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EPISODE: Episode 1
Prepare for a captivating episode of Ring Talk with Lou Eisen as we welcome the distinguished Nigel Collins to the spotlight. A true icon in the world of boxing journalism, Nigel Collins brings a wealth of experience and insight to our conversation. From his role as the former editor of The Ring, KO Magazine, and World Boxing to his current contributions to Ringside Seat and the renowned UK weekly Boxing News, Collins’ journey is a testament to his passion for the sport.
Join us as we dive deep into the archives of boxing history with Nigel Collins. His time spent at the helm of esteemed publications has given him a ringside seat to some of the most iconic moments in boxing. From legendary fighters to historic matches, Nigel Collins has witnessed it all and is ready to share his insider stories.
Nigel Collins’ induction into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 2015 speaks volumes about his contributions to the sport’s legacy. His knowledge, dedication, and love for the sport are evident in his every word.
This episode promises to be a treat for boxing enthusiasts and history buffs alike. As we uncover the untold tales and behind-the-scenes glimpses, we celebrate the rich tapestry of boxing through the eyes of a true insider.
Don’t miss this chance to gain a unique perspective on boxing’s past, present, and future with Nigel Collins on Ring Talk with Lou Eisen. Remember to like, comment, and share this episode to honor the legacy of a boxing journalism legend.
Transcribed
[, Music, ] foreign [, Music, ], and this is ring talk and we welcome you to a very special show.
If Talent OR height this man would be a thousand feet tall um.
His name is Nigel Collins, he’s the preempt in a boxing writer in the world for a long time he’s one of my true heroes he’s been writing about professional boxing for more than 50 years and he’s been writing about a better than any man alive.
Uh he’s had two terms as editor-in-chief of the Ring magazine.
I mean I bought ring because he was writing for it.
Uh other platforms that he’s written for include espn.
com HBO course Showtime ringside seat, where he’s a regular contributor and his articles are still absolutely magnificent.
Boxing news KO magazine boxing Illustrated World Boxing uh his book boxing Babylon was published in 1990 and you can still get that it’s a wonderful book.
He was inducted into International Boxing Hall of Fame unanimously in 215.
Other honors include the Pennsylvania Boxing Hall of Fame, the Atlantic City, Boxing Hall of Fame and the Rocky Marciano award for excellence in boxing coverage.
He’S the bench Nigel Collins is The Benchmark against which all other boxing writers are measured, and then he also has won the prestigious James J Walker Award for long and meritorial service to boxing that James J Walker was the mayor of New York, legalized boxing in New York, that’s an extremely rare, prestigious award.
Nigel was born in England, but luckily for us he now resides in the Philadelphia area.
This is his new book hooking off the jab, with that wonderful photo of Terry Norris and Donald Curry.
Please welcome to the show Mr Nigel Collins, hey I’m back great, to see you yeah.
It says we’ve been trying to do this for a while and now we’re finally gon na do it.
Yes, you got sick and then I got sick and I didn’t believe it was happening, but one of those things inspiring against us.
Yes, the the um hooking off the jab, I loved it and um.
You have a million great stories in there and the one that that really touched.
My heart was the one on Sunny Banks, and you know people get overly dramatic when describe the death of a fighter, but you did it so perfectly.
I I don’t mean that in a sarcastic way I mean you did it in such a touching way.
You just presented the raw truth, which was tough enough in itself.
That was uh.
Actually, that was an assignment that bill.
Detloff gave me that I didn’t want to do.
Oh really um.
He encouraged me and I’m damn glad that he did um it was.
It was more like an investigative reporting job than like a straightforward feature.
Um and as you know, I got very close to the family, who had actually managed Sonny Banks and um the person who could have given me.
Some information didn’t want to be interviewed, but uh yeah.
It was um, he was a sad person, you know, and I think uh, that um fight with Williams was uh.
Cleveland Williams was so stupid.
I mean that it like.
I gave several theories and one of them was that the the managers were just want to cash out.
You know they had invested money in him, but um.
I I think that’s the fight very often before somebody is fatally injured in a fight there’s a heavy beating with uh Benny kid parade.
It was Gene Fulmer right.
It was a lot of people, so I I thought they would.
You know I hated them for that.
Good reason, you know, I don’t really know, gave an alternative that um.
He was short of money.
He wanted to get married and stuff like that, but um and I was very lucky um.
The the gentleman who was actually there that I quoted Jeff Jarrett he’s a friend of mine and um.
Whenever there’s an old fight that I didn’t see, I he sees a little bit older than me and his description of it was, you know, very, very good um and I was lucky to get that and it was also lucky um to get a lot of the Newspaper clippings uh from you know all over so yeah.
It was uh sad but um.
You know some boxing can be sad, but actually a couple of people that I respect liked.
It obviously uh Bill detloff and Russell Peltz, the promoter and friend.
He said it was wonderful, so so uh, you know, we’ve had them yeah and there was one thing that I couldn’t do um when it was actually in ringside seat.
I had a sidebar about leonis.
Martin, the guy he was fighting when he died, but the publisher couldn’t just fit sidebars into the format of the book, but anyway yeah he was uh.
He could punch.
Wasn’T he um? I don’t know he had to quit, but when he um, you know his big win, we knocked out Sonny Liston and then he found out that he had a detached retina.
He may have had it before.
You never know uh, because a lot of these guys say you know I’m going to fight anyway and back then they didn’t have the they didn’t.
