of the 90s and not so much recently.

I can’t think of anyone apart from uh, the big chap that was done for uh.

It’S now peds anyway, not generally recreational uh drugs which they’re wasting their careers on, but it was very much recreational drugs with the uh, newfound, fame and uh coke being the number one uh party thing with their after fight parties.

Apparently so, yes, absolutely, but yes after he lost to evander hollyfield, i do believe he had a couple of the fights then sort of fizzled out, but um he’s got his health.

He works now.

If i’m, if he’s still doing it, he’s, i think he’s a counsellor to young people, obviously um going on about the hazards of drugs and stuff and working with kids, fair, platinum, um a good end to the career.

But he remembered well that you know the tussle with tyson was good.

He did hold the title once um, one of the list of the champions that again were not at all dominant in the 80s.

Well then, that brings us to number four tim, witherspoon, okay um.

Hopefully, tim won’t be watching this one and uh now curious case timber.

The spoon went in with larry holmes in got 1982.

I do believe now he was fit very light and he gave a uh in peak or slightly on the slot on the curve down, but he did well over the 15 rounds with larry holmes very well, and i do if i remember right that with a spoon Um was chasing the rematch, but it’s never granted whether that was a duck.

I can’t remember, but just never materialized, but tim witherspoon did pick up the title again and um with anyone from england um listening to this.

Obviously that was the wb, oh god, which version was it? The wba would have been the wba version uh.

I think so.

I think it’s the wba.

Yes, i might stand corrected with that one, but one of the defenses against mr um frank bruno, who was challenging for the first time for a heavyweight title who lost in the 11th round uh caught on the chin and bruno back then, unfortunately didn’t know how to Cling on to a fighter, hence his losses, and when he did finally learn to cling on to somebody he did to all of them a cool and outlasted him clung on like an octopus and managed to scrape the wbc title in 1990, god.

What was that 95? I think it was um, but back to tim he was in shape with holmes yep.

He had some good wins, but then he seemed to fluctuate in weight and you probably know his story better than mine.

So i do stand to be corrected here.

He lacked motivation and some of it was down to being.

How could i put it layman’s terms fully shafted by don king and the situation you had uh between the two of them.

Now tim he won the championship defended against bruno.

I remember he was going into the uh.

This was the pre uh.

Was it actually part of the heavyweight unification system which uh don king put together um, but apparently tim was really shafted over by this deal.

He came in with uh bone crusher smith, who tim had already beaten.

He came in as a last minute um standby somebody who was at the pulled out come back to the moment.

Uh his original pulled out in came bone crusher smith, who had previously beaten on points and uh tim in a not so good shape.

Tim got blasted out in the first round, so that was the end of his title ambitions.

Uh tim carried on, and you could say definitely too late in his career.

He had some notable wins.

It was very much a from then on win.

Some lose some um surprised a few when he was not uh the favored fighter to win, notably the second person to defeat jorge luis gonzalez, the cuban chap i was on about who was unbeaten going into the uh ridic beaufight.

He was the second person to put him in this place and uh once tim dispatched him in the ninth round.

I think it was it was later on in the fight, i think, beau not to put him in his place.

I think around uh around five or six and i think tim followed up by a lat around ko, but that was the end of hulk gonzales.

But, yes, you know.

After going back to him in the 80s, it was just a case of winston lose some um questionable motivation questionable weight.

He would come in.

You know one wait for another final next one it’d be way overweight, which is a shame because tim based on how he was against uh larry holmes very light.

I think it was something like 215 pounds around the carter weight – probably 215.

217.

If i remember right, it could have been 220, but it was light compared to the rest of his career, because even when he fought before bruno after winning the title, he was actually overweight at that point, but um.

If you would have continued with that desire and that um motivation, weight, etc after what he did to holmes bear in mind, holmes was uh in in the start of decline.

At that point, i’m sure tim would have picked up the title again, but sadly he didn’t – and that was the end of that, but very good fighter.

Very good.

I’M just not saying it because of the connection with you but uh.

No, it was a waste of talent, so much promise there.

He did win the title, but that wasn’t even at his best yeah he’ll, be the first to admit that uh, a lot of the damage done uh in his career, was courtesy of don king.

He talks about it, often and quite honestly, and that’s quite a shame anyway, um yeah tim’s, a good guy and his main motivation.

These days.

Fyi is the creation of a union, in particular to maintain the health and safety quite frankly, of boxers, presently fighting and after they retire and the funny thing with tim, though, with that picture i sent you with with me and tim yeah such a big hand.

