A Chapter of Womens Boxing History | The Sugar Show with Natalie Brown

Natalie discusses a chapter of women’s boxing history.

The SUGAR Show is a series focused on Women’s Boxing. Natalie SUGAR Brown visits all aspects of Women’s Championship Boxing involving both up-and-coming and seasoned amateur and professional female boxers, along with studio segments covering headlines and developments across the sport. The program primarily broadcasts on Wednesday nights at 7:30 pm eastern time, weekly.

Watch Live on TalkinFight.com or YouTube.com/c/TalkinFight

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Transcribed:

[, Music, ], hey y’all, it’s sugar here and you know what time it is if sugar’s in the building or if sugar’s outside i’m outside it must be 7 30 on a wednesday, and we out here talking women’s boxing so um, i’m gon na introduce myself my Name is natalie sugar brown.

I have been an elite fighter for uh, the the last uh 20-plus years.

Yes, i am, and i am a crone as they would call us um.

I have been ranked in the top level or i have been an elite fighter for the majority of my career as a fighter and now with this sugar show i’m here to provide some insight in the world into the world of women’s boxing.

So i ain’t talking about women who are in boxing right because um the lines get blurred there, everybody everybody wants.

Um.

Everybody wants some clout.

Everybody wants some shine in this industry, even the man’s right, but it’s about we’re talking about us who bleed or have blood in there.

Us who have uh signed our name and taken the risk of our life to do this and to move the industry forward.

So tonight uh i’m going to share a bit of women’s boxing history with y’all one of the chapters, one of an important, interesting chapter and uh.

Like i always say, please, please please chime in ask questions.

You don’t have to know anything about this, because not many people know about women’s boxing, even the people that claim to know right.

This is the platform of we just easy and we’re having a conversation.

Um we’re having a conversation of just this perspective.

Being a woman uh in in this industry, in the boxing industry, uh and the life of a female gladiator, okay, so uh tonight we’re gon na talk about one of women’s boxing’s mega fights: okay, yes, mega! Okay um! That term has been thrown around loosely in in um.

You know in talks nowadays and talks uh in for the past uh decade, mega women mega.

But do you all know what mega is in women’s boxing? What does mega mean mega is not two broads fighting? No um, it goes a lot deeper for women in women’s boxing, our fights weren’t against each other.

Our fights were started off or our fights started off against the institutions of those who kept boxing our mega fights.

Our biggest fights were against those gatekeepers that wanted to keep us out of the dance, and you know i always say this, because i’ve learned this from my elders, uh and, and a lot of them were just so funny this way where they’ve said um, if you Can’T get in through the front door.

Sometimes you got to climb through a window right and when i heard that when i went as a youth hearing that i understood that okay, it’s all about perspective right you’re, not going to be welcome there everywhere into every party right.

But that doesn’t mean you can’t get in and once you’re in that’s when you can have some fun okay and you can let some of your other people in too and then we can have our own party in the party, which is what’s happening right now right.

So women’s boxing is a party in the party yeah, we got our own world, we got our own uh rules, we got our own social um dealings.

We we got our own beefs.

We we got our own issues that that we we face right and um a lot of people, compare us or want to always compare us to men and mailboxing um when we first started or or when it got really popular around the 90s.

A lot of people wanted to see or wanted to infer that oh women are going to start fighting men now and that really was not the that was not the intent of women boxing right.

The intent of women boxing is.

We want to compete with our fellow women to see who’s the best who’s, the baddest, who will go there.

It was never about stepping up to fight a man or a male.

They ain’t got nothing to do with this right, so um going into the story now we’re talking about um.

This particular story tonight because recently uh for the first time, women have been inducted into the international boxing hall of fame.

That’S huge! Why? Because they never saw us before they didn’t see us and now look at us.

We get invited to the dance.

We got some, ladies, that are got tables at the dance now and it’s it feels good.

It feels good, but there are still.

There is still a lot of controversy with the names that have been inducted into the international boxing hall of fame and i’m using my platform.

The sugar show to clear some things up because, like i said earlier, people out here think they know about women’s boxing and they don’t know [ __ ] about women’s boxing right.

So quote me just like they quote: uh uncle roger right, saying that oh well, he don’t know [ __ ] about boxing.

You don’t know [ __ ] about women’s boxing, but i’ma tell you something right! I’M gon na enlighten you tonight, okay, so the story starts off.

In 1974.