Have the laser surgery that we had today and many can recover from torn retinas and stuff like that right? You know it’s interesting.
Well, thanks! Uh there’s I mean unfortunately, there’s been so many incidents like that.
I know Angela Dundee told me that after the former fight, he spoke to Manuel Al Farrell, the manager of of benefit – and he said, he’s done, he’s a shot fighter and he’s got nothing left.
And if you put him in with Griffith or anyone, he’ll get killed and he said El Faro said to him.
If he does I’ll go to Cuba and get someone else so that I I I don’t doubt that those managers um did that and unfortunately it still goes on today, because you obviously bring the Premier Boxing right during the planner you’ve seen tens, if not hundreds of Thousands of fights where you must have been thinking Nigel, what’s the corner, doing this guy’s been taking a beating, yeah wow, why aren’t they acting? Sometimes it’s not necessarily what you’re seeing, but you get a Feeling um and usually that feeling’s right you just get a funny.
Okay, you know this is bad and you know, because there’s a lot of vicious fights back and forth that nobody’s gon na die but um it’s one quote: that’s been used quite a bit for me: um, the first fight between then Matthew, Franklin, uh, okay, Matthew, said Bahamut, of course, and Marvin Johnson at the Spectrum, was uh even even more vicious than their.
What Matt won the title um.
It was the only fight that I’ve covered ringside, where I thought maybe both guys would die right.
That was in Russell peltz’s book.
That was fantastic book yeah.
That was uh.
I gave the best quote.
That’S right! You certainly do as well as the best articles.
I wrote the um the forward or the introduction of the forward, whatever yeah trying to tell some of the stories about Russell that most people don’t know you don’t you’re not going to remember this but um.
You were a tremendously tremendous inspiration, but I called the ring off at 15 20 years ago.
Maybe not that long ago, and I spoke to you because I wanted to do a book on George Dixon.
I didn’t know where to start, and I was so touched that you took like a half hour out of your schedule, to talk to me and encourage me while in the background all I could hear is Nigel, I need to look at this photo now.
You got ta look at the article now, there’s no time now tell them to you later.
No I’m talking to this young man, it’s rude.
I will look at that in a minute, and so I really wanted to say thank you because you were so polite.
While you were being assaulted by all these different voices yeah, I mean I’d like to help people.
You know especially they’re, going to try and do something in boxing and um.
You know it’s uh, also the writers I I gave many writers their voice and – and it wasn’t just because I was altruistic, it was because they were good and um yeah and you know the more they write the better they got.
I I really like I had some sense of that and um.
Of course, bill was one of them.
Don stradley was one of them.
Uh Eric Raskin was one of them a whole whole pilot guys, but there was a lot of dead wood at the ring at that particular Point.
As far as writers go – and I didn’t want that because it would spend an awful lot of time, rewriting uh.
I was good at rewriting, but you just didn’t have the time with such a small staff right, so it wasn’t just to be nice to these guys uh it was it was they could? They could help me too, because their material was pretty clean.
You know uh.
So you know it worked both ways.
I helped them and they helped me.
I didn’t help you, but the Dixon book was written.
Have you read it? Yes, my friend Jason Winters wrote it.
I helped him with it with some of the information, I’m I’m trying to Pivot and take my information and do a book on on George Bunch buyers or the original George Godfrey, of which I now have a lot of information on.
Oh well, that’s good hurry up and hit everybody in the punch.
Yes, that’s I think that’s an important thing.
I have a book I just finished that’ll be coming out in the next couple of weeks, boxing’s greatest controversies, I picked 25 fights and then there’s plenty of those yeah.
That should be interesting.
Well, hopefully I mean when I got it back from the publisher: there were mistakes added in that I hadn’t sent in my original manuscript, so that was kind of frustrating, but you know, as Angela said, yelling or getting angry at someone’s, not gon na progress, your cause.
So just be calm and polite and well, you know sometimes sometimes um, whether it’s a book or a story magazine if the person you’re talking to um is is good at their job.
They’Ll tell you why um I I wrote a book that um it was finally published and but one of the agents that turned it down said um well.
This is really good.
You’Re well written it’s funny in parts and uh, but Publishers um like a story with an arc and it didn’t have an arc it sort of slammed the brakes on.
But I afterwards found somebody that was a very important person in the book that I hadn’t seen in 45 years and I finally found them – and I went to Mexico to uh, to visit this old friend of mine and The Arc was completed because he’s in the Very beginning and the very end and um it uh, you know, so that’s maybe if I’d have had that when I sent it to the um literary agent, he would have helped me, but he did help me by telling me that’s what I needed I needed.
We.
We have a – I don’t know if you know uh Anthony Morrow writes in that my grandfather is Leonard world.
I don’t know who Leonard o is.
Do you know? I guess he was probably a fighter or something I’m not really familiar with it? Oh okay, sorry.
I thought it might be someone that you knew um, so I don’t know much at all.
You know this is this.
Is me that put this in there a lot of people think I’m a historian, I’m not an historian, I’m a guy who knows where to look right, but you you were great.
On the Sunday I mean you’ve been on so many documentaries into somebody listening documentary.
You were wonderful in that, but you displayed in the documentary and in your writing the same quality.
I think the most recent example is Bud Crawford when he was perfectly calm in the pocket against Daryl Spence, and that was magnificent.