I mean i’ve either got a small head or he’s got a very big hand, and i think it’s actually he’s got a big hand.

He’S got it next to my head: it’s like what the hell yeah he won’t remember, but i was at an event and we were sat next to each other.

So i keep on.

I must get used to this.

The computer’s there you’re there, but i’m going to talk to there right mike’s here, but now we’re at an event, and i was sat next to him and uh lovely chap loved.

He was uh the day.

I met van hollyfield, yes very good event, but uh yeah.

Nice guy and again not because your connection but uh good fighter, shame about don king, but he wasn’t the only one that got majorly shafted by absolutely mr king um, how the hell don king is still alive, kicking promoting and still in boxing at this age uh.

In 2021, god knows and he’s still up to his usual tricks as well.

I thought, if you know about the debacle that happened a short while ago, when you had the christopher lovejoy that was going to germany to fight er, emanuel char, and there was all sorts of crap.

Actually, there was problems before that when christopher lovejoy came over to the uk to fight um dave, dave allen and um, [ Music ] king managed to block legally lovejoy fighting, you know he’s still, you know that’s mr court case.

Um perfectionist he’s got law and everything, and you know back then, especially in the 80s, when he was because when did he start, he was he started promoting, i think, was it the first promotion or an early one of his was actually the uh.

Was it in the manila that was the uh george foreman belt that was done by king? It was one of his first ones, but he’s had a stronghold of it all the way through the eighties.

It was all don king and then he snatched tyson um away from um tyson’s original team sacking, my god, even the the trainer kevin rooney in the ring following the sphinx loss in the ring that is just cold but uh.

Yes, he’s still kicking very much in his 90s.

I think donkeys.

Yes, mr don king, the because he was done for murder, wasn’t it or something he had been so that was back in it was in the 60s.

I think it was late.

60S uh good documentary by the way, if anyone wants to know anything about uh don king just gone to youtube, put doc donking, uh murder, you know uh whatever it come up and uh.

Yes, a maybe he’s a completely reformed character, but um yeah.

He was a bit of a not so nice guy back in the day.

Now, just with the the comments here, i’ve just said somebody say about how to music match with hollyfield okay on pro hollyfield, but that aside, it would have been very good um usic as a cruiserweight he’s.

You know probably first second, and you can argue between hollyfield anusic, who is the best.

You know both unified both are done well um, you could argue.

Maybe hollyfield could have the slight edge um as a fighter, because the question was okay, so it didn’t stipulate cruiserweight or heavyweight.

So you hope now hollyford went there and proved his worth.

You’Ve got everything to work with, but unfortunately with usic you haven’t got much to work with still because if you had the fight with chaz with a spoon didn’t show much at all.

You had the chisora fight where um it showed weakness with you sick.

More than anything, even if he was properly handled, i mean shizuo actually did quite well in that fight, but then obviously the master class with aj.

I think whether this would be u6 last fight, whether we carry on for the next five years or regardless.

What happens? I think we better probably put, i think, usyk into proper perspective with aj in the rematch, because, if he’s dominant again, which he was in the first fight, then absolutely shoots even further up just in my opinion.

But you know if, for example, because aj i think’s about the only one that can improve in the rematch unless um usyk has got more up his sleeve, where he said you haven’t seen.

You know everything of me yet i do believe that, because how good he is, but um, you know as long as i’m trying to get out here is that it’s happened so many times in history with fighters that they come in they’re overlooked because of they’re.

The underdog aj was supposed to win that fight.

Yusic was better than people imagined, so he shot the champion now so many times the the the in the return, the fighter that got beaten, who was the actual uh, the one who was favored to win, comes back and does better.

So it’s just a shock win.

Instead of a consistent win, if that makes sense, if yousick repeats and does um the job again on uh aj music would be right up there um.

Obviously, that’s only gon na be one two three, a fourth fight at heavyweight hollyfield went on for years, and the rest is history.

With that thing, with hollyfield is in 1993, he was regarded as washed up actually 92 because after the first bow fight – and he went in with emmanuel stewart at that point – with the first fight with the rematch with uh alex stewart and he labored in that fight.

In the rematch, with alex stewart um at that point, that was 1993, he was completely regarded as washed up yet went on to win the title.

A further two times went on to all the way through to 2011 last fight with um, france bother a funny ending to that right, um wow, but that was how many years after being regarded as washed up, sadly in decline, should retire now same kind of calls.