, two women female fighters walk into the new york state, athletic commission and they fill out their application because they’re excited to become professional boxers and they had nothing to do with women female.

They wanted to be professional, pugilis right, and so their names were jackie, atanawanda and uh.

Miriam tremar, so they walked into the office, filled out their application and, of course, being women going into the athletic commission to get a professional license to do anything was preposterous.

At the time, because it was against the rules but hey um, they went in they wanted to see what you know they wanted to see what would happen so when in they went in there and despite the sarcasm, despite being left out of the office, they still Had the um, they still had the.

What word do i want to use? They still had the hope that they would one day be a professional fighter right, it’s just so simple.

Nowadays, you can go into your local commission and fill out an application and be which and be a fighter right um.

But at this time you had to be a certain type of person to go.

Get your boxing license so um uh, jackietonawanda and miriam tremar were denied their boxing license: okay, um the the new york state commission, which is a group of people who agree or decide whether to pass through a request or not.

They unanimously denied both women of their professional boxing license.

Um there was an actual rule stated that no woman may be a licensed boxer second or licensed to compete in any wrestling exhibition, either with men, okay, so basically with men, meaning that you couldn’t even be on a card fighting right.

So you couldn’t fight another woman on the same card boxing card as men, so there it is okay, now the gate, they closed, the gate on us on women, okay, it’s a rule right.

The chairman of the new york, uh athletic commission, and i ain’t even gon na, speak his name.

Okay, but i mean, if you want to look it up, it is i i want you to look it up.

These uh sugared sugar talks about this, or i talk about these things because i’m not or or my show is not about reeling out numbers and reeling out.

You know all of these facts or whatever, because guess what they ain’t facts.

The numbers aren’t real.

None of that stuff is the truth.

It’S made up it’s based on who remembers it’s based on who decided to make an account that that actually happened yeah, and i don’t go for that right.

I my coach, johnny gant, used to say this speaking to somebody who went to school and studied and read a book about how to fly a plane is a different conversation than speaking to someone who is actual.

Who is an actual pilot right here.

Those bars now reading a book about something and actually living that life is two different conversations and that’s where they conflict right.

I’M on this platform, the sugar show is real.

I’M telling you that real because i lived it, i’m not telling you a number, i’m not telling you a date, not telling you none of that, because i lived it.

Those who haven’t lived it got ta, give you numbers, they got ta.

Give you those things to entertain you right, because they can’t give you that hard one, hard-fought, authentic perspective of that life? Okay, but i would love if some of you guys chimed in with the numbers.

Please um, i always have my i.

I always have my participants and and and fans that drop in or or people my my people out there that drop in that drop.

Some jewels drop.

Some information drop some numbers, uh and dates, and all of that stuff that that we can um.

We can refer back to so you know i’ll, let y’all let y’all bring the numbers but uh.

What i’m doing is i’m i’m spitting that ether that reel that fire, okay, so um.

I digress back to the story.

Okay, so um, the chairman of the athletic, commit the new york athletic commission had been quoted to say that licensing female boxers would erode the sports image the sport of boxing’s image as a manly art of self-defense.

Now you hear that bull jive.

Let me tell you what that means, or let me tell you what that translates to in in real life mileage and perspective.

Those type of men are the type of men in the gym where, if you step into the space with them all of a sudden, they feel like they’re, not a man anymore, just by me being here just by me stepping into the space.

Now i have um.

I i have now done something to where you don’t feel like you’re, a man anymore.

I i have um imposed on your manhood.

Just just from my presence.

Let me go even further.

You got some men now like that who are outside the ring, but then there’s some men that are in the boxing ring like that right.

So i’ll give you a story about i’ll.

Give you one of my stories um, you know just starting off as a young woman boxing i um, i i had no, there was very few other women in the gym, if any so i mostly sparred with men and not to say that there weren’t men or Young men out there that were very encouraging and and were very helpful in my growth and development as a fighter they they they didn’t coddle me right.

They showed me what the hell it was in there and and what what i needed to expect and expect to be in there.

So i’m grateful for that, but you got you had the other ones, which i am also grateful for that were um intimidated.

Just the presence of a woman in the ring with them so going into to sparring or going in boxing with a male as a as a female.

Now is a different game plan right, because i have to understand and respect the fact that i am a woman and a lot of the time i’m not going to be physically stronger than the man that i’m in the ring with man, strength.