He was wonderful he’s like a throwback to the old-time Fighters, but it reminded me of you because you don’t get caught up in all these this.
You know I saw Elvis – and I saw this and I saw that you’re very, very calm.
So I emailed you after the listing thing – and I said Angelo told me that his brother told him it was a hot shot by the mob, and you said yes, that’s one of the theories, but no one knows definitively what actually killed Sonny Liston that we may Never know yeah, I mean a lot of the people involved are they’re dead.
Now too uh, so um Sean Estelle wrote the book that that uh Showtime documentary was based on and he attacked it like a cold case.
He wasn’t, he wasn’t.
He was a writer, but not a boxing writer per se and um.
He gave his hint to who he thought it was, but you know uh there.
I think that you know the thing is Las Vegas was created by gangsters and the gangsters are still there yeah.
They just wear better suits these days and have corporate names and uh they’re, not killing people but um.
You know the way that fights are fixed now are through the officials not by giving anybody, people money so right and and I’ve told some people that, like if you, if you have a fight in uh, Las Vegas, say Floyd Mayweather, who had you know an awful Lot of fans a lot very good in the pay-per-view um and he fights somebody else – it’s not quite as popular and it’s close in Vegas they’re always going to go to the guy.
Who creates the most money right? You know so say: Pacquiao had given um Mayweather a good fight uh but lost a close decision um they they would all they always give it to the guy.
Who creates the most money? Because the gaming industry runs the state right and – and you know in in that regards with those Fighters it um.
I mean Larry Merchant said that, and I’m sure you know this, but he said that the the actual mob left, but they were replaced by the sanctioning bodies and the thing is the fans, I think, there’s a general Uprising all over the planet over finances over politics Everywhere but fans in boxing I mean when they see some guy who’s dominated another fighter and and now on on every broadcast on ESPN showtimes The Zone, whatever broadcast you’re watching there’ll always be.
As you know, Nigel will always be some uh blow-by-blow announcer who says well.
He has scored three knockdowns he’s dominated the fight, but you know it’s boxing.
We don’t know how the judges see it.
Oh yeah, I mean it’s well, you know, there’s a piece in the book: um yeah uh.
I I I stole the the title from the Touch of Evil: a touch of larceny.
That’S that’s what it was called oxen’s opens open secret, where I explain how they do it and uh it’s really heartbreaking for the fighters.
Who should have won that don’t uh.
I I don’t know how you know every now and then you see a a fighter attack a judge but um.
You know that’s not going to do much good, yeah, it’s uh, but the whole thing is that I tell people.
If you can’t write about boxing.
You can’t write about anything because everything’s going on and you know, there’s all sorts of stuff that uh you know behind the scenes and then there’s the fighters and then there’s the fights themselves and uh.
You know their stories.
I have a highly unscientific Theory that most all boxers came to boxing emotionally wounded uh.
They didn’t get emotionally wounded in boxing.
They you know whatever.
It was even if you know, just a poor kid who didn’t have enough food that would be traumatic and or Ali who had his bike stolen, who was genuinely upset, yeah, yeah and so yeah, it’s it’s um.
Sometimes I think I saw sold my soul to the devil to get involved in this, but um hey it’s what I can do, that’s basically it it’s what it’s what I was given.
You know um when we had bill deloff on.
I asked him this question, can ask you and I’m sure you have the same answer, but you know the criminal almonds been involved in boxing for since the 1700s there’s.
Is there really any way to ferret it out? I mean it’s really seems like it’s part and parcel of the game.
Well, you mentioned the alphabet groups and um.
I followed Bert sugar.
As being you know, one of their main adversaries um.
I I created uh.
I bought back the ring championship belt uh.
We came up with a new uh championship, you know who could do it, who couldn’t a very basic set of the rules based on old-time rules and um.
It got a lot of publicity and ESPN.
Um had me up there to Bristol and they were very, very um positive.
They they liked what was happening.
But the thing is, I tell you this little thing: there’s was a manager.
I won’t name him he’s passed on now, friendly guy called me up when we first started this new thing and um.
He was asking me some questions where he seemed very favorable.
You know he liked it and I said well listen.
I just want to tell you something: I said you can’t buy your way up the rankings.
You know we do.
We don’t do that.
You know uh, you know you go to one of their conventions, they give them a lot of money um.
So he never called me back again after I told him that wow, because the managers and the promoters and to a good degree they’re all complicit and um.
I want to scream every time they say on Showtime, it’s the four belt era: that’s what they call it and I’ve I’ve.
Always the guy said: there’s one world that could only win World Champion.
I mean that’s just so simple but um.
So I think the alphabet organization is if we could wave a magic wand and they’d all disappear instead of multiplying um.
That would be a huge step because the people um managers, promoters networks.
Whoever else is uh trying to uh, you know do things their own way.
Would be much more difficult right, there’s a management promoter here or not here.
Excuse me in in New York – and we always debate about um or argue about the friendly way about the ibf.
And he says, because I wrote a chapter about the criminality in my in my book and he said: they’re not criminals, and he mentioned four or five guys and I said, but they’re all in prison.
They were all FBI caught all of them.
Well, the FBI is wrong, but they were convicted in court.
The Court’s wrong: well, not everyone can always be wrong all the time.
It’S just not possible time in prison and a banned from boxing forever, but the main charge he was acquitted on.
