Friday Night Boxing Panel 48 | Weekly Episode | Talkin Fight
EPISODE: Episode 3
Friday Night Boxing Panel 48 | Weekly Episode | Talkin Fight
Our group of panelists are always prepared for another weekly roundup of boxing headlines, including trivia from the past and current-event news to share with the many fans out there that enjoy the great sport of Boxing!
Watch live on TalkinFight.com or YouTube.com/c/TalkinFight
#TalkinFight #Witherspoon #FridayNightPanel
Hello taco fight fans and welcome to another episode of the friday night panel featuring me, uh and graham, who will be joining us shortly in about 10 minutes.
That’S why i’m introducing us tonight and our uh, our other counterpart tim two-time, heavyweight world champion witherspoon in the house uh and he’s brought along with him uh his good friend brian who’s gon na uh got a lot of good stuff to discuss today.
My marketing director, his his marketing genius, is what he said off camera though well we’re off camera.
But, as you mentioned around, we got lots to talk about uh.
We wanted to talk about some good ideas you had for the boxing union brian.
So you know what man, let’s just i’ll, give you the platform just go ahead and let’s, let’s start talking yeah so um, i’m not an expert on union.
So i just you know, want to preface that right there i mean the angle that i’m coming at it with, and i talked with uh paul a bit about is more about um.
What the unions can do for a former athlete a former boxer.
I don’t know if you guys want to get into mma fighters.
If that’s even a direction you guys have considered going but um.
I know that um.
What’S that all combative yeah, so maybe it would be one of those things that kind of just encompasses them all.
But um yeah, you know it’s just kind of like what what tim and i are doing together, it’s uh being able to utilize what you’ve already accomplished, and now it’s not for for everyone.
Of course, somebody who’s reached the level high.
A higher status, of course, can have more marketability with their name.
The name is easier to brand, but i think, having skills once you’ve gotten out of the fight game and uh also, you know i work in healthcare and um you’ll be surprised when people reach a certain age and they their health fails and all this nobody really Comes to them and tells them what they they can get from the government.
What assistance is out there for them, so i think having an aggressive now it’s much better than it was 20 years ago in the health industry, but right now we’re kind of in the dark ages for uh fighters.
You know they don’t know they get out, nobody’s coming up to them and saying hey, let’s look at the let’s look at your neurological level right now.
Maybe there’s some damage we, you know there should be some.
Maybe post fight post career analysis of somebody’s uh, physical and uh mental capacity after you know years of fighting that should be the first assessment and then what comes with that? What type of uh programs are there? You know, support are there for people who have given their life for the entertainment, but now their bodies are ravaged from it.
You know it’s um and tim.
You know, i mean there’s people, what do you call punchy, or you know afterwards, they’re, just the neurological skills.
Just not there so i think that’s important health um assessment should be a core function.
What are the impairments of them people? You know what maybe a level of an i used to work in pyramid ratings, maybe giving them some level of impairment rating uh.
What programs will be available for them uh, especially government programs when they get out and then career building like? What’S your next step when you’ve transitioned like i was in the armed forces, i’m not sure if you were, but when you get out the hardest thing is transitioning.
Who do i become now in this new life, and i think maybe those are some, the periphery of things that are what we’re initially covering.
I guess when you talk about the union, these are the things that we should look at and then, of course, having your pension type plan, but right right, um.
So what uh? What what? What where? Where are we at right now with the union and the movement that you guys are trying to start like um, how long, how far along, is it um? How long before we could actually see something that this being actually implemented into into the future like how? How far into the future are we looking before? If we get that? Well, i i know that they’re right in the infancy of it right tim you’re right at the beginning of it.
So i i think what you have.
No, no! No, let me let me say to say this: paul johnson has been pursuing these things and us for a while, but to really get serious um.
We need guys like brian and him and all them, so we’re really we’re getting serious right now.
Brian go ahead, oh i don’t want to take the uh here.
I know you’re more of the expert.
I mean i’m giving you an opinion right now, i’m not an expert, i’m just a soldier in the army.
You, you have a lot of experience.
Um and paul.
Do too it takes soldiers to get it moving, though, and get it off the ground and it needs to be do the due diligence? Do the leg, work and you know all the research and everything to push it forward.
Is this the kind of thing that would be going before, like the courts like the supreme court or anything like that and yeah wait, wait, wait! Wait! Brian john! When i talked to paul about 20 minutes ago, he was talking to the attorneys, so you should be call him and get in touch with him.
He is having a communication with the lawyers so um i wish he could have got on so we could really blend in and really get a good understanding, but he was talking to the attorneys it’s going to represent us.
Oh, that’s excellent, yeah.
The first step, of course, is legal, defining what it is, what parameters you can work in, but i think also it’s outreach.
I’M a marketing guy public relations person branding all that stuff, i think that’s a big step is, is how you get the word out there and then how you get people to get behind it.
You know people got to get passionately behind it.
Most of the time.
Big movements uh get to where they’re going, because the average person becomes passionate about it and i think that’s an initially big step.
You can get it get the legal foundations.
Don’T have a a um concept built of what what that union is going to do, but then sell it to the public to the people that are going to be passionate and want to fight for, for this to uh become something that is actually comes to fruition.
We don’t even definitely need more team witherspoons.