Women’S strength are different strengths, they’re still strengths, okay, uh, some women – don’t get that some men don’t get that right, but i had to quickly uh come to terms with that.

So as i’m boxing or as i get as i get the experience of boxing different sparring partners, i understand that or i saw that some men, some males young men, were uh very privy to that understanding.

They they knew what that meant, and some men had no clue right.

So some men used their strength to show me, or did she use their strength in reservation and taking that man strength off the playing field off the chessboard and use this right? Because boxing is all about this yeah.

We use this right, but there’s a strategy and a plan behind this and those men that i went into the ring with and i sparred they actually um.

[ Music ] used me to help them elevate their iq as fighters in there right.

They respected me as a fighter enough to look at me as a fighter to know that i can think just like them.

I can come up with a plan just like that, and they wanted to see what i know and i pressed them.

I i i pressed them.

Yes, i put some things together.

I got them sometimes.

I won some rounds off the strength of this and understanding that skills pay the bills and it’s how you apply those skills right.

But then there were some sparring sessions where i put something together and i catch a guy and all of a sudden.

Oh my gosh he’s not a man anymore.

He turned that he turned the male energy straight up and now that’s all he’s using and he’s flashing me around and pushing me around and he’s hitting me hard yeah right, because he wants me to know that he’s a man which is quite obvious: dude you’re you’re, A man or you’re male and i’m female, but i’m not going to quit, you’re not going to make me quit because i got this and i got skills that pay the bills.

So the more i used, my brain and the more i use strategy to get over in the sparring session and and win those battles that went down in each round the more they left or got away from their mental capacity of being a fighter and got into Their ego of being a man some sessions, i got hurt, yet some sessions had to be stopped, but guess what sugar never quit never quit, because i understood that that was the um that was the battleground, that was a playing field, um understanding that um some some – That it was a matter of a person’s manhood me boxing was a matter of someone proving their manhood per se against me and and had to prove them that their their men, just like the rest of the men that were in the gym or or had to Represent for all men that ain’t no woman going going get a shot in on them or ain’t.

No woman, gon na beat them in a sparring match, go fig.

Sugar’S still here standing and i can still say my whole name: natalie brown, that’s my whole name.

I remember it: okay, some of you guys out there and i’m sorry to say this.

Bring this up.

Y’All can’t even get past the first syllable, and it’s because right that ego, you use you.

You use the discipline of boxing to get in the way of elevating yourself to a better or a different perspective of life and getting through and getting and being successful, because really that’s what boxing is boxing is the personification of achieving a goal.

You start you start from the training right up until you get into the ring right.

You have to achieve small milestones and small goals to get to the bigger picture right and that’s why i believe everyone should box not not competitively, but everyone should apply themselves to some kind of martial art or that kind of discipline.

Because um, you really you you realize who you really are you realize the fabric that you’re made of when you participate instead of spectate um? But i digress going back to the story or by going back to this page, this chapter in women’s boxing history, okay, so um the industry for the industry of of boxing for women was now stacked obstacles right because in the 1970s there there was still um racial Tension, you know there was still prejudice right where certain people certain classes, certain groups, were more valuable than the other groups and there was um segregation where we there there were.

We couldn’t even come together.

You know we couldn’t even have relationships right um.

This was like fresh off the civil civil rights movement, so not everyone got it.

Okay, and now we have women who dared to step outside the lines of even that and and and press and press the status quo of the whole perspective of what women represented and what women should be right.

So these two young, ladies, i love them with my heart and soul because i wouldn’t be – i wouldn’t be sugar without them stepped in and stepped up to make the first step for great this great great um turning point in history to happen.

So uh mariam, uh, tramar and jackie tonawanda were denied their licenses unanimously by the new york athletic state.

Uh new york state, athletic commission, okay, um jackie, who i think she was about uh, jackie tenawanda, who was about 27 years old at the time.

I think um like, like i said these numbers and and these um dates are um hit or miss right, but she was a young woman at the time that wanted to do something out outside of what anyone else could imagine her and tiger uh miriam tramar, jackie Tonawanda then went to the human rights commission of new york where she made the argument that uh, her being denied her license to fight professionally revoked her ability to make a living right.

Because, okay, how are you going to deny uh? How are you going to deny a doctor his or her license? They can’t legally practice they’re breaking the law every time they do something that they have been trained to do or something that would make their living where everyone else is practicing the same thing right.