I think it was the old tax thing you know, uh like they called Al Capone right.
I can’t remember which one of the uh felonies he’d been charged with, but it was the least of the crime yeah there there there was um a fighter from Canada.
Cruise story Troy Ross yeah, I need Canadian Olympian and he fought in Germany for sour against the sourland fighter one.
I can’t remember what it was and he dropped the guide twice on one knock down the referee helped the boxer up like he lifted him up and, of course, Troy’s trainers screaming you’re not allowed to do that.
That fight should be over and and uh and and of course it goes it, it goes uh to a cards and Troy loses, and then I read in the FBI report that that was one of the fights that the ibf had made sure that their champion, because Troy hadn’t wouldn’t sign with them that their Champion prevailed, and I I sat there in in disbelief, but this has been going on for hundreds and hundreds of years and yeah it is yeah.
It said I don’t think you could ever get rid of all of the uh hanky-panky, but um and and now I don’t think you can uh get rid of the alphabet groups um I mean I fought them for years years and years and when we had the New Championship policy that was the closest we ever got now here I tell you something: um Jim lamb, playing uh Larry Merchant, I’m friendly with him.
You know Larry Merchant used to live in Philly um when he was a sports center of the Daily News there um.
It’S it’s just it’s just the way it is.
You know they were very supportive on uh at first on HBO.
They would mention you know it’s for the WBC and the ring belt and then um.
They decided not.
Obviously the on-air Talent.
The corporate entity decided that he told the broadcasters not to mention the ring Championship anymore.
Now, HBO’s gone now so yeah they ran into the ground.
Yeah I mean it was it was building and when you’ve got you know, Larry Merchant and Jim Lampley Lampley sent me a um, an email that I guess he wasn’t supposed to send because but he’s not there now, and neither is the person who sent him the Email uh telling them that uh not to mention the Ring magazine championship so that that ended it now they mentioned it all the time, but they’re still the managers and promoters are still taking huge chunks of money out of the Fighter’s purse.
To pay these organizations it’s nuts, the fighters are just so anxious to get to a certain point, but when they do they have power and um.
I think one of the fighters who decided that he wouldn’t pay any of the sanctioning fees he’d just fight for our belt – was um, the guy that knocked out um Roy Jones, a second time yeah, um, yeah and uh.
You know even Lennox Lewis, when he uh.
Finally, unified the the title um I went out to uh, it was a photo shoot, an interview.
He was filming a commercial somewhere in New York and there’s a lot of downtime when they’re filming and he said well, you know I wish we could mail all the belts down and make one – and I said well here it is, you know, here’s here’s! The ring belt um that represents a real Champion, not a Titleist, not a belt holder and um like they say it used to be back.
I guess it sort of ended around the 60s and the 70s that uh boxing fans could name every contender in all eight weight classes.
You could do that.
You know yeah um, but greed.
You know, let’s face it practically.
All the problems in this world are caused by greed and uh boxing’s right in there.
Let’S talk about something good about boxing.
Well, what who’s? Yes, but I have one question which is always puzzled me I mean box is huge in England and boxing’s huge in Germany and but the majority of revenues from sanctioning bodies come from the United States.
How come the United States can’t have more power and how it’s run well.
Basically, the main thing is money: okay, okay, they pay more, but the other thing is, if you’re living say in England, I remember Ricky Hatton was so excited to fight in Las Vegas.
The bright lights you know um, they want to do that and it used to be more.
They wanted to fight at Madison Square Garden right and that died down now, because there’s more fights in Brooklyn there are and Manhattan these days, and you know they want that.
Now, practically everybody that uh, I gave a championship belt to knew what it represented but um.
Maybe they just weren’t brave enough to go against the flow was Muhammad Ali, the most special person you ever met in your entire life.
Well, um! I didn’t really need him.
Yeah, did you read the uh yeah yeah right? I thought you’d met him, otherwise, no um.
I I told basically you know all of it uh in those three.
Those three stories were written under deadline um in a matter of just a couple of days and um.
My editor said: I knocked the ball out of the park.
You know, yeah, you did and uh the thing.
The thing that I think made a difference was um after the funeral itself, the day of the funeral itself, um most everybody in the media interviewed other Fighters or people that are involved in boxing.
I interviewed the people who were waiting outside to go in and you know a lot of them.
They had a relationship with them.
You know you know he used to go to school with my brother and things like that, so uh.
What I’ve tried to do in my for a long time now is try and find an angle.
Nobody else is using because there’s a lot of cookie cutter stories out there, especially now the internet.
You know newspapers used to have good writers at one point, so I always try to look at what things are maybe a little bit different.
So you know whether the story is good or not.
Um.
That’S what I try to do right.
I know that uh there’s a misconception in the print media anyways that um certainly in Canada, but also in the states except for England, uh that they just don’t cover boxing.
So I haven’t seen a fight covered in the local or national newspaper.
Only one newspaper in Canada, a conservative paper gives it a bit of coverage, but you know, obviously newspapers are all dying.
So that’s that’s right, part of it right but uh it wasn’t.
You know things were going down as far as coverage was concerned before the internet, but uh at least you know we had two newspapers in Philadelphia.
We have four at once uh and they all covered boxing, but then it got.
Okay.
They’Ve only got enough in the budget to go to Las Vegas three times this year or something like that.
You know and um it’s like um Bernard Fernandez, who was a long time boxer yeah um.