You had with walder recently so his wilder could shock us and come back and win it again and be dominant for another 10 years or something i think not, but i’m still not surprised with with anything, because i’m going way off track here.

I did warn you four and a half hours sleep, it’s gon na happen, but uh yeah wilder could uh come back and you know he could be.

I think his carl said the other week.

He’D probably beat the rest of them absolutely.

If the two draining fights haven’t affected him physiologically in a bad way, or maybe his psyche could be, you know it’s, i don’t think somebody like that.

Would land up being gun shy or something, but those two training fights the knockout and the draining beat down before? Can be enough to finish anybody, the only thing that i think is going for wilder is that, up to prior prior to those two heavy fights with fury, you had just uh one tough fight, which was with the first one with ortiz, and that was it.

So i think you’d probably come back and be okay, i don’t think it’d be dominant for another 10 years or something but uh.

We shall see crystal ball away.

Um.

Where were we before, i went off completely off a tangent, suddenly filled you sick, it’s a close one.

I think, as just as fighters would be cruiserweight mix in a bit of heavyweight as well.

I think maybe hollyfield’s slight edge, but regardless of who i think hollyfield won, i think music number.

Two, absolutely you know without a shadow of a doubt, definitely cruiserweight ass fighters mixing in the heavyweight um yet to be seen uh, let’s see what other tricks that marvel, that is you sick and pull anyway back to the 80s end heavyweights.

Next up is mike weaver hercules, as he was called yes, because he had a fabulous um physique.

Now he was one of the i was about to say dominant, but he wasn’t, but he was one of the emerging champions.

He was former champion um.

He came up in the late 70s right now.

He god who did he win the title against.

I think that was possibly jerry.

Coutilla um.

There was et cetera, john big, john tate, god that was rest in peace, john tate, um.

Oh the story about john tate.

Um, that was, he could have been one of the best, certainly in the eighties, but that was somebody else that um parted women – i’m not gon na use that term dick about again but um.

You know so common with all the heavyweights in the 80s.

Now, as much as it is the the lost period or the lost, whatever the the you know, the how it was deemed at that time, i still say that came from in the 90s when they were looking back at the 80s, with the state of the heavyweight Division now bear in mind, there’s good fights there, but because it’s all so much heavier.

I do think, with the exception of fury, how he was in version.

One up to klitschko.

A lot of technique has gone out the window.

It’S just not the same as the 90s okay.

That was yesterday’s story.

Um back to weaver, he was have such a great physique very hard puncher, but he was chinny um.

He had suspect whiskers, whatever you want to call it glass jaw.

He was in some very good fights, but it was another one that won it lost it.

I think.

Did he win it again? Um, but no hard, puncher, um weaver is still alive.

He went on for a long time.

Actually um i got ta.

Remember he faced lennox lewis uh an outdoor fight problem was that that was when lewis was on the way up, um he went on for for too long um, but there’s nothing i’ve seen in reports where you know bad health or anything.

In fact, i’ve not heard anything about weaver for a long time, but uh.

It was just a sad decline.

He sort of looked around at fringe uh world level for quite a while then sort of disappeared into the sunset.

I think one of his last fights is a real funny one.

It was with um [ Music ] bone crusher smith, where both of them, i think, were grossly overweight uh.

When crusher smith went on for too far for too long um, it seemed a bit of a trend back then way way way too long, uh, weird fights, but no hang around too long.

He was just in that mix of the the titles as being passed from one to the other.

It was just a pattern that was just happening.

This is a they’d win it and they might have made one defense and then lost in the next one, but it’s pretty much win.

It lose it on the next one.

It was just passed around it’s a merry-go-round with the title.

Nobody was donovan, donovan dominant and then just you know, party it and yeah screw it away.

Yep speaking of dominant number, two mike tyson god in the eighties who’s gon na be number one.

Oh, it’s gon na be larry holmes.

Of course, yeah mike tyson, my god number two, how okay tyson uh skip the olympic swim professional to me at heavyweight in the eight is absolutely best best of all time i still say, but i will tag at the end of tyson, as i did uh yesterday Or the other day, um his peak was short now.

His peak was arguably 85 to 88 uh, obviously 85, just before winning the title, because he won it against uh trevor berbick.

I think it’s november november 22nd, 1986 and up until um the bout with sphinx.

We dispatched him in uh 81 seconds, that was the peak and, as i said the other day, the problem with mike tyson.

The reason why a lot of people put him down is because of they look further in the career, where he’s still in his 20s.