So jackie uh pivoted or she she took another angle on that which i absolutely love right because, like i said perspective, is the key right.

They went through the door, they went and tried to go through the door and the door was slammed in their face.

Jackie seemed to be a slick slick one she seemed to be.

You know she said.

No, it’s not going down like that.

That’S my human.

My human right is to be able to make a living.

I want to professionally make a living as a pugilist as a boxer as a fighter so um.

The new york commission now came back with their rebuttal, saying that it was a safety issue.

Okay, women needed special equipment to ensure their safety, because you know we got.

We got different baubles and different jiggles than you guys are certain y’all jiggles are are in different places than our jiggles.

Let’S put it that way.

Okay, all right! It said i mean it’s my show and i’m trying to keep it i’m trying to keep it pg.

But you know, if you know you know um, so it that being the case, they’re saying that you know they, there was no equipment at the time.

That would ensure the safety of our jiggles or to save our um uh immediate safely.

Safety in participating in in you know, um in this combative sport, okay, um, and they stuck with that where jackie tonto wanda still she she stayed in court with them.

Uh continuing to press her argument of her human.

Her basic human rights have have been, you know denied, because she she cannot make a living the living that she wants to so um uh.

Then you know the fight kept going on.

Uh tiger went on a hunger strike.

Okay, so uh miriam tiger tramar actually went on a hunger strike.

I believe it was for something like two months.

She did not eat.

She stood outside of madison square garden, protesting okay, she shaved her head.

She did all of these things to get the attention she was a female fighter.

She was a female gladly and she exists right where people wanted to deny her very existence.

Okay, so that’s huge right! This is one young woman.

These are young women who now have devoted their life to changing the scope.

Okay, so um now 1977 comes around.

Where some states got the some states got it right.

Some states were more progressive.

13 states uh allowed women to box okay, but new york still stood on their denial of allowing women to box professionally.

Under the law it was still uh illegal in new york, okay, so um i’ll name, those states i’ll name, a couple states.

Okay, so uh we had texas uh where barbara barbara bruce brewtrick yeah buttrick.

Yes, sorry but sorry, mama, barb um.

You know that you, it’s not disrespectful.

Sugar is just bad with names, but she i mean that she has a deeper story deeper roots than than this into it, where i will visit in another um chapter of women’s boxing, but we’re talking about uh.

We we’re talking about miriam um, tramar, jackie, tonawanda and and kathy davis, kathy davis, who i’m introducing right now into the plot.

Okay into the story into the history.

So um 1977 comes around.

Women are boxing.

In 13 of the 50 states, okay um new york stood by their denial of legally allowing women to box.

Okay um.

So therefore, guess what i’m gon na give you some real perspective of what was going on at that time.

It’S not that women weren’t boxing.

It’S not that women weren’t fighting, we was doing that best underground yeah.

We were underground fighting, we were fighting in the strip clubs.

We were fighting into mud wrestling, um clubs.

We were going across the border, fighting people, we were still fighting just because y’all say or just because a commission says or just because there was no sanctioning body saying that we were legitimately doing something don’t mean we weren’t still behaving badly okay, so women were still Fighting okay, uh, i believe – and i i would definitely believe uh uh marion tramar might have had some underground fights.

I believe that jackie tunawanda may have had some underground ground fights and many other women were doing that um.

I’M say i said that to say this at the recent induction of jackie tunawanda, um, lovely assistant, can you put these pic can do? I have some images that you could put up? I’M sorry, yeah um, i’m hoping that my face could get side by side.

But if not, we we could keep going okay, so um.

That i mean this is an article showing the the the women, along with the great floyd patterson who who served on the new york state commission um, actually getting the right.

This article shows them in the commissioner’s office actually receiving their boxing licenses.

Okay, so you got jackie tunnel wanda on the far left.

Okay, then you got kathy cat davis in the middle okay and then you have the legendary uh lady miriam tiger tramar on the right.

With the ball head, she’s born to baldi next to the legend, floyd patterson, okay, so um i mean this.

This is the this is the documentation.

Okay, this is where it starts for some people, but it been been for for many of us, okay uh do.

I have another image, um, lovely assistant.

I know i got people listening in right, but i i got pictures right so um and i want you guys to look these ladies up too, so the um image that’s up right now is jackie tuna wanda, and i started off with her because in the uh In the recent international boxing hall of fame, she was inducted uh.