He used to always say the same thing that um.
You know the Eagles and the Phillies um as they were Lions they eat the they ate the good part.
You know and um boxing’s left over for the buzzards.
You know yeah it’s it’s every.
I know in Canada that all the major networks have got rid of all these Sports Programming, so you’ll have the weather girl, give the weather and then she’ll have the Toronto Blue Jays for the Toronto Maple Leaf score and that’s it well.
What happened is that um Sports editors uh in the newspaper towards the you know the last 10 15 years of their existence and naturally on TV.
They don’t know anything about boxing.
So if somebody gets killed, they’re going to run it, somebody gets arrested, they’re going to run it, but you could have had one of the greatest fights of all time on Saturday night.
They won’t mention it.
Why? Because they don’t know now, the thing that they should do is learn uh, you know, but uh they do they haven’t, and all of the boxing writers who did the boxing beats were all laid off uh.
You know, I know Bernie.
He took like one of those Severance packages because he knew he was going to get the ax anyway and a lot of writers like that.
Yeah there’s a guy here: magazines, mostly digital, now yeah yeah yeah.
There was the guy here who retired from a newspaper the Toronto Sun, Steve buffer, who wrote about boxing for 40 years 40 50 years, and when I asked him why he retired he said I got tired of being yelled at like yellow man.
Just proposing a boxing story – and you know the thing is boxing – generates a huge huge amount of money, yeah more than UFC more than MMA, but they just won’t listen to the numbers uh.
You know the one we think we didn’t um the latest fight uh with Crawford and it’s they were surprised that they sold seven hundred thousand pay-per-views because I don’t think Crawford had had even up to 200 000 and his others paid reviews.
And that’s why Bob laram? Let him go, but when you make a big fight and uh people want it and um what was that fight um Anthony Joshua? No, it was the fight that um a lightweight fight.
Let me see Javonte Davis, oh okay, yeah, yeah and Garcia um.
They would have been happy with 500 000 pay-per-views, but they had like a million point two.
That was a huge surprise and um me and Bill detloff often go to a bar to watch a pay-per-view because we don’t want to pay a hundred dollars and um.
We went to one and one in Allentown where he lives and what we called up on the phone.
He said.
Well, it’s already standing room only, but you can come if you want and we went and they only charged us ten dollars to get in right.
But the drinks were expensive, so you know that’s how they made their money, but uh yeah.
I mean that was a fight that was huge.
You know uh.
I have to say, though, what I find extremely frustrating is when you speak to people on sports, radio or television or newspapers – and you say you don’t have to believe me, but numbers don’t lie.
Math, never lies so.
Here’S the gates for boxing for the previous five big fights and here’s the pay-per-view numbers and the live dates, and here’s for UFC or MMA unboxing always does better and they just don’t care.
Well, I think also the MMA fighters don’t earn any much where as much money most of them.
No they what they are they’re sort of like a job right, you’re getting earn 50 Grand on MMA if you’re the top fighter of the card, and that would be a per diem.
A middle-class boxer would be happy with that, but they’re, not the big stars, um.
Well, we we have a Jerome bootsennis here in Philadelphia, great fun, uh great fighter.
I’Ve been covered a lot of his fights.
His last fight was his toughest one and he was gone yeah when he, when he um, was fighting in the clubs around Philadelphia.
You couldn’t find out much about him.
He’D knock the guy out and it was over.
You know, but uh his most recent fight.
He he took some punches um.
Is he ready for Crawford? They left the fight.
A lot of people want to see.
I’M not sure I mean he’s a totally different kind of fighter than uh.
You know, um Crawford doesn’t Crawford said that he just wants Charlo for the way Charlo treated him yeah, but that fight within with the Dennis it was um.
I couldn’t believe how good bud was, and I already thought that he was the best fighter in the world, but some of the things he did were so subtle when he was attacked.
He didn’t clinch.
No, he put his hands up like that and pushed the guy back yeah.
He.
Nobody else does that, no and when I want to hold yeah and when I watched him fight Spence, it reminded me of reading about Jack Johnson or Sam Langford.
It really did the way that they could like Johnson, could stand in front of you and just turn his shoulder ever so slightly or turn his hips and avoid the punch, and he was so calm in the pocket.
It was a like.
You were saying it’s a throwback: it’s you’re watching a brilliant guy from another era: yeah um.
Now you know the fight when um the monster from Japan for the ice scooter fortins in Philadelphia with that yeah great knockout um, it was everybody would talk about who’s.
The number one pound for a pound, the pound foot pounds horseshit anyway, but right it’s it’s a big deal with the fighters and uh.
I I I I I I it’s spectacular as The Knockout was against the guy.
I knew um who was undefeated and a good Fighter um that seemed to be, you know, put them in number one, but the fact that uh Spence was a much better.
You know fighter against good guys and uh yeah, the the subtlety you know he is so relaxed in the ring and that’s very, very, very, very hard.
Somebody’S trying to knock your head off and most Fighters are not relaxed like a guy like Roberto Duran was very relaxed, George Foreman in his second Life as a boxer, it was very relaxed before he was just a wild guy, throwing Haymakers right, yeah, but Bud Crawford Did you see any of the videos from the parade he had in Omaha? That was fantastic, it was Unreal, I mean it looks the streets were packed here.
He is with his fishing fishing pole and his and his sold off jeans.
Uh I mean there.