Even boxing people know exactly they’ll get on real good or what he’s talking about they’re ready to go? The boxing people are ready, see we need.
We need people like you tim to sell it.
Man, because you can.
You can sell it to these athletes that that that you’ve you’ve been in their shoes.
You know, what’s you know, what’s coming in the you know in the in the future, you know you have friends that that you can’t talk to anymore.
They can’t hold the conversation.
So it’s going to take it’s going to take the veterans like you to really push it to the youth um brian.
How would you market it like? How did you used him to market, at the words of youth, to get them to jump on board to be able to pull money out of their purse? To you know to dish into this union yeah i mean i, i think like how i’m working with tim, like we’ve, built this strategy around branding his name so i’ll kind of give you uh uh how i work in the the way that i kind of see The world uh like with tim um, just to show him how marketable he is.
For example, i think tim was kind of leery about whether or not um this would this reality.
I said i’m going to take you to a 51 billion company and i’m going to sit you down in front of some executives and i guarantee you i don’t know, but i can guarantee you i don’t.
They didn’t say this to me, but i know how companies think they’re going to offer you an ambassadorship, because i understand how companies think about marketing.
I understand their mentality and i know what what would be something that would make sense to them.
So i brought tim right to him.
We went in, they sat you down, they put the executives in front of them, some of the executives weren’t, the younger ones, weren’t even sure who you were they researched you and realized who you were were quite impressed and uh.
They are now putting forward an ambassadorship with him and we’ll have a second talk with them: they’re building a marketing plan around tim.
But i guess my idea is what i’m saying is we have to look at uh, what like like with kim? What is it that our objective hold up, paul johnson calling go hold on hello, paul, wonderful phone calls we sent, we cut you off brian.
You run a good point there.
Well, we need you can can.
Can you send me the email or send? Do you know the people right? You got their stuff.
The information right tell paul to just give us his send me your email, so i can send it to them.
This is great.
I’M excited for helping, oh, my goodness hold on hold on.
Okay, oh okay! What is it now? What is it great movement? Union um? Oh yeah, yeah, it’s a great! It’S a great concept! Yeah! Definitely to be able to take care of these guys who entertained us for so many years uh.
You know some of them didn’t make as much money as others.
Due to you know, management and due to promotions and all this cool stuff crime.
Somebody who sits behind the desk all day is incredibly out of shape.
Never does anything that hardly gets.
Does anything physical.
Somebody else’s how like tim, was working their butt off striving to be a great fighter.
Why shouldn’t he make the money? Why is it the dude? He did no work, no nothing but just was in the right place.
Had the right connections can um can steal what he worked and what the abuse that he took at the hands of another warrior right.
Two warriors got in, i’m sorry, i’m sorry can.
Can he get it still get in? If i can, okay go ahead, go ahead.
Talk, brian, i’m sorry, yeah, just text the email over and then they’ll send them the link.
They those guys, did all the work yeah.
You know what i’m saying is that somebody who didn’t do all that hard work and take all that go 12 rounds of another elite athlete wailing on you and your whale.
I mean that’s what why you know it’s a travesty that these warriors don’t get.
I heard this mystic one time that a heavyweight bout going 12 rounds is almost the equivalent of being struck 180 times in the head with a piece of wood right.
You know so, honestly, yeah, you can understand how you know.
There’S a lot of a lot of brain injuries in boxing, and you know what we’ve got to take care of these guys.
Man, yeah and they’ve – earned it they worked hard to get there.
They put the time, then yeah.
It’S totally really pushing the the youth on to this movement, because you know what they’re not there yet they’re.
Just in the you know the beginning of their careers, and you know it’s: it’s people like tim that are going to be able to make these guys understand.
Hey look: this is what’s happening in the end.
You know this is this is what’s happening to these guys and this guy.
This guy can’t do an interview because he can’t hold a sentence.
This guy can’t do that, and these are all injuries that have happened.
You know they’re, inspiring and paul jones upsetting, but this movement is great, i’m i’m pro-union about it and uh.
You know, i think we do have to take care of our or you know our veterans and the guys yeah.
They they took the abuse man; they they did it now.
They went all them rounds.
Most of us.
I i couldn’t last around in there.
I’D get hit one time and i’d bobby dude get on the heavy bag.
He’D be kicking that bag in here you should shoot well, he did martial arts, so i said i studied thai for for almost 10 years, so i want to take tim to uh meet.
What’S how do you say the guy’s name? Sanchez? Don’T do it well, i want to do a video with you and him in thailand.
Sanchai right is that how they say i don’t know about tali thailand’s fun tim.
Could you imagine a video with those two that legend in this legend talking about fighting exactly you know what i’m i’m still i’m still impressed that this legend is on this show with me every friday, oh yeah he’s a great deal.
No, i’m down the earth and everybody’s and everybody’s important to think i don’t care, i don’t care.
If i had 20 million everybody’s important in this world.
That’S why i do it i’m 40 years old.
I grew up watching him.
Oh he’s a young book.
I got a daughter older than you.
Yes, yes, i’m i’m 40.
Yes, i grew up as a kid watching you box man.
That’S that’s why it’s it’s unreal to me.
You know it’s like it’s hard to it’s hard to take in sometimes, but it’s great um.
