AIR DATE:
EPISODE: Episode 1
Our group of panelists, including champ Tim Witherspoon and author Lou Eisen, provide another weekly roundup of boxing headlines and an array of updates about upcoming bouts and boxers – and share current events and news with the many fans across the world that enjoy the great sport of Boxing!
Transcribed
It’S just me right now, couple of people have called in sick a couple.
People are away from their desks and a couple people are out of country, so uh, let’s start off with just a couple of little Recaps with respect to some of the fights that we’ll be watching here on talk and fight, uh, F Jaga is GNA, defend his Wbc silver title against Joe gutal: that’s coming up uh tomorrow night coming to us, live from the Tahoe Blue Event Center in Lake Tahoe Nevada, uh um.
Can you hear me? Oh you, there Lou hang on one second Lou’s joining me one! Second, there he is yes.
I can hear you hi Lou hi, how you doing boy was I wrong about last week.
Yes, tropically wrong, yes, uh! Yes, you you picked the Buster Douglas of all fights on that one um, that’s! I was much more wrong than that.
Yeah.
Well, nagu was really fit and ready, and I think uh Tyson Fury was not ready.
Simply right.
I I I scored it.
I I scored it for Fury by one point, but that in in essence, is a loss.
I mean he he he he got manhandled by this guy and uh.
The knockdown was legitimate, but his balance was off, but that’s his fault right yeah and this this garbage that we’ve been hearing that uh he’s a great technical boxer like Ali.
He squares up against everyone right.
You know right, so he he just squared up against the guy who he couldn’t hurt and guy was the Southpaw.
He didn’t know what to do and I laughed all week when people said, but don’t worry, he’ll he’ll easily beat usk and I thought are you kidding? No usk will will take him 12 round unanimous decision and fury Frank Warren’s already delayed the fight from to February and when I spoke with Russ Amber Russ said we’re not counting on anything in.
In other words, I don’t think that fight’s gon na even happen wh.
Why why fight uh bums like Derek chur and dillian white, all the time after you’ve beaten them a couple times? It’S a joke! Yes, exactly exactly! So what what do you think that about our friend Eddie Hearn, saying uh, his boy Joshua is gon na get in the ring with nanu? Next? What do you think about that? I, I don’t think that’s a smart move.
You know because usk’s, a southpaw and Joshua could land a punch and Nano can hit and a lost to Nano would beic to Josh.
If he’s gon na lose fight, Deontay Wilder and get incredible money rather than in the ganu yeah, so we will see what happens next um but Eddie hearn’s talking about Henry Cooper, fighting the ganu and Cooper’s been dead for 11 years.
I mean it’s ridiculous.
Anything getting the headlines all right, so I I just open up show not knowing if anyone was joining me with the figa Jaba, a Jaga fight uh tomorrow night against Joe Gordina.
I believe.
Oh I’m looking forward to that.
Yeah I’ve been a big fan of Fes for a while um yeah, I think he’s I think, he’s coming off a loss.
Let’S have a quick look here back at enter the ring as a 15 knockout.
Well, 15 and0, knockout artist, um, Frank Sanchez beat him.
Oh okay, so yeah so, but he stood the distance.
I mean he still went the distance.
Was it correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the Jag by the guy that that one fighter went in and walked out when you saw him, that’s a good one.
That’S a good memory, but I I can’t remember uh, I don’t blame the guy for doing that.
I you look at a guy like that and you think nah.
I I’d rather live he’s.
Uh he’s six foot, six uh yeah he’s 18 and one yeah 13 Knockouts rank number seven wvc.
It doesn’t doesn’t mention anything about anyone walking out on him.
If all the big I’m just finishing article on my Once Upon a Time in the prize, ring right, substack and I’ve gone over about 15 Fighters, going back to 1700s that thought that were outsized and they height.
There was one guy from Bucharest who was 8 feet.
Two inches and died at 26 of tuberculosis, goo, midu and uh.
I think he he had like a three and0 record or two and0 record and fights were fixed, but there’s guys that have been 76 77 and their height just never reaches their ability and the only one you know what value have.
But even then he wasn’t a skilled fighter and, and there was a guy, my friend Tony G, a historian in Britain to me – uh uh.
He just told me a couple days ago: apologize can’t remember the name, but the guy I think was 69 and actually was successful in the ring.
But that’s very rare.
Remember David Price, the British guy, who was yes, 6 foot n and no balance.
Just no balance – and he asked Lennox for advice and Lennox said sure: don’t take your family to training camp, I’m happy when they’re around yeah.
The idea in training camp is not to be happy.
Some of the guys should be comedians, though yeah they it it’s ridiculous.
So you know, Cara fights were fixed and and Jess Willard couldn’t fight, and just all these guys that uh there’s so many of them.
You know 72, 74, there’s one guy from the NBA who was 72 and a half and had three fight.
Six fights three wins.
Three losses all by knockout and but convicted for the third time and still in prison.
So most a lot of these guys remember had two T Jones.
A lot of them came from basketball and thought.
Well, I’m overwhelmingly tall.
So that’ll help me, but not if you don’t know what to do with it.
I believe uh didn’t not that this matters to either one of us but didn’t Jake Paul, wasn’t his first fight against Nate Robinson, the NBA player yeah, so anyway, uh that would be digressing.
If we talked about that um, let’s see no, I thought Tim Tim might be trying to contact us no, but these guys I mean you know you look at a guy in the 40s like ape Simon, who was six six and uh suffered from gigantism and beat Uh Jersey, Joe walot, but got butchered by Joe Lewis, and then he fought another guy who was six buddy, bear Max bir’s brother but buddy bear was 66 and could fight and and just annihilated him.