Would they? I I didn’t even know until Crawford came along that there weren’t any good fighters in Nebraska but that they turned out.
I I mean I couldn’t count the crowd, but sometimes when you got the long shot you could see there all the way down, maybe five or six deep on the sidewalk and he’s he’s a lot happier.
Now, usually, you know he’s not the happiest guy in the world, but uh he got the big win.
He got the big one money and I think I can’t speak for him, but I think the people that turned out to support him was almost important as the money he finally knew more important than the money.
The the response of the fans and and Omaha um he’s also good friends with Warren Buffett.
I mean he keeps great company yeah.
He does.
I remember that yeah, it’s um he’s strange Fighter.
Um there is a.
There is a story about him in the book.
Um and uh he’s a lot of people.
Think he’s not a good interview.
Interviewer that you know some people are uh.
I I’ve had problems with um Pernell Whitaker, for instance, um uh.
At one time when I was working on the KO magazine, they always had a big interview.
Okay, you interview and um.
Had my questions already written, you know and it was.
It was a phoner.
I had my tape recorder and uh.
It was either yes, no or I don’t know, and that went on for about half an hour and usually an interview is an hour or more.
So I said thank you very much and hung up, and I gave the tape recorder to the publisher and he says uh we’re not going to print that.
So you know, most Fighters are just absolutely delighted to get publicity um.
He was.
He was a little bit difficult um.
He was elevated, a pound per pound at one time and he had a jacket made.
You might remember the cover.
It was like.
Oh yeah, I said pound for pound on it yeah and he was like looking over his shoulder.
He wouldn’t he wouldn’t pose for any of anything else, because yeah when you want he was a lot of the standard shots with your clothes off and boxing poses that’s the bread and butter um.
That was great for a cover, but he he wouldn’t do anything else.
Floyd Mayweather can was very difficult at times.
Um Floyd was is very interesting person in that um he can be real [, __ ] and a half an hour later.
He’Ll come up to you and apologize.
You know he’s.
There is some sort of dual personality there.
You know and he apologized to Larry Merchant.
I I met.
I’M apologies.
I met Floyd once for three seconds of defensive deputy, and so he only looked at me because I’m with Angela Dundee – and he just said hey, I said hi it’s a pleasure to, but by the time I got to the word two before I said meet you He’S already gone, I mean he, you know yeah one thing that it was personally um when he was fighting De La Hoya.
They did a tour of the country and um.
They came to Philadelphia and um.
Floyd had just won the ring belt as the welterweight champion.
So I have permission to take it to him during the the press conference and um.
When my time came, I came up, I said a few words not much at all gave him the belt.
You know held his hand up, he didn’t even say thank you and a little bit later when he was talking to the audience he held it up like it was a dead fish and what he said they gave me this.
So I said well what a prick when it was all over and there was like a long line of people that he went down like you know, a receiving line and when he got to me, oh, you guys are doing a great job with the Ring magazine.
I want you to come out to training camp, I’m thinking this is the same guy, so I I can’t really explain him but um a lot of the times he does.
I guess he feels bad or he wouldn’t apologize right, but those are two of the the most difficult boxers that I’ve ever dealt with.
I know at the hall of fame because I’d go with Angela Angelo and I were in Cinderella Man together, but I first met him when he brought Jose Napoli’s to fight plaid gray in Toronto, and I waited I waited after the fight to meet him.
And I got to meet him and uh.
He asked me if I boxed him.
I said yes and he said, are you good? I said I’m pretty good.
He said, then, you should quit because you have to be special and the size of your head.
The other guy doesn’t have to leave his corner to actually land a punch on you, so you’re at a disadvantage, and then he said to me: do you want to meet the big guy and Muhammad came out because he was one of the promoters and I was 13.
14, but I just cried the whole time even at that age, because I couldn’t believe it’s I mean this is my hero.
I you know, people like you and me: boxers are our heroes when we’re kids and that doesn’t really go away.
I wrote a long piece about Dick Tiger.
Who was, I think the heading was you know a real hero or whatever it was.
You know that he was a hero, um, absolutely and yeah.
I I used to watch him on the TV and um.
He was something really special.
He stood by his people at The Darkest Hour and the part how he had to sneak out through a jungle Trail to get to Vegas, to fight Roger Rouse, um and uh.
You know he was um out almost another part that I I don’t know if I had it in the story when he went to the Nigerian Embassy to see if he could go home without getting arrested or something um.
He took Larry Merchant with him, wow Larry Merchant didn’t say anything.
He was just a witness and tiger trusted him and knew that if Larry Merchant was there, these guys couldn’t say one thing and then do another.
If he’d had taken a lawyer, probably wouldn’t have worked, but Larry Merchant is uh, you know, he’s got to he’s, got a vehicle to express himself in and I’m sure, but tiger was a real gentleman.
You know and uh he did sent all his money home and he lived like in a dump, um and uh.
You know they couldn’t understand why this guy, that you know, was a top performer fighting at the Garden all the time – and I think I mentioned they – doubled the normal fee for him, because he attracted so many fans um carrying his equipment around in a paper bag.
Sometimes you know and uh doing his laundry to keep busy between sparring and things.
He was a different property.
Never leave you pardon me.
The poverty never leaves you when you grow up with that.
Exactly so systems, uh Farmers, that’s what they were yeah.