So tim um, what uh? What are the next steps that you guys are trying to like do like? What’S what what’s that from here for for this year, just like the legal and then after the legal, it’s paul again, it’s paul again hold on right, hello.
I think um, you know if i i’ll chime in a little bit here um, we should look at the the healthcare industry first, as kind of a support for all of this.
I mean something that football players did to really get a lot of balls rolling about the uh uh concussion issues yeah.
Maybe we can get support.
I mean i’m just thinking off the top of my head.
You know um get neurological institutions behind us and um.
I mean just starting there: that’s the mold, guys yeah we sent them the link.
We i sent.
I sent the link to the um.
What’S his name, i tim one said: one of our viewers, uh has said tim witherspoon versus evander holyfield would have been a great fight.
Well, you know my brother anthony who was a really hard puncher.
He was like 13 with 13 knockouts and then when we got, we went to don king, that’s when he lost.
He didn’t like it, but um um.
How about today? How about today tim? Did you fight him today, but the way he is now yeah after after after that last outing that you saw uh against against what was it um? Oh, what’s names up my mind, yeah i know um they got that 5 million um.
I don’t know you know.
I i prefer to do what i’m doing now, helping former people, for you know things that happened in the past um, but to fight them.
I know i know i’ll probably do a good job and need a little bit more time to get in shape, but i think i would do well.
If, because i don’t know, people were saying that he was taking enhancers like steroid stuff and all that.
So i don’t think his body could recover it’s good like before, because because of that, he didn’t look good in that fight, but if he looked like he did in that fight, i think i’ll do really good, because all i do is get up cook food work Out and come home, i don’t i don’t do nothing really nothing else, so youtube videos.
Yes, we have another couple comments here.
Uh one of our friends from overseas from las vegas says hello from the hotbed of boxing um british boxing border control led the way with ringside medical support.
In the past couple years, uh tim aj uh in the states has he called you no, but i heard people i heard a lot of people.
Um said he’s on the west coast um.
He should be on the east coast uh, where some really good intelligence at.
I heard he was with um uh, andre ward’s, uh trainer and, what’s really full in these boxing today, is that the boxers the boxers are winning, but not knowing how really good the trainers are.
You know ali won a lot of fights, but angelo dundee never afford a day in his life.
Uh lou, dover, his box is one face, but he never fought a day emmanuel stewart.
They said only had a couple of fights, um and but tommy hearn just damaged.
No defense boxes are so when, when the people see the boxer perform on television um, they think that the trainer, the trainer is is you know, is really doing a good job, but i saw in most of those cases like sugar hill.
He never afford a day in his life.
They had a video of him, um um duplicating what his uncle did or they put him both together.
So he was hiring that um tyson fury and then they put a video next to it, showing a man, stewart howard and that tommy hearns and it was similar.
It was like he was watching the film you didn’t see.
That did you! No! I didn’t.
I didn’t really like that they had sugar here on tv, saying the same words his uncle said, and they had both of the tapes together with with uh my manual stewart doing the same thing.
Pumping i’m saying you got to use the jab excuse, my language.
You got to use the effing jam and so sugar hill was doing the same thing and i don’t really want to spend most of our time doing all these things um, but but um these guys are going to the wrong people.
He should come on the east coast.
Look how good i can talk.
I can show him all this.
I can get his defense together.
All you need is a good defense.
All tyson, fury need to do is tighten his defense up and wilder and anthony joshua.
They both all three can punch what about their defenses well, yeah yeah, they all have they all have only time i went on the canvas is when i threw the fight with bone crusher.
I threw the fight and we’ll talk about that in the future.
Yeah we’re not supposed to talk.
That’S the secret tim! That’S gon na make this funny.
That’S a patella graham welcome.
Welcome to the show, thanks for instagram, hey, hey, graham! Thank you we’re just talking about um.
You know uh the union and uh.
You know bringing it up uh to the courts, and you know getting this thing really moving and and getting healthcare involved uh with with it to kind of like solidify it as as an entity and uh yeah.
So that’s that’s pretty much where brian had some good ideas.
Uh tim tim has been uh called away twice on a phone call with uh paul.
I believe it was yeah, i’m getting ready to call him again.
We he don’t know he don’t know how to get on it.
Hey paul you’re, on the friday night panel you have reached uh paul paul is telling me something interesting because it’s uh a question of contractor versus employee.
Oh who knows what it is, is that paul? You made it that’s what we need now.
He can explain it come on paul, hey paul, yes, [, Music ].
Let me introduce you, then i’ma shut up.
You guys, i’m his daughter and i helped him.
Hey, she’s, beautiful, [, Music, ].
Wait a minute! Wait! A minute wait, a minute: that’s paul, johnson, okay, he’s ahead of the vlc.
The rest show guys go ahead.
What happened to what happened to uh? I think we kicked him out, hey paul.
We spoke on the phone a month or two ago.
I can’t remember when exactly – and we were talking specifically about first of all, the number of people across society who support uh the union and all of your efforts.
So far, you also took great pains to explain uh the court situation with respect to an independent contractor versus an employer relationship, so um that that’s those are the two takeaways that i had hey mike.
So those are the two takeaways that i had that you’ve done.
A lot of work so far you’ve got a lot of support and the the court, the supreme court, has ruled uh that the employer, employee relationship stands in the boxing ring.