She she she’s no longer with us r.

i.

p champion right, but there are a lot of people up in arms.

A lot of um means out there because that’s who i seen got, they got they briefs and they boxers in a wad between they they behind parts about this woman getting inducted into the international hall boxing hall of fame, because they said they said they said they Said she never fought, they said she uh lied.

They said she didn’t do what you clearly see her dressed up to do.

They said she only had one fight in her entire career and it was a sanctioned fight with some one else.

I’M i i don’t know that i don’t know the other contender’s name, but just to let you know she actually had a fight with someone else.

She had a fight with another contender.

Okay.

So if women weren’t fighting where they, where are we? Where are they finding other women to fight right? So she fought another contender at madison square garden.

Okay and she lost that fight, and you know it was a big laugh or whatever, because from what i understand of jackie tundawanda’s personality is she was in your face.

She’S going to tell you what it is who she was okay and she might even stretch the truth.

Just like a lot of fighters do male and female.

We did a lot of us talk to talk, [ __ ], a lot of us um blow blow ourselves and blow each other up bigger than who we really are it’s a part of the game right, but now we have these people that all of a sudden, They know her, they know the story and they’re invalidating who she is.

And oh it’s a travesty that she got inducted rocky is inducted.

I said rocky rocky balboa is inducted in the international boxing hall of fame was rocky balboa, even a fighter.

Did he even exist? No and he’s inducted into the international hall of fame.

Why come why? Why now? Is it a travesty that this woman, whether she was real or not, she i mean she got documentation.

She walked in to get her license.

She put her name on the line.

She fought the institutions that denied her right of of becoming an a a legal fighter right.

How and why come now.

She is not a candidate to be inducted into the hall of fame, okay um! No, that that’s not it’s not gon na.

It doesn’t work like that right, um women.

She i do believe that she may have fought underground, unsanctioned fights, okay, um, and so that’s why the spotlight is on her um.

She deserves to be there.

She deserves her spot in the hall of fame.

She may she rest in peace.

Her name carries on for her efforts because if it wasn’t for her efforts, a lot of us, your katie taylor, your cecilia breakers, your other punks out there that y’all do celebrate, wouldn’t be here.

Okay, so next image – lovely assistant – and you know many of us uh many other greats in the industry – wouldn’t be here – i mean you laila ali – wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for jackie tanawanda and miriam tramar and kathy kat davis right, her daddy, wouldn’t want to Sign up for that, he didn’t like it.

I like he, he laughed at these.

Ladies right, he wasn’t.

He wasn’t about that women’s fight in life, okay, um, okay, so i mean you’re gon na you’re you’re.

Looking at another image here where this is jackie, tom wanda fighting a male um, he seems to be some kind of wrestler in martial arts.

But these are the type of unsanctioned bouts that happen that female fighters female boxers signed up to do just for the opportunity to fight to get in the ring and fight.

It mean that it meant that much to a woman like us or a woman like me or women like us, yes yeah, that path meant that much to us or means that much to us right and because we took that path.

Now, some of you all have a job right.

Your eddie hearn now has a cash cow and katie taylor.

Where he’s making millions of dollars off of her okay, jane couch, i see you, i’ve been seeing you over there um britain’s um royalty.

She is uh over there, boxing uh women’s boxing royalty out of britain.

She put her life on the line, jane couch, she put herself on the line and they they stonewalled her right.

But do you see her at? Do you see her being honored at any of their um any of their events? Do you see any of these british broads out here, even mentioning that the great jane couch right they have a job.

They can make some money because of these women right, but it um, they think the show’s about them.

Okay, so we we’re gon na keep going we’re gon na keep going.

It looks like the evening’s coming in so i’m i’m gon na continue with the story.

So 1977 um, you know the different states came in 1978 now uh the girl cat, the broad uh kathy cat davis came on the scene, um and uh.

Please please uh change.

Please change my image.

Please keep going change the image and um that’s tonawanda again, uh in in the ring an unsanctioned bout, okay, uh fighting a guy right and you could see if she didn’t fight or she couldn’t fight she.

She was definitely putting them putting it together in this image.

You guys who are not watching uh, but the youtube show who are listening in come.

Uh check me out on talk and fight on my platform.

Uh we on youtube come come, find me, i’m out here: okay, um next image, you guys so kathy cat davis, i’m trying to get to now cathy cat.

Now, okay, that’s tonna, wanda um that that’s her in the ring.