But it’s like Bob Fitz Simmons said the bigger.
They are the harder they fall correct, absolutely absolutely speaking of big guys, who, oh just for I, I really what I I know about the background.
I don’t want to talk about the background, but I got to give give Don King credit for 92 years of age.
Still putting on fights now these are these aren’t exactly the Blockbuster fights of day’s gone by, but he’s got another one coming up and it’s got a couple of pretty good fighters on the on the card.
Um, you know heavyweights Trevor Bryan, going up against kous Cheney B.
Jack is in the ring against makuba.
You know so he’s got a couple of good uh good names, Adrian Broner he’s putting into the ring again against Chris a shot Fighter for a long time.
No one else would take him well.
I think I think you know I mean I think there might be some element of entertainment value here I mean I think, abely yeah, I think Don King counting on I mean he’s holding them down in uh Miami.
If I’m not mistaken in in Florida, so I think it’s good uh, good entertainment value to put on a at that level a good quality night of boxing um.
You know not not not the elite Fighters, but a good quality Knight.
We rarely see the elite Fighters.
What here’s what’s incredible to me about Don King um and not to get into his background like he said if you look at his cards gram in the in the 1870 and from when my daughter says: that’s when you were a young boy right, my my daughter Said to her teacher, how do you know so much about Lincoln? She said my father knew him, but if you look at his cards in the 1970s, these are Stacked Cards.
So right, you’d have a world title: fight, you’d have seven or eight World title fights, but on the undercard, you’d have Matthew sad, muhamad, Eddie, Gregory, Marvin Johnson, Mike Rossman.
You know, you’d have you’d, have uh Haggler uh Tony sipson veto anero.
These were just all Elite level Fighters fighting on the undercard right and and you you know, you got to see nine or 10 fights great fights, you know, and the prices were ridiculously small and yeah it.
It was a better time for boxing and – and let me let me point out too – I I can’t remember the exact uh price but his pay-per-view, and I can’t even remember what uh this the streamer is.
Who’S who’s pulling this one off, but Don King is offering this this fight this card.
I think it’s 99, which is price yeah, so so that’s a fair price uh for what’s being offered for a night of boxing uh.
If you just truly enjoy the sport and you and and you’d rather pay that than 89.
99 to see, you know an equal number of of husbands or up and comers and one potentially great fight, and because you don’t really know right and as we found out last Week right and it’s funny because you know people always saywell, you know Don King came from the Cleveland mob.
That’S correct, but show me a promoter that doesn’t have mob connections going back 300 years.
Show me one Tex Rickard who promoted Dempsey, got the money to build Bo’s 30 acres in New Jersey from from the mob, because some from another promoter, Mike Jacobs, but who else had to the income back then to give you hundreds of thousands Banks weren’t going to Do it corporations weren’t he had to go to mob? They get a bit deeper on this one.
When you say mob do do you mean an an ital yeah, but an Italian fow who just happened to enjoy boxing and had some money to spend on it, Frank.
Castello lucky luano um um Onie the killer Madden and he Onie was he was.
He was partners with those guys, so he was Untouchable and it wasn’t until konche fought Dempsey for the first million dollar gate, because before that the money wasn’t good enough.
So Tommy Burns.
When he fought Jack Johnson, he asked for 30 grand which would be equivalent to today asking for three or four million, and he laughed because he said No One’s Gon na Pay me 30 grand.
But they asked him why you charging that well Johnson’s the best fighter on Earth.
If I’m gon na make that much of a risk, I should be paid the most and, and he got he got the money he wasn’t expecting it, but the money you know he was paid the money, but the mob.
Even at that time thought you know: Johnson’s getting five grand for 35 Grand it’s going to cost us more to send guys over to intimidate them and then, when they saw the million dooll gate, thought okay, money from Radio money from advertising concessions that that’s worth it Now we’re looking in the millions and and that’s when the mob moved in and all these fighters from then till now that people say well, you know kid: gavlin was a mob fighter.
That’S true.
Liston was a mob fighter, that’s true, but it wasn’t their choice.
You know you know James Tony, his trainer Bill Miller used to train and manage Johnny Saxton until carbo Frankie Carell put a gun in his mouth and said now he belongs to us wow and, and you had no choice, so they decided when you won and but Unfortunately, they also decided when you lost that reminds me of a story, and I it’s someone who we featured on talk and fight.
He just lost his lawsuit against Eye of the Tiger over in Quebec and You’.
You’Ve mentioned these fellas before and I H I wish.
I could remember the name of the fella.
Let me just do a quick little Google search on this one French Canadian fighter.
No, no! No! He um! I have the Tiger when uh it was it’s the first time I’ve heard of of someone.
Oh, oh ctio, Clayton, yeah, good fighter yeah, so I I did I I actually thought he was being represented by I the Tiger, but apparently he had left their stable a few years ago and have been in court uh.
Let me have a quick look here for how long they’ve been in court um.
They filed action against Clayton in 2021, so they’ve been in court for a couple of years um, but anyway, uh custo lost that battle in court uh with the court upholding the.
I have to wonder whether a boxer uh has the appropriate legal advice to you know you know: can they afford a lawyer to begin with in order to sign a management contract? So therefore, does he really know what he’s signing uh and that’s so was a decent legal defense, especially in the entertainment business um.
But I I I was surprised to see that go through because you’ve often spoken as well about uh uh, the mafia, controlled organizations in the boxing arena.
If you will in Montreal so well, when I’m talking about Montreal was going back to the 50s and 60s, I don’t know if I the Tiger has to I know: they’re tough negotiators and a and um, I think, for to some extent they’ve supplanted yvon Michelle.