But it’s even the version 2 after the buster douglas loss or version 3 after being away from the game for three and a half years after raping desiree washington.

Now he was still late twenties when he came back.

You know that’s still early now, so people look at those fights and oh, he was the bully.

He would, you know, come out and if he could knock you out, he would fade in the the the second half.

Well, that was in the 2000s, with people like uh kevin mcbride at the end of the career with daly williams, um with with uh lennox lewis, these raw, he was competitive in the first half and then second half would fall apart.

You know they’re based in at the end of his career or in the middle of his career, or he was even in sharp decline at the age of 23 because he won it because he he when he won the title in 86 against trevor berbick um.

He was the youngest heavyweight champion at that point at age 20.

.

Now he was in decline at 23 and people base how good he is from 24 and upwards, which is unfair.

You’Ve got to gauge a fighter with their peak and uh.

Tyson was short, but that tyson, who was ticked every single box and i’d like you to toss this with anybody, because tyson was the complete fighter.

Apart from not being tall, five foot ten suddenly had that at the time they’re saying five foot eleven five foot eleven.

Unless time passes, oh yeah, it’s really five foot, ten, which everyone was pretty much saying back then, but it wasn’t reported that way.

You know tyson ticked, every box, speed power, movement, boxing abilities, chin everything, aggression break it down into fine detail.

He had it all.

So how could he be not the best he had everything and he was devastating um.

The only thing that could be thrown at him could be okay, some of the fighters on the way up, uh were a bit suspect and not the the best of the prop, but that is the root of every champion.

Show me any champions rise where it hasn’t been the usual 8-z of the the journeyman, then gatekeepers, etc as they move.

You know from turning pro up to championship.

They get that far level.

It’S the case with all of them.

You know if people have put resumes down got any heavyweight.

Now tell me, you know anthony joshua what his best win is: uh fury what’s his best win, okay klitschko, but that was at age, 40.

, two wins over wilder, but how good is wilder because wilder look at his resume who’s, the what’s the best win on wilder’s Resume there isn’t anything they were like football players or theirs school teachers or whatever um.

Nothing.

And this is the thing – and i just think it’s so unfair, with uh just the mike tyson bashing, because as much as he was my favorite fighter, i sadly have to say that he is the best.

And apart from fury and the version that beat klitschko that could bob weave box long reach tall all the rest of it he’s the only one with stand.

A chance tyson in that three-year peak would have rolled over.

Everybody should be number one but number two fair enough.

A lot of people would base it uh, not as low as that.

Based on this thing, whether oh yeah see look at the fights, he was 25 and it wasn’t so good that sharp decline you know was that diversion to version three still in his twenties at the you know: okay late twenties, but that was you know.

That was considerably you know.

He was running probably about sixty percent fifty percent of what he was.

He ticked every box.

Quite simply, number two, okay could be worse and it’s just an opinion, so so be it, but speak to the all these people that lost to him and very quickly and who they say: uh the best is um right absolutely so that leaves number one.

It can only be, and it can only be larry arms.

Absolutely yes, good man, what a list of victims he was great, he um he would stand up well and then this is now i’m going to go.

Compare him to the the fighters of today.

Yes, just a little bit on larry holmes, he won the title, god was 78, but he was unbeaten going in with ken norton the uh.

This is when muhammad ali was stripped of the title um and it was ken norton.

He was stripped.

Ken norton was upgraded to uh champion and the first defense being against larry holmes.

Ah, okay, great win, split decision win for holmes in an absolute bomb burn, one of the best top 10 heavyweight fights ever um holmes was dominant from that point, all the way through to the 1985 sphinx loss compiling at that point, a record of 48 sorry, 47 And, though, not managing to equal rocky martial and it was 48-0 and beaten every challenge, some of them yes, were close and he was dropped uh in a few of them, he was the second to last person to meet harmony in 1980, sad fight.

That was when he just came in too light um.

Then he had just had the one fight after again after that with trevor berbick, but holmes was good.

The only thing that would bring into now the modern day heavyweights with him is that he was very light.

Now, obviously, he went through it in his 30s and he went up in weight as the career went on, but at his peak he was only weighing 215 and he was six foot two and a half three.

I don’t know if you can around that kind of height sort of mid, mid height, but light that kind of fighter purely based on weight.

Bear in mind, that is a bridger weight.

Um would struggle with somebody of just my opinion of a lesser uh caliber.

Let’S say, for example, but they’ve got that weight advantage.