I know his grandfather was a great warrior and his mother felt that you know that he was the re Reincarnation of his grandfather, but um yeah uh, some of the things that he saw.
You know the bombing landing on homes and entire Villages wiped out.
I mean it was a horrendous mismatch from the beginning.
You know, but um there was genocide in the northern part of Nigeria um and it was.
It was a terrible thing and he actually I forget what the award is, but every year the queen, they give certain people a little medal.
I forget what it is: it’s something of the British Empire, a member of the British or order right.
So Dick Tiger had one of those and he mailed it back to the queen, and this is this – is another little interesting thing.
He got the idea to do it because John Lennon had just done it right and um.
You know that, of course, it didn’t affect the queen and all the arm cells to the Nigerian government, but he just wanted to let them know you know.
I don’t want this piece of [ __ ], because I know that makes sense when he got stopped by Bob Foster.
My father cried and I said it was tough to watch.
It was yeah and my father, I said, but it’s legitimate knockout.
He didn’t cheat and he said yeah, but it’s dick dagger.
This is a man.
This is someone who deserves better than this.
Well, you know it’s um.
It’S chilling just to watch it.
For me, you know, watch the replay or some of the things, but you know that that just comes with the territory and and he had that great comeback – fight with the polar and bite of the year in the ring.
So um, of course, of course, when he came here, he was 30.
and there it was ancient for a boxer.
In those days I mean he had a lot of fights in England.
He had quite a few in Nigeria, but he had a lot of fights in England and they lost a lot of his early fights yeah yeah I mean he had like.
I think he had four fights with Joey, giardello and um.
He lost the title to him and then won the title back from giardello, but prior to that, when they were contenders uh, I think they were.
They were two and two but uh giardello, of course, was a Philadelphia fighter right, a real character, a real character.
He uh, he said I don’t have to train I’m a natural.
I just fight, and a lot of that was true and he uh.
I went to a gym.
Passyunk Avenue was a famous place in South Philly, where there’s a a statue, not a statue, a sculptor of Joey giardello, now yeah right around where the gym used to be, and so I went down the gym and there was a something on the ground floor.
I don’t know what it was.
Then there was at the gym and then the third floor was where everybody gambled.
So I went in there looking for him, the gym part.
Oh, no he’s he’s playing up he’s playing cards upstairs so um a lot of great Fighters because they have so much talent.
They don’t train as hard as they should.
I guess it’s just a real temptation, like a guy, that I managed Jerome artist, beat Sugar Ray Leonard in the National Golden Gloves, but wouldn’t train you know.
So that’s! This is a it’s a weird thing.
It uh like Gypsy Joe Harris who was a phenomena, a real Phenom right, there’s a little bit of film of his last fight, which was with with Emil Griffith that really didn’t show anything um.
He was uh inspiration, uh people would come and fill the joint when he was still in the preliminaries just to see him and uh he he was um.
He looked like a little gnome.
I don’t mean that insulting me, but he did and um.
I like a lot of Fighters that are very good defensively and he was very good defensively.
He always made the other guy pay and he would do all kinds of things he would do.
He would do the Jersey, Joe Walker, walk away.
He would uh go in a corner and put his hands over the two ropes and duck every punch.
The guy was throwing at him amazing, amazing, Fighter um.
You know he was 21 fights or something he was through um.
You know he encouraged Cokes at the Garden and then Curtis coax became the welterweight champion and, of course everybody wanted to see Gypsy Joe uh fight him again and win the title um.
He never went.
He didn’t even go to Texas, I guess it was Houston or Dallas.
The fight was because he was he couldn’t you know he couldn’t make white, so he didn’t go and uh in a way.
It’S a good thing.
He didn’t the people who were promoting the fight were Crooks and they sold all the tickets twice.
The fight didn’t come off.
You know because Gypsy Joe stayed in Philly, but um they knew the the commission they knew all along.
He only had one eye.
I have to tell you Nigel uh, I I did stand up for about 30 35 years and the similarities between stand-up comedy and boxing in terms of criminality or frightening, that you get called up to go.
Do a show and they’d say: oh there’s no money.
So you get a free dinner and then you you get to the show and you speak to the owner.
Oh we we paid the club 2500 for you.
So this would happen all the time or you’d go on the road somewhere and you’re supposed to get 2500 for the week, and you end up coming home with 700 and then yeah.
They took 1800 and I just you’d say to them.
Where do you get that? Where do you get the cojones to dig that kind of commission and boxing yeah? I haven’t been ripped off too much, but the one thing for a long time, different people would, you know, want to do a documentary or want you to do a lengthy interview pick once the bunch of guys came over from Japan.
Just to pick my brain – and I realized that I was giving myself away for nothing and uh now I I charge not your knowledge is your stock and trade.
I mean my my wife always says to me: you have these thousands of pages of archives on boxes.
Going back up under years, and when someone calls you from the paper to ask you about a fight from 1856, you shouldn’t just say: yeah I’ll give it to you, don’t give it to them.
You know it’s different.
If you’re they’re interviewing you for a story or something but um when when they just want you to do a lot of people want, you know just the old line when my office was in Manhattan.
The old line was when I was naive, um.
Well, you know if you come on this, show you’re going to get a lot of publicity and that’ll raise you up.
It didn’t give me a dime, you know uh.
So in my old age I got tough.
I started charging them and stand up.
It would always be.