But you know I, I I’ve never seen I’ve only seen one or two instances from from let’s say: 1927 till now, where boxers sued a promoter and one and even then had trouble, collecting Larry Holmes won and a against Don King and a couple other guys did And and got their money took them 20 years, but in in when the famous Jack Dempsey, Jean tonny second fight the battle of the Long Count.
Uh Jean tonny didn’t have the money to set up a training camp or run the promotion.
His manager, Billy Gibson, also managed the lightweight champ Benny lender, so they went to Max boooo Hoff in Philadelphia and Hoff gave them upwards of a million dollars to do everything pay for everything.
After the fight they stiffed off, they said we’re not going to.
Why should we pay? Because you know the fight had to be moved from New York to to Philly and you got a lot of money out of that, and I mean just the stupidity of saying to a mobster kills people for money.
You know you don’t have entitled you’re not entitled to.
The million you gave me is ridiculous and Hof didn’t do what most Mobsters would do, which would be kill them kill them.
He went to the newspaper and he sued them in court and when they asked him why he said he said privately.
I want the world to know that Jean tunny is not squeaky clean.
He got bed with a mobster and now he’s welshing on his money and tonny had one more fight which he made almost nothing on.
He was said to make a million, but who knows, and then he retired you know the mob.
Let him know you’re not welcome.
We’Re not going to promote any more your fights.
His wife was an ays, so she of American steal.
So she had hundreds of millions of dollars, but he was just essentially told you’re done.
You know.
Even Dempsey said to him: it’s not a wise thing to do.
That to these people, so you know it’s like in the Hustler, with Jackie Gleason, saying to Paul Newman about George Scott, you better pay him and you know dempy.
When Fighters would come to him and say what do I do and he said you got had a Pam and he said why don’t you do something, I’m one guy.
Would you want me to stand up against the five families in New York? They’Ll kill me right.
You’Re Hy, they don’t care right, you know, and people disappeared.
Eddie ma who was a heavyweight in the 60s uh, came out against the mob and spoke about things.
They’ done to him and several years later died mysteriously same as zor.
Foley accidentally fell off his balcony into a swimming pool at a motel.
Wow guys have long memories and they don’t make out of threats.
You know they just don’t they used to meet at Jack.
Dempsey’S restaurant right mob guys and they plan fights what they were gon na do and when the FBI picked up Dempsey, he said I’d rather go to prison than squeal on them.
They would kill me and my daughters and my wife wow.
You know I’d rather be in prison, so you know it’s a terrifying Prospect.
I I’ve.
Never I I I don’t know enough of the background about Eye of the Tiger uh.
I don’t know if they if they are or not, but uh I mean I personally have never had a problem with them when dealing with them.
But but you know I mean they’re organization, that’s done well, boxing is a tough business and they don’t back down.
They put their money where their mouth is.
So you know in Canada, you’re allowed to sue anyone.
You want, but um I’ve seen Fighters do that with Ivon Michelle and other Fighters, do it with ey of the tiger and it itent eventually ruined their careers, because, regardless of how much they’re taking you’re still known in the world stage, they can still get you a Fight and you know 20 or 30 % of something is better than 100 % of nothing right right.
You know so cuso or anyone I like couso can say I Own 100 % of myself – that’s great, but you’ll, never fight professionally, again right right.
So that’s that was interesting news.
I was you know, reporting on this week anyway, that because I’ve never seen a lawsuit, uh, a legitimate lawsuit, uh boxer versus management company – and in this case the management company had grounds and they won.
So I just thought it was interesting right and and and if it was mob, controlled cusio would never have made it to court.
That’S a good point.
He he just would have disappeared and that happened to six or seven boxers in in the 1920s and early 30s Harry greb was one and and battling Seiki was one where they just didn’t do what they were told.
You know you’re supposed to go down against this.
Guy, I’m not going down and the mob’s attitude what I’m not asking you.
You know this is the way it is, and you look at a guy like lamada.
He took a dive against Blackjack Billy Fox still waited three years, get a title shot from the middle hit that still have to pay them another 75 grand in cash.
These guys incredible incredible.
They don’t care.
So when Billy Graham won, the greatest young Crown Welterweight Champion fought kid gavlan for the third time he beat him, but gavlan was a mob fighter.
Before the fight Frankie Garbo said to his manager, um Cohen uh, he said to him: listen, your guy can win the title, but we get 75 % of him from now on and we get 75 % of your take and, and Graham said, no and and Kell Said that’s fine, but you’re, not gon na win.
You could knock him out, but you’ll just be disqualified and Graham beat gavlan but didn’t win, but when he retired he said I retired, with my money and my brains and attack gavlan, who I have nothing against retired broke wow.
You know he said all those guys that got in a bed with them, they’re, homeless, broke, gavlin, had a place to live, and Bo Jack had a place to live in Florida because Angelo dundy and Chris dundy paid for it, and there was actually Chris dundy.
Most people don’t know under the table who, who let you know, who helped get rid of carbo and polaro, not personally, because he had anything personal with them.
He’D worked for them for a long time.
He had no choice but because they were killing boxing, the money was going down and they were getting angry and starting to threaten Spectators and, and – and Chris dundy said, are you stupid? What are you gon na H? You gon na go to A A stranger’s house with a gun and force him to buy boxing tickets.
You you don’t understand, your fights are fixed there’re, so obviously fix fans aren’t showing up.
That’S why TV station networks are dropping, you sponsors are dropping out.
You can’t have a guy score, four knockdowns and lose right and then laugh about it.
So now the fans just don’t want to watch it.
It’S enough and look what PBC did with Showtime.