That’S a another fight or keep let’s.

Let’S keep going through so kathy kat davis, next image uh there she goes blonde uh, young, lady, okay, so tiger tramar and um, i’m sorry, miriam, tamar and jackie tanawanda are both um would be considered.

Black women, okay, women of color and um, cathy cat davis, is now she is a blond-haired white young, lady, okay and she came in around 1978.

But her appeal is she was she had the market? It is what it is right.

Those two young black women that wasn’t the time for them.

They weren’t going to get that attention, so kathy cat davis comes in four years later in 1978, with her story and um, she was the first woman to grace the cover of a major athletic magazine.

They put her on the cover of ring magazine, the boxing bible.

They call they call ring magazine uh boxing, the boxing bible, uh change, the image for me baby, please my lovely assistant, so um.

This is an article about um for those who are looking at my images and those are listening.

Now she has some press.

Cathy cat davis has some press she’s getting an audience.

People are reading about her they’re looking at her they’re, seeing her face, she’s marketable she’s, attractive she’s, appealing right.

So they see that she’s, a woman and she gets down and dirty in there and some of y’all men’s out there, starting to like it, and some of us women out here, are starting to say, yeah, that’s what we do a lot of us women right.

Some of us didn’t agree with the approach of cathy cat davis right.

Some were more hard-edged, you know want to say she’s, not a real fighter right, but kathy was a real fighter right.

She got in there.

She she trained.

She did she.

She tried her best.

Like many of the the other women’s fighters that was out, there was doing right in sanction and unsanctioned bouts.

She was getting down and dirty.

Okay, so um kathy now had the media behind her, which was very powerful.

Okay.

So thank you kathy.

I love you with my all my heart and soul: okay uh.

I don’t know if you was a prejudiced woman or not, but you know what you did did did something for me because i wouldn’t be sitting here: natalie sugar brown.

If it wasn’t for your efforts and if it wasn’t for what you did to add to this story – okay, now um kathy uh also pursued licensing getting a license uh in new york state, because this is where the fights were happening.

Aside from las vegas, madison square garden, maddie was where maddie since square garden was where it went down: okay and um.

But you know women wanted a chance.

Female fighters.

Women boxers wanted the chance to to be there and and to have a piece of that action.

Okay, um cat davis pursued getting her license aggressively, okay and and so uh.

Her market appeal with the media behind her uh was a another big push as into where now, in 1978 um, the athletic commission finally pulled off it, stopped pressing and and and allowed these women these three women to get an actual professional boxing license.

So we had one that went to the human rights commission, okay, um, jackie tunnelwanda, we and and and fought for that right to make a living as a fighter.

Then we had lady tri tiger tramar that sacrificed herself and and and she shaved her head.

She she went on a hunger strike, she stood in front of madison square garden, so people could see that women were fighting female fighters, existed right and and and they she she made her struggle where she made the struggle, something that now attracted attention.

And then, here we had cathy cat davis now brought in that sex appeal that she used her womanly wiles to bring more attention and to bring the media into the public.

Seeing that women were being denied a basic right of being able to make a living as pugilists okay, so it all came together in 1978, and these three women went to the new york athletic state commission and they received their official boxing professional boxing license now.

Listen to this now, okay industry.

The boxing industry was and is still riddled with prejudice.

Okay, still riddled with um uh uh racism still riddled with um.

You know just the the ugly things that that stop all of us from having that equality of existence right um certain fighters had more value than others based on their race and and and that’s right, um, certain uh, that there was um.

What is the word there? There there were um – goodness you guys uh, i i’m on here, and you know how you get where the word is right here, but it can’t come out of here.

I’M not punch drunk it’s just that, i’m at a loss for words right now, um uh, that there was.

Where did i i made my notes here because i have to say the word: is it um segregation? That’S the word.

So the industry was segregated.

There was racism and institutionalized sexism too, now right right, because now not only are the men’s fighting among each other and separating each other right.

Black fighters could only fight black fighters.

Hispanic fighters could only fight hispanic fighters, white fighters could only fight uh white fighters and so on right.

They were now holding hold uh pressing the door closed, so women couldn’t get involved right so yeah.

We we had our own fight, but you, women, stay out of this.

Y’All can’t come and join okay.

So, being a woman now taking on this system, taking on this industry was a big big uptaking, you read about it and it sounds easy but being rejected on so many levels, because you can’t get fighting out your system.