So yes, yes, yes, and we just got off the phone with uh with uh.
A couple of attorneys and and uh you know, there’s there’s individual boxers that have suffered damages and gerald mcclellan is one that comes to mind and there’s others and going forward uh just like with the national football league players association, there’s uh, there’s a repeated head trauma Causes damages and some people are fine, they’re, okay and other people have difficulty, and it’s just making sure that when we put this thing together and boxing is in with single corporate structure and the ranking groups are, are understanding that they’re part of this thing that the Boxers have a voice, and and by putting a voice in this process, there will be when we, when we put boxing into a single corporate structure, um who’s, going to want to buy into that television and the television rights for this thing will be astronomical.
But we have to do it together as a group when we put this thing together without uh, without without kind of running all over the place.
We make sure that everybody’s together on the same stream of thought, does that make sense? Yes, yes, yes, okay, you got brian real, quick.
You got brian who you had a conversation with uh.
My marketing director two is here also: okay, oh paul, okay and then yeah nice to see you paul.
Yes, i see you literally.
We talked yes and same here.
Nice to see you as well, yes and your daughter is as beautiful as they said.
She was when she was on the news there by the way.
Yes, yes, yes, she’s, uh, she’s, very familiar with uh, with uh talking on television, she’s been there and it’s uh.
It’S uh, she was uh, we’re very proud of her yeah yeah, yes, and so.
Okay, you guys got ta lead them into something.
Absolutely well we’ll start off with that uh quick question from carl over in the uk uh hello, paul from the uk.
How will the union work for germany, men who earn a little purse when fighting what? How many? What was that again? How will the union work for journeymen, who earn a little purse when fighting paul, paul journeyman i’ve been to england all the time germany men journeyman’s are boxers, who they just keep using and put putting them in uh with with up and coming guys and um yeah.
They just use them to put them in some of them.
Some of them um upset some of the up-and-coming fighters and some of them just keep on fighting as journeyman’s.
They come in regular.
If i’m correct, am i correct? Yes, special on um journeyman boxers, also known as tomato cans, uh they’re used as stepping stones or gatekeepers.
You will call it uh.
They usually have a very high loss to win ratio um.
I did profile a whole week of uh, some of the best known, um and uh.
You know some of these guys are up there, 300 fights under their belt uh.
You know they make five to seven hundred dollars a week, uh they’re responsible for their own traveling.
All the hotels uh you know and then out of that five to seven hundred they got ta pay their corner.
You know they got ta pay promoters.
So it’s it’s a joke.
It’S a joke, but some of these guys, you know they do it because they love it.
Some of them can make a pretty good living at it, but um yeah it’s unfortunate, but that’s what the journeyman is well and and yes and i’m and i and i i i’m familiar with what a journeyman is and and when you have a.
But when you have a boxer that is a world champion, and you have a boxer that said two or three fights, obviously a pension plan for a for a great champion who’s put who’s, making millions of dollars.
You know those kind of fighters can afford their own pension plan, and but there will be a way that this, by putting a union together with this thing that you can have a pension plan, it doesn’t have to be just a pension in dollars.
You can have a pension plan that could help boxers find employment could help boxers with scholarships to college.
There’S all sorts of creative pension plans that you can put together across the spectrum of fighters from uh world champions, making hundreds of millions of dollars to the club fighters that are making a thousand dollars a fight.
So well, that’s definitely, but that can be put together.
But but the interesting thing about the sport right now is: there has to be a way when you have all the other.
Major sports are put together into a corporate structure, and boxing is the only sport that there is no corporate structure.
There is no.
There is no getting together the promoters and the boxers managers trainers, referees judges, getting the sport put together and then with the ranking groups who are if, if i’m a fighter – and i haven’t – and i haven’t um uh, i’m up, i’m i’m ranked number 10 or number Six or seven or whatever, i’m ranked that and i haven’t fought another fighter.
You have to have fighters ranked where they’re ranked 10 or eight, even though they haven’t fought each other.
One is ranked above another one because of the the competition who they fought and and and when, when that is put together as a as a as a corporate thing, the the business of boxing when it has all those fighters that are ranked and and one is Ranked here one is ranked there we will be able to to to to put this thing together, so that there’s the television rights when this thing is put together in a corporate structure of the television rights.
Do you know how much the television rights are for football and baseball and basketball and hockey it’s in the billions yeah it’s astronomical, yes, and and and boxing needs to be put together into a corporate structure with a union for the boxers, with a with a pension Plan and like i say, the pension can be in money or it can be in health care.
Anything other other other ways that you can give benefits for fighters, but put it into a corporate structure.
So you can sell the television rights instead of uh.
Instead of you get one promoter, you get top rank and we’ve talked with the promoters.
We’Ve talked with bob aaron, we’ve talked with luna bella uh um, joe deguardia.
We’Ve talked to the promoters and the promoters.
I think understand that the dangers that the boxers go through in the sport of boxing there’s, no doubt you suffer chronic traumatic encephalopathy.
It’S dangerous, there’s head trauma, some do and some some can box their whole life and have no problems.