They put on so many terrible fights where this guy’s an upand cominging fighter and his opponent is 42 hasn’t fought in s years and has a 1331 record.
Sorry, that’s not worth it.
That’S, not a fight! That’S a fix! Speaking of uh PBC um, someone called me today to say it seems to them.
They were telling me that uh Netflix is in the running uh to pick up boxing uh and starting off with pbc’s um fights.
I heard the zone as well, but Netflix hasn’t made a profit in two or three years.
So why not go with him? I mean Al haymon’s, a smooth lawyer who Showtime only lost money with him, as we mentioned last week and lost money.
I think with Fox because overpaying for the fighters right, you know I mean everyone wanted Ali money.
Only Ali got Ali money right because Ali made boxing popular for everyone, not just hard hardcore fans like you, andir can always watch you know so.
Ali had everyone there, whether they were hockey, fans or poker fans or breeding fans whatever, but Mayweather like Ali, had people coming to see him to get beat, but they still paid.
Not every fighter is like that.
You know remember the Haggler fight with Leonard, where everyone in here the frontal I got ta, see that fight.
I got ta see it, but it’s out at Maple Leaf Gardens on on Clos CET, but I gota see it so they open up all these other venues.
So people could see it yeah, yeah, yeah chano used to be quite a boxing Mecca, that’s for sure, yeah and uh.
I I do think it’s coming back.
I do think it’s going to take some time.
I do think it’s going to take uh some local favorites to win some battles.
If you will hey speaking of battles, are you following the uh, the amateur battle between the IBA and World Boxing? I heard about that? Yes, so so IBA, which used to be a IBA Le by Umar Crum and Company from Russia uh right so so they got uh basically displaced by World Boxing.
A group of other countries.
Organizations got together uh to represent anyway, so the IBA uh is now taking World Boxing uh to court uh for naming infringement rights, so it’ll be interesting to see how that turns out.
Um, because I case I do.
I do think that you know they.
They they.
The IBA are claiming that they have the right to those names, World, Boxing Etc, but then why wouldn’t they sue World Boxing counsil World Boxing you? My my cousin Mark was a a well-known um copyright and patent lawyer, and so he spoke with the record companies when Napster came out and he said you can shut Napster down, but there’ll be many more like them.
So you better off just to make a deal with them or someone and get some money rather than no money, which is what Apple did, but you can’t copyright a name in of itself.
You can only copyright, a name according to how you use it.
So if I was going to say I’m going to copyright the words tonal Comedy Festival, I can’t I can say Lou eisen’s tonal, Comedy Festival right then I have to specifically say how many comics on each day and what day to do it.
I can’t just copyright those words so like when I did my Onan comedy show when I had a heart attack, I called it.
The angina monologues and some woman called me from New York or from Florida ended up speaking to my cousin Mar and so well I own the name, and he just said you can’t.
You can’t just think that’s a clever name I’ll own it.
That’S not how the law works, you you can he’s using it specifically for a one man show about his heart attack, how he use humor to help himself cover unless you’re doing the same thing.
You have no case right, I was.
I was taught it’s about whether you’re confusing the public or not right.
Some people do that.
You know in Israel they had mcdavid’s instead of McDonald’s with the same sign and that’s a copyright infringement you’re not allowed to right and and China does that all the time with Apple products and that but right we’ll see what happens.
I mean, as you know, amateur boxing is much more corrupt than professional boxing.
It always has been.
I don’t really follow it that much um you know we do go to the local uh, shows the local gyms and check out the local talent um and speak to the local uh trainers and managers just to see who’s coming up and keep our eye on things.
Um and some of some of these guys in gals, you can tell are really good and they’re really really well trained, and so I do that’s why I keep on saying you know at some certain point in the near future, you’re going to see uh Toronto’s boxing Community rebound and support these athletes and go to the Arenas and pay for them uh to watch them box.
That will happen.
I agree and – and I’ve had young Fighters not now but eight 10 years ago, say to me I’m turning pro.
You have any advice: yeah go to the states right, that’s your best option and I think that I think that’s what happened to Caso Clayton yeah, because there’s 350 million people there there’s 40 million people.
Here you got a larger fan base.
You got better sparring partners and better training, better trainers right, but in Canada, if you’re going to make it as a fighter, you got ta be with I of the tiger or Thon Michelle.
They have worldwide connections right, uh, there’s a company is that, are they? Are they they might be out of Halifax? I think they’re called Three Lions right.
I think they’ve got Ryan rosiki yeah, they might have won, but they’ve got a pretty good one right.
It takes rosiki will be a world champion, yeah, no doubt yeah.
He is good.
He is good and he’s got another fight coming up too and and last week on the undercard of Fury nanu, they had um Shan Keane, Sean, Kean yeah, and I just I just thought, is it? Was it Shan Keane? Is that his name yep Shan Kean? There was, there was a brilliant genius comedian who passed away very young from cancer from Montreal named Sean Kean, and he was sort of like step r and he would say jokes, like you know, my girlfriend died of cancer last week.
Only now can I laugh at it, so I mean just really bizarre stuff.
That’S not a good example of his jokes, but anyways Jean Keem, the fighter uh showed that he was a good above average Canadian heavyweight, but not a world class heavyweight Parker made it look.
Easy and before the fight his trainer uh Andy um Lee were quite like they were laughing at him and the fight starts and Keem looked like he was gon na have a bow movement.
I mean his legs were so far apart.
His balance was off W.
He looked terrifying um, I I was told.
Actually I didn’t realize this.
I was told there were actually two separate Arenas in Saudi Arabia, uh one for the title fight and one for the the uh undercard.
That’S right and both sold out by the way.
Yes and um, I think most of it was papered, but yeah I mean they did sell and – and you know the what I thought was funny gra was the fact that or interesting not funny.