I still get up in the mornings.

I still run, and i still shadowbox and i suppose i would be doing this until i’m old and gray.

My grandkids will probably be watching grandma do her shadowbox and then shadowboxing with her with me right.

They’Ll have the story now that yeah my grandmama box, my grandma, was a champion so proud of that.

I’M so proud.

When my when my son says it, my mom was one of the best fighters in the world so proud of that right.

But with that story, i’ve lived rejection after rejection after rejection, and it was the story of these.

Ladies, these, ladies, that kept me going when i became a mother when i was ignored by the media when i, when there was segregation when i had to go underground because sugar yeah there’s a story of sugar going underground too.

Just to fight.

So read the story that i tell you about the life because i lived it.

Okay, each woman played a part.

Each woman is important in the puzzle.

Pieces change my image.

Please change my image, lovely assistant.

Please change my image right.

Each woman, there, you see kathy cat davis in there with another contender fighting change my image again, please, okay, so these women are that women been been we’ve been been out here.

We’Ve been been behaving badly out here.

You got a legendary trainer here: teaching kathy cat davis, the philly shell, the shoulder roll bin bin skills been been passed down from one young lady from one woman to the other to the other, from men teaching us how to be gladiators.

How to navigate this industry? How to be baddies out here right this cute mess that you see now it’s very refined, it’s very disney.

Okay, um! The stories must be told.

The stories must be told right because these these young, ladies they’re doing their best they’re trying they’re at the olympics right um, they’re they’re doing their best to represent, but many of them don’t even know the foundation that they stand on, which is very disrespectful.

The first thing i did when i got into boxing was: i looked up.

Who did it before me, how they did it? Why they did it, so i can have a better understanding of where i was in the game and how i was going to transcend the game right.

There was an olympics, but there was an olympic team before clarissa shields even made it to the olympics.

She calls herself the gwat baby.

You are gr, you are good, but you are not great right.

There were women.

You stand on the shoulders of a lot of great women who could fight who went three rounds, who stood in there with men who got hurt, who bled for you to run your mouth.

I appreciate what you’ve done clarissa shields.

I love you too, with all my heart.

I respect what you’ve done some of the things you do.

I don’t like, but you know it’s just that’s just a personal, that’s a personal difference right, but that what talk greatest woman of all time? Absolutely not don’t do that right, because even ali who came out with the goat greatest of all time when i’m the greatest of all time when they set his ass down and ask him, do you really think you’re the greatest of all time he cleared it up And he said, no sugar ray robinson is the greatest of all time and sugar, ray robinson, didn’t step on that one olympic podium.

Okay, you must acknowledge who was here first um, lovely assistant.

Please give me more photos more photos, please um, because i’m only seeing the uh, the the one with it.

We we got lady tiger tramar, okay, so we she called herself lady she’s miriam tiger mars.

She called herself lady tiger tramar because she’s not leaving out the fact that she’s a lady, that’s whooping, ass in there.

Okay, i love i mean this is her and her pride.

She she wasn’t a crone here she was abroad.

She was a baddie here, keep going give me another image, please that was her when she first started uh the in in in the gym um.

I i i’m hoping fingers crossed that you know i can connect and get her she, i i don’t bring guests on my on on the sugar show um, but bringing bringing the great lady tiger tramar on my show she is not a guest.

She is the reason why i have a show so um she’s a catalyst for for which for what you’re sitting in on so i’m hoping that i can bring her in and and and she can, she can really tell you she could she can spit that real Ether on the sugar, shell, okay, i’m hoping to get some some other royalty on this show, because you know some these it it.

It is not a a female fighter.

Is now just relative right, they’re! All! Well, you! Oh you come out.

You want to know you’re a champion compared to a crone who is is um, 36 and so and so right, a female fighter is a female fighter.

No, no! No! No! We’Re not all relative right there, their layers, their their layers to this onion and it gets real funky and y’all wan na y’all would want to hear this a lot of these stories and and a lot of these hard-fought stories and and past and journeys right, because It’S not about what we do in the ring right.

We ain’t.

We ain’t that nice, yet there’s some of us that are skilled and some of us, but the the the appeal is the performance and the performance is based on the experience.

What a bad broad went through, what that crone has turned into right.

That’S the performance! That’S the ass whooping that she brings to the ring, or that’s the that’s, the fight that she brings if she gets beat up or beat being a crone in there.

It ain’t about the youngins.