But the point is it’s dangerous and by putting together boxing in their corporate structure, then when we have the the when we go to television – and we say we – we’ve got this a chance to have two undisputed champions and that in boxing in the old days used To go and the undisputed champion, but now, if you get confused with you, know the dev undisputed wba, the ibn and when you do that and when the public starts going.
Yeah yeah, the alphabet soup group, when the public talks like that, that’s really unhealthy.
For the sport and if we can put it together so that there’s a pathway that you can have the wba and ibf and wbo and the wbc they can be involved.
But only if the boxers that are ranked – and you could have at the beginning of the season have like a draft where one, the wbc, who do you pick for your number one contender wba? Who do you pick and go all the way down so each one said they have the top 20 fighters, but no double ups.
If you’re in one ranking group you’re not in another one, then you can have a process where you can have a pathway to undisputed championship tournaments, which television would love and they’d pay for it.
Yes, definitely definitely boxing like it was back in the old day, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, there’s way, there’s way too many belts way too many sanctioning bodies.
Nowadays, i believe over 17 weight classes, i believe, there’s 68 belts up for grabs at any given time.
It’S ridiculous! Absolutely ridiculous – and i remember in back back when do you guys know jose torres? Yes, oh, i know i’m real good and there’s been problems there, but but underst understand that when we go forward with this thing, there’s going to be people that doesn’t like this one doesn’t like that one, but we have to stay focused on what we’re doing by Putting the sport into a single corporate structure, with a union interpension and with true undisputed championship tournaments and the television rights, and if we stay focused on that, then for somebody that this guy doesn’t like this guy or that guy doesn’t, we can get be or women.
Now too, with women boxing we can.
We can put this thing together and set aside the differences that people have, because one of the things that’s hurt boxing forever is, if there’s a promoter that doesn’t like another promoter, then those fighters that those promoters have don’t meet.
Each other and that’s where that’s where conflict of interest and antitrust and like bob abram, eddie hearn problem, yeah right, we’ve been we’ve been: we’ve been waiting to see champions, fight, champions forever, and it’s just because these two have a distinction for each other.
Well, i think it’s more, i think it’s more bob abram has a disliking for eddie hearn because tried to reach out and tried to get these fights going, but bob abram wants nothing to do with it.
Well, and even if there was two boxers that don’t get along right, having a union they’re gon na understand, it’s, like i’m sure, there’s nfl players, one player doesn’t like another one, but the one thing they have in common is they’re in a union yeah.
So we had talked about uh and i’ve talked about this with brian as well uh the similarities uh between former union and forming a players association and even in hollywood, when they form the screen actors guild.
So have you looked into the differences and or similarities between those we’ve talked to the we’ve talked to the screen actors guild we’ve talked to the people.
We’Ve got letters of support from the national football league players, association, the baseball players, basketball hockey and the screen actors guild, and one of the things about the screen actors guild, that’s very similar to boxing is in the other sports.
You have t in boxing.
You have individual and i don’t want to say you get close to when you’re talking about individuals where you say well, you can’t have a union because you’re, individual contractors right and and boxers are not, and we have that supreme court president case where there was a Fighter in new york, who fought and he died in the ring and his parents fought for collective bargaining rights, they sued the promoter and the promoter said no you’re, not an employee you’re, an independent contractor and that’s you.
We can’t, we can’t give you and they appealed it.
They appealed and went to the new york supreme court and the new york supreme court ruled that boxers are indeed employees and promoters are indeed employers, and so that case was held up and that’s that’s obviously you know to have a union.
You have to have that employee and player relationship distinguished and the employer can’t take money from you.
He has to generate that money right.
Well, the promoter can’t take money from a boxer, that’s in the muhammad ali law.
Well, i mean you know, you’re going to negotiate.
You’Re going to negotiate things on what you can do, but the reason why the muhammad ali act put that in there is they didn’t want.
You know promote promoters, sign a contract with a boxer and the boxer says: okay to the promoter, you’re gon na give me fights and uh you’re going to uh you’re gon na take it’s you’re gon na you’re gon na pay me this much money for the fight.
So there are, you know it is complicated and we have to all understand that what we’re putting together here has been needed in boxing forever, and it’s one of the reasons why why the boxers they people say, ah that guy over there he’s punch drunk look at Him he can’t even you know these things go on and i want to say: hey, that’s our business if a boxer gets injured in the in the ring, that’s we’ll take care of that, but it has to be handled through the collective bargaining process.
Where you have somebody to bargain with and the promoters are obviously going to be the employers, but they have to understand that if, if they say no, we’re not going to do this, we’re not going to recognize boxers having a union or an association or anything else.
We’Re not going to do this, then we would say, then we then we’re going to go to court and we’re talking to attorneys and believe me, the case involved with boxer and head trauma is the exact same reason that the football players when the owners they said.
Okay, we’re not going to go to court, we’ll settle and the reason they settled is because they knew that they were going to lose yeah um paul.
We had an interesting question come in uh from from one of our viewers, uh asking uh with with putting it together.
How do you think it would work overseas with different employment laws and legislation? How would you be able to combine all that? Well, the first, obviously, the first thing we’re going to do is we’re going to take okay right now.
The major television place is in the united states and there’s some stuff in united kingdom and in mexico and canada.
Those fighters are going to.
You know come into this association, whatever you want to call it the corporate structure, you know with the union whenever you want to call it they will come in, but there will be a a a single structure of which will start out.