So many of the fights ended early and you just think what are they they’re gon na have a lot of time to cover because he’s guys are going in one or two rounds M mov, looked incredible mind you we fighting a guy who was a light heavy Or Cruiserweight, but right but um, he he looks like a Monster yeah.
So so it was good news.
Um all around.
I thought for the uh for Canadian Boxing when, when I saw Shan kean’s name on that particular card, didn’t look good for him after the fight, but before the fight run up to the fight, it was good news for Canadian Boxing and we’re starting to see uh.
Now this is now the pro Canada panel, but uh, but it is interesting uh.
You know, because a lot of people ask us uh through comments, and you know how’s it going up there in Canada.
You know, do we have one or you know, and whenever we we, we make the joke about Lennox Lewis being a Canadian Fighter um.
You know we are talking about that that day when he held up the Canadian flag high after winning gold at the Olympics right um.
So you know I mean.
Is he British? Yes, I guess technically is, but we we joke with our British friends about him.
Being Canadian, so they ask us about, you know who’s up and coming, and so we do mention fellas, like Ryan rosiki uh.
Don’T don’t specifically mention guys like Shan ke, but certainly guys, like custo Clayton have come up in conversations and there are there are.
There are of really good Canadian Fighters there’s a raft of good female uh Fighters too right, and the thing is that Americans have to understand that Canadian Fighters get no coverage right at all on any.
No, no, no radio, no TV, no newspaper.
So even World title fights, you know you could have the greatest.
You could have a card of world tit.
Eight World title fights in eight divisions: it’ll never get covered in Canada right under the circumstances they just won’t and even though out sells, uh UFC Lennox has Canadian citizenship.
He held up the flag because he learned his boxing here so for people, the Americans.
It kills me when I had this argument 10 years ago, 15 years ago, people weing magazines.
Well, we have him listed as British, but he’s a Canadian Citizen, and I and I would say how about van Smith royan well he’s American.
Nobody was born in in Armenia.
Right, but he moved here right like Lennox, and he has American citizenship.
Lennox has Canadian, but but vanis is, is American right, but you’re just you’re just changing the Home Country.
In other words, if it’s an American fighter, it’s all right.
You can do that.
Well.
Take take a look at the take look at the Russian examples fighting out of Montreal these days.
Yeah you got, you got world champions and where are they from they’re from Russia? No they’re not they’re from Montreal, I’m sure they have their Canadian citizenship.
They all havean citizenship have to if they want to make a living out it that’s right, so I I do think it not funny but ironic that erisa is build as the American dream, but he was born in Cuba right magazine as American right.
So I always say to ring how how why does it only apply to American fighters? You know right, and I said if you go back to the 20s and 30s, all those great American fighters, a lot of them came from Europe originally.
So how can you claim that you know you? Are you saying people only born in that country right? You know it’s ridiculous.
Canada’S put 13 people in the international Boxing Hall of Fame, one of them eileene Eaton, was from Vancouver.
She was a promoter, but in every weight division right, you you, you have Tommy Burns at heavyweight as well as Lennox Lewis, Lou briard at welterweight, middleweight um, the great Jimmy McLaren, the greatest Irish fighter ever won the World Welterweight Title twice, you know, and so there’s A lot of great fighters from here that that never that ended up in the Hall of Fame there and Johnny kulan World bantamweight champion, so these guys never got their due.
I curiosity how many hall of fames are there for boxing there’s quite a few.
Quite a few unit States, but there isn’t one Canadian one: hey Tim, how you doing hey, I’m rushing.
You know babysitting everything I got another.
I got ta tell you about this other um of the things that I’m doing right after this one.
It’S causing a little bit of tightness.
So that’s okay! Coming on, but I’mma I’mma talk to you, I’mma talk to you my hand, wow wow burn my Saudi Arabia.
I burned my hand here and and right here, cooking cooking, so I might make a phone call because I’ve been busy and with the grandkids and with like trying to train, I had to take off because I was in so much pain and um.
I’M just get finish the cooking me some some egg, whites with uh cheese and everything so yeah, and so I got to do another.
I got ta do something right at directly after this and I’m gon na talk to you about that.
Okay, I I I hope I hope you swore quite loudly when you burn yourself it’s for me.
That’S the only thing that works boy, that was it was the worst pain.
Look at that look at that know, yeah, that’s incredible yeah, it was the worst.
I couldn’t do.
Nothing did you did you pour? Did you pour water into a frying pan or something like what? No? No all I did was.
I was frying my daughter, some chicken, and so she called me – and I was talking to her so when I turned this way to get something.
I went this way and slapped the pan and it slapped up on hit my arm and um.
I really didn’t want to go to Saudi Arabia and, and that helped me in the way make it decision.
My mom was a certain way.
My mom was 88, she Timmy don’t go C.
She watch CNA, CNN and all this other stuff and – and I ke felt that kind of like not going but there’s a lot of other stars.
Didn’T go Tommy Hearns didn’t go, there’s a whole bunch of other guys didn’t go.
I could use.
The money, though, was like 15,000 wow.
I could you yeah.
I could have used the money, but I was just really.
I didn’t want my mom to get any sicker or so so what they doing now guys I mean to interrupt the show: okay, what they doing now they trying to get me to train Tyson Fury they they putting out um yeah, oh man, it’s so easy to Beat Yousef all you got ta do all you got to do is he’s moving.
He’S quick hit.
This hit the body break his arm.
Don’T worry about the head, he’s moving, so you don’t hit him here.
You is moving, but this can’t get out the way.
I don’t want to get my secrets away.
I don’t want to get my secrets away.