It’S about the crones.

A female fighter is at her very best as a crone.

That’S after the age of 35.

she’s ripe, she’s ready.

She has lived her story.

Okay, that’s the cycle.

Uh.

Give me give me that next image, please um lovely assistant, so we got um.

We we got now tiger she’s the lady tiger tramar in this image.

For those who are are just i mean you guys are listening, y’all are hearing, but the images are there.

This image is just of her being that broad uh, this image going through the industry ups and downs, ins and outs, and you could still you could see the fight in her eyes right.

She doesn’t have that innocent.

Look of those pictures that you saw before right.

I’M i’m showing you the evolution of one of the baddest [ __ ], to have ever done this [ __ ], okay, next image, please um, and this is the image it’s making me emotional, that i love so much of lady tiger chamar, because you can see Now that she is a crone in this picture, you can see the look on her face where she’s been through all that [ __ ] she’s accepted it she’s accepted it.

She knows who she is.

Uh she’s been through the wringer.

She got that mohawk and she’s.

Saying in this picture, i’m me come get it.

She got that smile on her face.

She got that look in her eye right because she got that.

Look in her eyes is telling everybody i got so many tricks up.

My emma at mofo sleeve come.

Try me right: it’s not that balled up look now like.

Oh, i got something to prove and she’s.

Looking at you like yeah, i i come teach i’m i’m you’re gon na learn today.

You’Re gon na learn getting in it with me right, uh next image.

Please um – and this is the last image um i’m going to put on here – uh of the baddest that the one of the baddest [ __ ], that ever did it one of the baddest broads that ever did this lady tiger tramar.

You could see in this picture: she’s bald, okay, she’s much older.

She got that color to her and she’s sporting diamond hoops in her ears with the with the boxing gloves on with the red lipstick.

With that look in her eye, i got it.

I’M me i’m here.

I love this picture too right because in this image, or if you people, if everyone who hasn’t listened, been listening, um to me describe the image, the image is showing a female fighter who has owned.

Her journey has owned the path that she walked to become, who she is in this fight game.

In boxing she made her name uh.

It may not have not been a popular name at the time now she’s getting her flowers.

Now everybody wants to know.

Lady tiger trend, right now, everybody kissing on her cheek now everybody’s taking pictures and hanging on her skirt tail or her rope the tail of her robe.

But this was the times when.

Where was you at right? No one knew who she was.

She had to re introduce herself every time she stepped on that square and she owned it every time so uh that is the conclusion of tonight’s sugar show.

I wish i had people chiming in, but you know it was a story, time kind of night and um.

You know we’ll we will revisit we’ll we’ll visit a lot of paths and journeys walked by some of the baddest [ __ ], who ever did it? And yes, i used that term of endearment right because when you’re boxing you’re not nice, when you’re fighting as a woman, you’re, not nice, you’re, a [, __, ], you’re doing you’re doing things to break down offset disrupt someone else’s plan, whether it be your your opposition.

In front of you, and that’s not nice right, so that’s a term of endearment.

It’S not it’s, not it! It’S! It’S not a derogatory term.

In this sense, we own that, as as female fighters, we have a history mma.

Ladies right, we was the one.

It was.

This story, while you why you was able to get a license to do your wrestling and your mma license or whatever so that ronda rousey [ __ ] that that was years ago when they were talking about, she was the most dangerous or whatever.

But you see who dethroned her, though holly holm a boxer who came out of nowhere that stepped in the octagon right and when she got kicked all up in her chin, and then she got the the three piece after she really realized.

What gang gang was out was out here: okay, so yes, representing for female or women’s boxing right, yes, female fighting, but women’s boxing in particular right because we are the ones that had the story, we’re the ones that make the story.

We us right.

We put our lives on the line just so these other women can have a platform and an opportunity to show their disciplines as well.

Okay, so uh, i am going to bid everybody.

I do tonight thanks for coming and watching the sugar show tonight.

Uh like subscribe, share this sugar, okay, and if you have any questions, please i mean uh, there’s down down if you’re looking at it from youtube or any other platform platform leave a comment.

Ask me a question.

Of course, i will get right i’ll get back to it: okay, uh there’s some other there’s some other stuff, interesting stuff happening, always in women’s boxing and we’ll talk about it every wednesday night at 7, 30.

So until next wednesday night at 7, 30.

see you guys.

Next time enjoy your weekend, bye-bye