There will be a lot of fighters from america and there’s going to be television places, whether it’s espn or showtime or wherever.
It is where the television rights will be put on where you have a pathway to undisputed championships, and there will be fighters from canada and fighters from mexico and fighters from south america that will come in, but there’s some place.
The corporate the corporate the corporate structure is going to probably be in america, but that won’t in any way um keep fighters from all over the world.
United kingdom, china, russia, wherever that joined this corporate structure of professional boxing.
Have you taken a look at uh? The one that comes to mind is fifa, they’re, an international governing body with respect to soccer or football.
Depending what country you live in um and they they, they obviously have to govern uh themselves according to international law.
I’M just curious whether you’ve looked at the fifa scenario.
Well, i haven’t, i haven’t really and – and i guess the reason that that one of the things that we did when we dealt with the you know, each state have have state commissions and when we, when we, we had a meeting with the state commissions years ago And we talked about specifically about in one state.
Has this rule one state has that rule, but there has to be a point where, if you, if you want to put boxing together with a you, know a corporate structure with a union there has to be, there has to be a clientele in the clientele in This case – and we are very fortunate because, with the state commissions, every boxer is licensed and registered, their name is licensed and registered, so you have access to who the members would be and, of course, um.
I’M sure there’s the organizations and for canadian boxers and mexican boxers and united kingdom and all over the world there’s places where these fighters are kept track of who they fought, etc, etc.
And we have the opportunity now to put this all into a single corporate structure and obviously you’re going to have a difference between if you’ve got fighters that are rated in the top 10 top 20 versus you’ve got a fighter.
That said, one or two fights and obviously there’s going to be differences between like we talked about not everybody is going to have a gigantic pension, but but the fighters that are putting making millions of money you got say: you’re like a floyd mayweather somebody’s making tons Of money, and then you have a guy, that’s making a thousand bucks.
Well, like we said you can have a pension plan that deals with with with employment, helps people get jobs, helps them with scholarships going to college.
There’S other ways that you can have a of a pension plan.
Besides just money, payoff right, hey brian got any questions.
Um yeah, i mean it’s uh, it’s interesting to see the sport moving in that direction.
Um, it’s probably one of the the biggest ones.
That’S been left behind in a lot of ways, but um.
You know i’m gon na learn more about it to be more sophisticated.
I have uh, obviously very general understanding on how unions work and then the legal envelope of it and how that’s all done.
I’M not i’ve, never really followed a lot of the uh, like your organized sports, like baseball and all that i’ve never been into.
That was actually a golf pro once many many years ago.
So uh there’s not a lot of injuries in golf except for tiger.
I don’t know, there’s a lot of involvement in terms of there’s a there’s, a golf association, the pgi.
Yes, there is an association for golf and that would be very similar.
Yes, it would be in boxing as well yeah, yeah and you’re right about that.
I guess just the injury and the ability to play the game so much later in life, senior, tour and stuff.
Like that and now they’re making a lot more money back when ben hogan and all those guys were playing man, they weren’t making.
The tour was didn’t pay much at all, but they changed that.
I mean that really.
But i guess with boxing you know: it’s just really the amount of damage that people get and i i like what you were.
We were talking about paul about how the game would get better uh.
The sport, i should say, would get better if um journeymen, like the people who are the ones um, you know sparring partners or you know in there, like you said, gatekeepers, were knew that they would be taken care of because they’re, the ones not gon na make A lot of money at it, but they’re the ones really the the fuel of what’s pushing the boxes to get better and to pass that one level and this next level.
And if we increase that man, the fight is a tomorrow, they’d be fantastic.
But why would somebody get themselves incredibly beat up for very little money and then be you know, kind of uh disabled, sometimes afterwards, just with some of the uh neurological conditions and even probably internal issues that some people develop from boxing.
So i think that was kind of interesting.
I i you know you when we were talking about that.
You kind of sparked my um my mind turning there in that direction.
Well, without these journeymen you know and taking care of them, we wouldn’t have these up-and-coming prospects.
You know these journeymen are the ones that test these prospects to find the next superstar, and without these guys you know, we might not find that next superstar in boxing and i like how you’re saying that it’s true, i like how you said the level thing you Really made me start thinking with the levels and then we’re talking with paul, i’m learning i’m in, but i like that concept that you said right and you know, without these journeyman boxers to test these prospects.
You know put that pressure on them lean on them.
For all the rounds tie them up when they’re in the corners frustrate them.
You know test them and get them out of that, that mentality of the amateur boxing style and teaching them they’re literally teaching them the way of the pro, and without these guys you know, we wouldn’t find these superstars, and you know if we can’t take care of Them then, then, what the hell are we doing right now? Let me see hey paul.
Just let me say something real, quick.
Yes, it would there wouldn’t be no journeyman if there was a lot more good trainers.
You know what i’m saying that will keep them from stop losing, so so we in the future.
Let’S talk about this stuff is really important.
I know that’s important, but we need to get these journeyman’s right before they get germans.
We got to get the right guys.
Working with them so don’t become journeyman’s, go ahead.
Absolutely absolutely tim.