I got ta tell you when Frasier flat, allei the third time Eddie futch.
When I spoke to him years later, he said to Fraser concede the head.
Forget it go after his body destroy his body.
That’Ll take his legs away.
Then the head will be right there for you wow.
You is a much better mover than Joe Fraser yeah usk’s a much better.
I think he’s a better fighter than Fury and better technical fighter, but I was I was just gon na say to you a couple weeks ago, when I, when I I burned my, I burned my hand, and I started cursing 12l words and my wife said you Can’T curse like that, I said: there’s a rule book for life that says burn yourself.
You can use 12l curse words.
Okay, that’s the law! All over the world.
You burn, say: mother, you know what don’t like it.
Then they can go in another room.
I just usually say [ __ ].
Oh, I broke my baby till once on on the frame of my bed and I cursed for about an hour hopping around on one foot.
You must be as angry as somebody else.
Besides that injury, yeah people call up hello.
F, you yeah, it hurts so in all in all seriousness, you’re going to be you’re gon na be training with uh Fury.
No, no.
This just put words out like a lot of the gypsies.
You know what he’s like Gypsy, too yeah.
I used to hang with the gypsies over there because it made me feel like back home where I grew up.
They like they were like down to earth.
Didn’T you know know the English people were beautiful too, but when I went around Tyson Fury and some of the lot of the gypsies in England I felt like I was at home because the girls were tough, the girls didn’t take no crap um.
Everybody had to had to play the same role.
There’S one guy that say something happened.
He handles everything.
They don’t call the police right.
I kind of like respected that you know it was like a tribe when I went over there and I was like wow.
This is something new, you know it’s not new, but it’s something new in me and I was like wow, you got the king, you got the queen, you got this and and Gypsy and Gypsy organization, so I respected them and the girls were not back up they.
What Fury used to be trained in Toronto by a guy named Chris Johnson, who was a light who tyon Fury was trained by Chris Johnson in Toronto? Chris Johnson right? He fought he lost to Antonio Tarver.
He was a Canadian Olympic medalist and he’s still probably the top trainer in Canada.
Actually he is the top trainer in Canada and yeah great.
Let me say this: let me say this: okay finish, I’m tell real quick, I mean he’s a very good fighter, but and a great trainer – and he and Tyson has had different people.
Now he has Sugar Hill Sugar Hill was giving him good advice.
Tyson just wasn’t listening: he had no no Sugar Hill, never for a day in his life.
He really don’t know what he’s doing.
I hate to dis to say this about him.
I hate to say this about him.
Sugar never fought, and all he says is spiritual things.
He never give direction, throw the left hook here, throw the right hand last week, and I mean he was trained by Emanuel Stewart Emanuel Stewart right gave so much respect to my trainer.
I was confused.
I have so much respect for Emanuel, I love him and when, when they got together, I was standing there.
I was a young guy, sparm partner and I was watching Manel Stewart giving my trainer all this.
All this respect and everything I was like Tommy Hearns – was a explosive offense.
Had no defense Emanuel Stewart, I love him.
I love him to death, but I’m just telling you Tommy Hearns made his name big.
Just like Freddy roach name was made big by Manny Pacquiao right, but Emanuel Stewart who used to work of George chavalo in the 60s used to help him did work with him because he was only 15 16, but he he.
I was at a lunch at the hall of fame with him and Angela dunde and a bunch of other guys, Gil Clancy.
I was with dunde Ali told me Angelo, don’t know how to train.
I just have him there with me.
I swear to God.
I love Angelo he’s from South Philly, where I was born and raised Italian Market wait.
A minute Italian Market hold on Angelo dunde was born 15 minutes from me.
We used to go to the same area.
Everything and Ali said he know Angelo, don’t know how.
I love Angelo, that’s my friend.
That’S not what Muhammad said to me.
He said he owed everything to Angel and you were there for a short time before the Foreman fight you weren’t there in the 1960s.
You didn’t see him when he when he was.
I could tell Angelo, don’t know, skills or nothing, but he know how to direct.
He know how he never he never fought.
His brother did so what he had 40 world champions.
Rarel was in the Hall of Fame.
He never fought and he’s considered one of the greatest of all time.
The fighters made him great.
I hate to talk bad about, but that’s like saying when the fighters win, when the fighters win the trainers and all everybody else win yeah, I don’t care.
If they can’t fight, I Fighters won all the time.
So you know it’s like saying to this is like they say in baseball.
They say about you, remember Bob Gibson of the Cardinals right greatest right-handed picture ever people said well you’re only great, because because your team scores more runs when you play right, because no one can get a hit off him.
That’S not boxing! That’S not boxing right, but that’s it’s the same point being a boxer.
A lot of the great trainers NE not necessarily were Fighters.
Some were some were, but Angelo is considered an all-time great trainer.
You can’t dispute that you may dispute okay, if you was in, if you was in Floyd Mayweather corner and nobody never seen you teach, they would think you the greatest of all times.
No, not necessarily, I know boxing, I know boxing, I’m not trying to fight.
You argue, but I know what I’m talking about, and this is what’s been happening, but you were at an Muhammad’s camp for a short time period, no fight.
I was with Ali.
I was with Ali A couple several times right.
Okay, so he don’t listen.
He didn’t listen to Angelo.
He didn’t listen to him later, but yeah.
But that’s not the point.
Angelo didn’t.
Listen to Angelo Angelo said to me and Muhammad said to me, but more Angelo Angelo said: muhamed Ali each fighter is different.
We can agree on that and that’s a different personality and he said you can’t some Fighters.
You can tell what to do others, you can’t.
He said you couldn’t tell Muhammad Ali anything, you couldn’t say, stop take a drink of water or stop.