You know it’s there’s a fight to bring the fighter from the 80s and this applies to most of them, because if you look down the weights of any of the fighters – and they have you know in the heavyweight division, if there was any weight on them, it Wasn’T healthy weights just because they got fat because a lot of them did with all the parting once they won the title, etc, but holmes was dominant.

He was also always motivated, always fit.

The only person he overlooked was michael spinks when he suffered his first loss with michael spinks, obviously moving up from light heavyweight, bypassing the newly formed cruise weight.

Yes, it would just have been just been formed and he bypassed cruiserweight straight up to heavyweight.

Um was great.

He was very good, but weight would have caused a problem.

Um, you know, 215, you know stick him in with a good 245 pound heavyweight that could move.

That’S reasonably good.

It’S too much of a weight deficit first off before anything else comes into it.

Okay, more so with cassius clay, more so with um joe louie, with go further back in time when a heavyweight way way way back then, was actually probably light heavyweight, um crazy.

But that’s why i should be a super heavyweight and not stick things in between cruiserweight and heavyweight.

Oh god, that’s another story, but um.

No, he was good.

He had one of the best jabs in history, and this is why he overlooks sphinx, because he said my jab would be like a light heavyweights right cross and as it turned out, that was the case.

But the light heavyweight was very quick and very motivated for sphinx win and beaten him now the majority.

I think, then give me your opinion, because i’m bubbling on again and it’s now – 53 deja vu.

I think that you know a lot of the fighters were unmotivated and due to the partying and the reasons that we said putting those guys in with the guys of now there.

I don’t think skill, wise, there’s not much too much difference.

I think with them, and now i think, skill, wise or natural skill, which everyone would look at it.

I think the 80s heavyweights have got a slight edge over the the champs now.

What you’ve got now is that i just think they’re stronger, bigger um with all of the training techniques and everything that’s taken place over time, but the skill, i think, was a little bit more, but the weights, the weights of the chaps now, but just it’s just.

I think it’s just a deciding factor, because it’s such a deficit to overcome before school comes into it before anything else comes into it.

You know maybe reach, then now you know, larry holmes was regarded as a big heavyweight and it was about six foot, three two and a half six three around that mark.

You know the now, as we well know, six six, six, seven, six, nine or seven for two.

If you include value with easily forgotten uh skill wise, they were better, but they would have struggled um majority of them with the fighters.

Now, who would have won flip a coin um, because it’s it’s like some of the fighters now are coming in a little bit: overweight and unmotivated.

I mean dylan white um, especially he’s had some good wins on his career.

His weight has fluctuated up and down and as much as he’s 19 stone and none of them back then were 19 stone.

He still reminds me of a bit of a throwback haters fighter.

I kind of rate white he’s good, but i’m not sure about this.

This pull-out, with uh, also wallin, that’s a different story, but white reminds me very much of later’s heavyweight that the weight would fluctuate.

His motivation would fluctuate, but a good fighter, but not the best.

Can he win a world title? Don’T know? Maybe it depends.

What’S gon na you know what else is going to happen in the merry-go-round that’s going up at the top.

Currently, yes, well with all that’s going on um, but if he’s gon na go with fury, maybe he can, but i don’t think he will come anywhere close to fury.

Unfortunately, um he’s a big man who would beat most of the heavyweights out there um.

But you know to me he’s like a throwback heavier eighties fighter, but i think the 80s fighters would struggle the average 80s fighter would struggle with size now, because size is a big factor if speed isn’t affected.

What do you think two things uh one? I absolutely concur the distractions of the 80s had their impact on their careers or respective careers, and the other is 15 rounds.

Uh.

You know these guys were contending in a different world of boxing, quite frankly uh than today’s fighters.

So these these fighters today are training.

Uh not shall we say as long distance runners.

If you draw that equation, but uh, you know they would be.

You know, making their impact on a shorter amount of time, quite frankly, so i’ll give that uh to the the 80s fighters.

The endurance, if you will to having to to slug it out for 15 rounds yeah a few of the fighters now, would struggle um right yeah.

They struggle sort of gun.

11.

10.

You know the 10th of the 11th 12th, so 15.

, yes yep, and so i think today’s fighters um in terms of the management class, if you will, is better uh at steering their fighters away from these distractions uh, maybe not so much and tyson fury’s camp, because He readily admits his distractions are and still does well.

He cannot go up and wait and come down wait forever, that his body it’d be the ricky hatton situation.

It will give one day, but you know he’s doing it right he’s winning.