That’S you know the, and and and when you, when you talk about the the dangers of repetitive, repetitive, head drama in boxing you uh, you don’t just have fights, you have to go to the gym and you have to train and you got ta spar and grant It you know some, i heard somebody say the other day they go.
Oh you wear headgear.
When you’re aspiring, i talked to a doctor in las vegas and that doctor told me that when you have headgear that will protect you from cuts, but it will not protect.
You from the jarring of the head and then, which is what causes head trauma and cte a lot a lot of these.
A lot of these fighters too also suffer some of these injuries in sparring before before they get into the fight like a lot of people.
Don’T understand that you know these guys are taking a lot of damage when they’re when they’re getting ready for that fight.
You know that that last serious week is sparring before they take their rest before they get in the ring.
That’S where sometimes these injuries happen, yeah and uh yep absolutely – and i was i was nothing like you.
Tim was a world champion.
I was a club fighter.
I had like 12 pro fights, but man i i went to the gym and i did my sparring and that and you have to do that – i love boxing.
I love it, it’s a great sport, but it needs what we’re talk.
What we’re talking about tonight.
It needs to be put together with a union and uh, and and like i say, the great thing is the sport of boxing has no single corporate structure, so we have a chance to save the promoters.
Look if we can come together and do this and i’ve talked to bob arum and i’ve talked to the other, some of the other major promoters, and they, i think, understand that you got two ways that we can go either.
We can put it together and put it into a single corporate structure and make some money and everybody wins and the boxers are going to get taken care of and every or else we can go to court so either way either way you know we can.
We can go either way, but i’ll tell you if we go to court, we’re not going to lose and if we do it the other way there’s going to be a lot of winners.
So when it comes down to say, for example, in the film industry, you have various unions who are part of the production crew, not the actors, but the production, crew and those those unions are divided up by skill level.
Shall we say so they are paid? Not every person in the in the same union gets the same rate of pay.
It’S based on your skill and your experience, and they have various tickets that they issue to those uh crew members to determine their value.
For lack of better description, so i wonder if that might be a similar way of addressing the pay structure uh out of the gate like just given your experience, given your your your level of expertise as opposed to just saying, a journeyman is worth x amount of Dollars per fight and uh and that’s the same as what uh you know: a 54 year old who’s.
Just getting back – and i don’t know – but you know what i mean it’s a very funny example, but i would have to imagine you’re gon na have different um rates of pay for each different fighter.
Well, if, if you had, if you had a uh one of the important things about boxing and were very fortunate, is that every boxer and let’s take the united states to begin with, is licensed and it’s documented every time they’ve stepped in the ring and had a Fight it’s documented and registered who they fought.
What the result was how many rounds it went, etc, etc.
So we have a way of diagnosing immediately what the what the background is of a fighter, how many fights he’s had and etc, etc.
So we can.
We can take care of that part when we put this thing together for boxing we’ll know who every boxer is where they’re from how many fights they’ve had et cetera, et cetera.
We can do that, but that, but that’s that’s just uh.
That’S just a that’s just getting the people who are in the ring.
We have managers, trainers, referees judges, all of these people that are part of the sport and they’re going to be a part of this corporate structure as well, and we uh we will uh.
We will uh it’ll, be a long time coming and believe me when it comes to money and professional sports.
It’S the public that pays to pays the money.
That’S right and the public has been wanting forever for professional boxing to be put together, where you don’t get confused in their ranking, sanctioning blah blah blah.
Who is this who’s that how many belts appearing yeah yeah the boxes have been taken advantage of? Nobody cares about the boxers.
You know all of these problems can be taken care of um with with um with like parts of the union.
You were saying also like the coaching and the management and all that kind of stuff.
You were saying that one of the things is is better coaching out there would.
Would the union provide some sort of like structure for all coaching so that they’re all leveled at a certain level, so that that we can protect the fighters yeah? I think i think that um, some of those that someone like those left at those levels uh.
I think that somebody should be watching those guys um, you know, because they they can get groomed into they can get groom.
If there’s good trainers at that level, i’m sure they’re, the the the the thing about journeyman would die down.
They’Ll be more quebec, competitive um.
So that’s the area where i think need they need a lot of interest.
Why should it be a journeyman? It should be equal talent and equal.
You know uh everywhere, every all in the boxing game, so um um.
I know that they they get fighters to build another fighter up.
I think it should be equal everywhere.
Let him have a fair chance.
If you understand what i’m saying, let these guys as journeymans journeyman’s or don’t lead them into journalism, just just just just train them, so they don’t have to go that way and then we can eliminate the germany and it’ll be just fighters fighting fighters.
Tim tim, my my dear friend you’re an idealist, and i understand that 100, but i got to tell you you, and i both know that in this in the sport of boxing, you are going to have great undefeated champions.
You’Re going to have beginning pros, coming out of the coming out of the olympics, uh you’re, going to have pros coming out of the golden gloves, um you’re, going to have your club fighters and you’re going to have those, and that’s one of the reasons i think We’Re talking about a union okay, so we can.
We can take the the great champions, the club fighters and in the beginning, pros and everywhere everybody in between, and we can say: okay, if you’re going into boxing, there are going to be things that are going to happen to you, whether it’s getting proper management and This and that but you’re also going to get hit in the head, and when that, when that, when that concussive problem happens and a boxer has difficulties, they’re going to be able to turn to a union and not be able to start begging for help and standing On the street corner someplace with a hat um, this is a that’s one of the dignities about a union.