Let me tell you off, he said the way to work with Muhammad was to compliment him on what he was doing and then he would do it.
I know a lot of writers, Tim dalberg, who, who, who was there with Angelo he was from Sports, Illustrated he wrote a great book on boxing in Vegas and he said.
If you asked me, I would say they were never friends because they argued it all.
The time right, but it worked and and Muhammad gave Angelo credit and Muhammad’s the only one that counts same as at Angelo’s funeral.
The only fighter that showed up was Muhammad and people were disappointed and I said, but muhamed’s the only one that counts.
So when you talk about Sugar Hill, I thought the advice he gave.
Him was good, but but Fury I didn’t Fury Fury.
He didn’t even say nothing.
He really didn’t say nothing.
That was really um made a point too, for you, because Fury kept on fighting the same way.
He usually fight, but that’s not Hill.
He said, use your jab Circle away from his left hand, use your jab and come over top of the Right double jab right hand and fury wouldn’t do it.
He just kept throwing straight right hands and tried to knock him out with each shot.
Those instructions or an a lesson.
Would you just said: jabble jab is more to it than that.
I know.
I know that.
That’S not the point, I’m just telling you what he said.
I asked I asked buddy mcgurt well, why did he F? Why did he get get rid of him this time? I don’t know if he got rid of Sugar Hill? No one told he know that he could teach Sugar Hill, he could teach Sugar Hill said Tyson, Fury did teach Sugar Hill.
How to fight did Tyson Fury fire Sugar Hill.
This week I haven’t heard that I heard that I heard that he’s not he’s not he’s.
Not gon na be with him, but Tyson Fury could teach Sugar Hill right, but you know what I asked: buddy mcgurt one time about a fighter he had, and I said you know you gave him great instructions and he said, but so what he wasn’t focused.
He wasn’t listening to me.
He said the guy’s only going to pick up so much in between rounds.
That’S his fault, the fighter, don’t have confidence in them.
No, he just said the guy didn’t, listen, I told them what to do and everyone agreed.
It was the right advice, the fighter thought no I’ll knock him out same me and you on the same team.
Remember this I’m just trying to exchange knowledge and stuff and understand, but I’m just so happen that I was had one of the one of the one of not the best but one of the greatest trainers back in the day.
Slim Robinson, and I’m I’m really grateful that he that I walked into his his his his his his room and his gym.
The old P gym right where right, where Rocky made the movie and he train and I’m glad I walked into him.
I walked into the bad guy.
I was getting hit a lot and then I switched to the other guy slim, jim everything changed slim jim everything he trained Mike Rosman to the world, the Jewish bomber.
He won the heavyweight champ.
He won the LI championship against um gz, Melendez, Victor Melendez, galendez, Victor gz, r, on rep on and and slim jim Robinson, who was one of the all-time great trainers, as you know ever um, and he was right a after rosman’s career.
He said his father ruined him and his father did ruin him.
I was there, I was there and his father.
His father didn’t really know that much and his father had a lot of input.
Slim showed him how to throw them.
Lip hooks.
Slim taught him how to do a whole lot of things.
Slim Eddie, Mustafa Muhammad had a throw left hook better and that’s how we went that.
I know because every time they hire slim, they took me as a smart partner.
I SP Eddie Eddie Mustafa several other guys, and I saw I saw a slim teaching him stuff and made he he had Eddie.
He made Eddie the champion that Eddie supposed to be.
I was in the corner with Eddie too go ahead.
Champ go ahead.
He he made Mike Rossman a world champion and Eddie Mustafa, yes and and Deep piano, uh rosman’s father not only ruined him.
He stole all his money yeah.
I heard about that yeah his own father stole his money.
I heard about that.
Carra Hall’s brother stole all his money.
You serious, yeah and and carbal would show up at the hall of fame, Tim and he’d be drunk and rude, and it wasn’t.
Until years later we found out, he was broke.
His own brother, carbajal’s brother, only took Michael’s six or seven million Michael was a flyweight so to earn that much as a flyweight was ridiculous.
Six or seven million not only stole it.
He evicted their mother from the house Michael, had bought for her wow and his brother ended up in prison because his brother just flat out, robbed him, and you would think Mike Rosman would be able to trust his own father right you’d.
Be able to trust your own family, but he couldn’t.
I was right there.
I was in the old P, gym with them training.
I, my my training was old old man Booker I watched Mike Rossman every day.
Slim had him sharp slim had him slipping, throwing left hook and he was whipping he was whipping everybody behind and I was like, but I was with this old guy.
I didn’t know I young or just coming in the gym.
You don’t know who’s a good trainer.
That’S why a lot of boxers need to know before they go on those gyms who’s? Who can get you there? Who cannot and a lot of boxers today are going the gym and pick this guy and that guy, but they need guys, like me, say: look.
I think that guy is better for you go to that guy.
You know you know what I’m saying so when I went in that gym, I poked this old man, man I was getting hit.
I was like what the hell is boxing.
You know and then I’ve seen Mike Rossman a white Jewish kid whipping everybody.
I don’t care.
What nationality you was, he was whipping them and I was like oh okay, I switched over.
I tell you had another story, how I switched over, because somebody sent a message to my trainer old man Booker that Larry Holmes want to meet hiring me because he heard about me as a sparing partner.
He wanted me to be a SP partner and Booker, never told me.
So when I found out I left them.
They said I could have made about three 4,000 going to gopar and I left Booker and that’s when I knew that he wasn’t the right trainer.
For me, or for anybody else, nice old man too one of one of the bad things in boxing this happen everywhere that there was a fighter in in Canada in Halifax Nova, Scotia named art hay the toy tiger.