Is that it’s uh it’s a place where all the boxers can come back to and have a place that they can rely on to get help and assistance, and, like i say you can have pensions, that pay out money and you can have pensions that help you Get a job or help you help you get to go to college or whatever help you live a better, a better, a better life in your older age, exactly no healthcare brian.
I did like that what you were talking about earlier, you know getting the healthcare involved with you know.
Healthcare with this union would be great to provide that, because you know it is a combative sport.
These guys are gladiators, they are hitting each other, and you know over time your body breaks down and – and you don’t really find out, how hurt you are until you, you start to turn those you know senior years or your golden years and uh.
You know we’re gon na have something it definitely has to be something in place to take care of these guys.
Yes and i’m sorry paul, you know i’d be interested to know how many fighters on the lower levels, especially don’t have health insurance that’d, be interesting to know how many of them are probably not utilizing the health care system because they just can’t afford.
I mean health insurance is extremely expensive if you’re, not in a large organization like a corporation, it’s just ridiculously how many of them are actually have probably uh issues out of trauma.
That’S happened that could have been treated but due to not being able to afford it before the care um.
So that’s even something else to look at.
I don’t know if there is a health care program for combined for fighters like uh, where that i don’t know, if that’s under some envelope would that be something that uh would definitely be something to add to the union.
It’S uh is a a large healthcare.
Uh group, so you know it’s a lot cheaper, the more people the more combined and then, if you’re, getting assets in from outside corporations, uh help to lower the uh, the co-pays and and everything else, the cost of the insurance.
That would again also attract people to say boy.
I can get a really good health care program, but anyway, sorry i digress, but well, no, i think you’re spot on.
I think you make it.
You make an excellent point, the more people we all know.
This is how insurance works, the more people you have, the better benefits you get and if, if boxing was to put itself into a single corporate structure, there would be benefits available to boxers all boxers that right now, it’s uh it’s kind of a hit and miss Thing as you go but but as to your point, i think you’re exactly right.
I think there’s a lot of there’s a lot of fighters that just go through life, and this is what it is to be a boxer and you get done.
You get nothing and that’s what uh, if we’re successful in doing what we’re gon na what we’re gon na do here and we will be successful because it can’t be stopped.
Um they’re they’re gon na realize that hey, hey the people that i go to when my career is over is is by my fellow boxers and the organization that we have and there will be a lot of people across the united states.
I know from at least i believe that, like boxing no boxing that are very well off and would contribute money into a boxers pension plan, if uh, if they were uh so asked, i know question to you guys, because i i really don’t know like i said, I’M not an expert at this.
All is one step like let’s say we wanted to get something big done.
Um would one step be maybe uh appealing to some large corporations, the boxing boxing industry, uh and insurance companies to come together with uh an insurance plan, health insurance to start.
The first thing is to get a health insurance plan, that’s supplemented by uh, maybe corporate donations or whatever that could help right away start apply applying health care to some of these, and that would be the first thing fighters, say boy.
Look at this we’re already getting uh.
You know, because that’s a big big hot point nowadays is what kind of health insurance do you have and if you can introduce them to an health care program, that’s really good! Maybe they’ll start thinking well, what else can we get if they can get that done? What else can they get us and that might bring more of your average fighters on board with it and say boy? These guys got all this for us.
They were able to organize all this, and now i have a very affordable health care plan or a free one.
I don’t know how that would work or what it would look like.
I don’t know but um i don’t know, would you guys see that as an initial move to kind of uh make some headway show some ability to really get something done? Absolutely.
I’M sorry go ahead absolutely also up here in canada uh, for example, the musicians, independent musicians and there’s quite a few of them.
They can access programs not not at all to do with the government, but independently uh promoted programs uh they can join a federation.
For example, and that federation will provide them access to uh a health insurance program so as independent musicians and and by the way they could also, they also have the option of joining one of the much bigger international uh trade unions uh if they needed help uh.
If they got much bigger, quite frankly, uh, but that’s that’s a really good example, like the independent musicians, for example, um have to take care of themselves.
They have their own expenses very similar to boxers, although they do travel in a group.
But i’m just saying there are: there are ways around that, and that would be an excellent first step uh to provide boxers at any level access uh to universal healthcare through through proper uh insurance company.
It would be really cheap.
To be blunt, i mean, i think, these guys pay 10 bucks a month.
Yes, and i think that there would be insurance companies.
Obviously you would want one specific insurance company, because it would be better for them and better for us if they their fallen.
Members were paying into one insurance company, but um.
There are pension plans available that will be able to um that would be and other individuals as well.
That would be very, very interested in getting involved with this and uh and giving boxers whom the story has been written about in motion.
Pictures told about in books forever about boxers that need assistance, and one of the dignities is that, rather than going around and asking for help, they will have their own organization to help themselves.
Yes, but i was, i was agreeing with brian’s point uh as well, that as a first step, uh, a tangible benefit to towards a union would be to provide healthcare benefits through an insurance company.
I think that’s easily done to be blunt well and if yes, and if you uh, that would be something that yeah i i i think that would be something we should put together and maybe talk about um approaching an insurance company and saying uh.
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