What’S his name, art wasn’t art hay, okay and art was rated above the world champion in in the featherweight division.
He knocked out.
Ruben oliveres say that again he knocked out Rocka by Ruben, oliveres, okay, so art was raided by ring above the champion.
He could never get a world title fight.
His manager, suie Welsh, was in his late 80s and lot of stuff yeah and his manager died.
So his trainer took over art told me in the last five 10 years was in his 70s now late, 60s early 70s.
He was in a gym in Halifax, just working out to keep in shape and he saw a 21 22 year old kid training, all these kids how to fight and he walked over and he said it’s not my place.
I know it’s your class, but I beg of you.
I beg you not to do this because you’re gon na get these kids hurt.
You don’t know what you’re doing.
I seen a lot of situations like that.
Go ahead and need just said was trained by Burke.
Emory Burke Emory was trained by Charlie Goldman, who trained Marciano and Burke knew what he was doing and son you’re a nice young guy, but don’t tell these kids.
They could be Pros it’s.
This is.
This is just a gym where you’re teaching, young kids, it takes tremendous talent, you have to be special to be a pro and it takes great trainers and you’re just 21.
I’M not saying you won’t be a great trainer, but it’s not possible at your age.
Leave these kids alone don’t get them hurt.
Okay, I like that.
I like that you know, and he said I I’m not trying to take money out of your pocket or interfere, but I was a world ranked fighter.
I don’t want to see other people get hurt, especially kids.
I like that.
I, like that being honest.
Yeah, I mean being honest.
A lot of trainers won’t tell you, they just want to get money right, know, saying always trainers in history.
You know from Slim Jim Robinson, to Emanuel Angel dundy, all of them who turned away a lot of guys.
Who said I’m wait a minute.
Let me say this: how many amate fights or how many professional fights did um am Mania Stewart had he had quite a few amateur fights? No, I didn’t know, I didn’t think he had that many he did.
He was many.
He won trophies and stuff.
I have pictures of him with that.
He was a good amateur fighter, but he was a lighter weight fighter and he was told you’re not going to make that much money.
But well evidently – and I love this guy to death – I hate to talk about him.
Um T Tommy Hearns defense was zero right, you’re right, but you know what Zer I got.
Ta tell you something about that.
This is what I wanted to tell you originally.
So I’m at the hall of fame and I’m smart enough to be quiet to watch Gil.
Clancy and Emanuel and Angelo, and all these guys talk and Angelo, said to Emanuel boy.
If Tommy Hearns had balance, he never would have lost a fight and he had defense and defense right balance helps the defense.
Obviously, and Emanuel went like this.
He said Angelo I’ve known him since he was 12 every day.
I would train him till.
I cried to try to teach him balance and defense every single day and then he started knocking people out and he didn’t care and I I still every day say that to him and and some guys just you know, like you said, Tommy Hearns was power person Aight, but he had no defense and he had no balance, you know so when he got hit on the chin.
He took the full brunt in his chin and that’s why Iran Barkley knocked him out twice.
Well, a good trainers.
Is that teach you both defense and offense? You can’t leave it out him.
It just didn’t work.
No, no! I’M! I’M I’mma tell you, it will work.
If you a a good teacher – and you know defense and offense and countering you would do that you you would not you would you would add that in you wouldn’t leave that out, you wouldn’t need defense, sliping and countering out that’s important.
You know what I’m saying: offense is easy.
Offense is easy, throw and punches defense is more complicated where you got a block, punches and counter so right.
I agree.
I’M not disagree with you.
You never seen Tommy really really countering a whole lot.
He just all offense knock you right there b boom right and if you look at Marvin Haggler his trainers to petran Elli Brothers really only had him and maybe Robbie Sims.
They never produced another good fighter.
They weren’t really good trainers, but Haggler was their One Shining Star.
Okay, but the advice they gave him in between rounds was terrible.
You know, especially against a guy like Ray Leonard.
They, these guys, didn’t know what they were doing, but but they ran a boxing gym and they produced Marvin Hagg.
You know, so you could look at trainers all throughout history.
You know I mean Charlie Goldman trained a lot of great guys.
He trained Terry mcgoverin who who beat George Dixon and Joe Gans, but he also trained Marciano, Who who okay, we got a C.
We got a couple of minutes left.
Let’S talk about uh, um, Tyson, Fury and, and then I got ta go.
Is that okay yeah? Go for it yep! Okay, let’s talk about.
Let’S talk about real, quick, um Ty, Fury to me who I know who I know and we friends with I’m friends with the family.
I don’t think he trained really hard not at all.
I think he believ that he could just play around with a gundu some an anund.
How does he pounce his name? Nanu Nano? Okay, he kept his hands up, but if multiple punches would have come, he didn’t know how to do this and block you just had to do.
That is more to it than that.
Now Tyson Fury, I think, won the fight.
I agree, Wonder fight, but he didn’t win it convincingly and den need to you got ta.
You got ta, actually overdo it to get the title.
When I fought Larry Holmes, I did everything I possibly can and only had like 14 13 fights to win the fight.
You just can’t do this.
You got ta go past that to win the title, so Tyson Fury won that fight.
His opponent did just just enough.
He didn’t do enough to really say: hey, that’s my title.
You got to do more than what he did and that’s what the judges you got.
Ta do.
More than that.
You know you got really got ta put Tyson Fury on his ass better.
That punch was a flash it hit his shoulder.
Then it hit his head and and Tyson went down.
Tyson went down with Steve Cunningham.
He went down with um, okay, okay hold okay, he went down with a couple of the guys we got ta get ready, we gota get ready to go.
Yeah cammy’s been down.
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