You got a lot of exposure and a friend of mine who’s, a great comic and still doing it said I live in Canada.
You know I can go outside in winter with my underwear on and die from exposure in this country.
Let me tell you something for running: we run out of time here I have seen I used to own property in Nova, Scotia eastern coast right and uh.
We went to Halifax to see fights a few times.
Uh Clyde gray was fighting but uh.
He wasn’t there.
Um Dave Downey was the big star right and of course it was a very racially charged place at the time just coming in this is in the 70s, but Dave Downey was very good, very good, but he was happy with just being the middle away champion of Canada and he was a very sweet man and we even went up to um a mining town um in Nova Scotia and saw a guy called uh.
I think it was Barry sponagle, never heard of him right.
Oh yeah yeah we so so we we took a a long a long weekend and went up and saw him fighting.
It was on you, it was funny it was in a um minor league uh hockey rank they filled the place.
What else can you do in skeleton? That’S what stellerton is the home of art, hayfee, yeah, right and um uh.
When we pulled into the motel we’d rented, there were two guys fighting in the parking lot.
We thought this is going to be a good show, but the funny thing was that um, the crowd thought the fighters were great.
They thought their Fighters were really really good and or hispanical was just an average fighter and he was way better than anybody else.
On the card and um, I was involved in managing Fighters a little bit at that time, and I I told the promoter that you know I can send some good Fighters up here.
He said we don’t want good Fighters up here, you know but yeah.
So I I have actually, I think it maybe about three or four uh.
You should go to Prince Edward Island.
If you get a chance and go to to Charlottetown oh yeah, which is where it’s the birthplace of Canada, you could walk Charlottetown in an hour or two.
That’S how small it is Nigel, but the nicest people the cheapest Seafood on Earth and like in Nova Scotia.
Just very very friendly um.
The reason there is that racial tension.
It goes all the way back to George Dixon when there was a place called africville in the city and uh got rid of it and um so from Nova Scotia.
You have, as obviously you know, uh George Dixon, Sam Langford, um, mysterious Billy Smith.
They all got out of town right and and uh all through Boston and art, haffey, of course, who beat Reuben, Oliveira’s and nicest guy, and he was a good fighter.
But uh.
Who was it that knocked him out finished his career? Pretty much? Well, you know what happened? People don’t know the story behind that Danny Little Red Lopez, yeah, that’s who it was yeah and what happened was Art fought his whole career with Thompson’s disease, which is a neurological disease which would make his body freeze up, so he wouldn’t be able to move, and He came back because he was in San Diego fighting for Don jargon, so he came back and he would walk.
He couldn’t move he’d be in the street and somebody’d say just get on the sidewalk, but he couldn’t physically move anyway.
I had that throughout his fighting career read his career, so so he went to see a neurosurgeon and said you shouldn’t be in the ring with this.
This could happen to you anytime and there’s nothing we can do and he he still fought – and I was very – I was very upset with Richard Steele because he fought a rematch of Oliveira’s and one judge had an eight seven.
I think Oliveira together had it eight seven uh for art and then Richard still had it 14-1 for for Oliveira.
So I said Richard Steele, okay, this is something um.
A lot of people asked me: how do you beat Floyd Mayweather and I said well.
The first thing you’ve got to do is find a referee who won’t let him clinch 20 times around.
It was jab right hand clinch and who was his referee still yeah.
So can I prove that he was doing it uh? I can’t um, but it’s it’s too much to be a coincidence.
Let’S put it that way.
I agree I I said something to Hall one year.
He said well.
That was a bad night.
I said 14-1’s, not a bad night.
I said you either: did it deliberately or you were paid off, but there’s no other option now freeze up the second fight, just the fight right fights, they were excited me too.
I I have a DVD of his that I can send you and uh his nephew did and he he had to happen during uh, the Arguello fight and he had it happen during Lopez and he was very upset because he thought he could beat Lopez.
But after that I mean he made very little money and and and I’m sure you’ve seen his he’s in Halifax, and so he he had a heart attack last year, but he did yeah he’s doing all right.
But you know in his areas.
You know he made nothing as a featherweight, so he had to fight.
He was doctor said you cannot fight Lopez and he said I’m getting 25 000.
I can’t turn it down and arguella was 15 grand, so he just he was pretty good in those days.
Really.
Oh God, he bought a small apartment, complex three-story, maybe 15 units and he’s lived off that since the middle 70s he was smart, yeah and you know Bernard Hopkins uh has a lot of rental property.
I mean it’d, be an exaggeration to say: he’s got the first time he ever owned.
Um right, he was very disciplined.
I I know Bernard Hopkins very well and um.
I think he was the the greatest medal weight since uh Hagar.
Oh, I agree.
Angelo Dundee said he was the best trained fighter he ever saw in his entire life.
Now he was a lot.
He was very similar to Bud Crawford, but they learned everything.
You know that’s why Roy Jones kept getting knocked out when he slowed down a bit.
He never learned that stuff.
He just had this wonderful reflexes and speed, but he didn’t learn the basics of boxing and uh Bernard and Bud are the two that I I can associate together to guys that actually they could do everything and Bernard would openly say the last.
Oh, the last quarter of his his career.
He had the same uh plan every fight and that was take what the other guy does best away.
You know: that’s that’s the only way he could win.
Yeah, that’s brains, I mean that’s his most potent weapon.
He when he was in Toronto, promoting his fight to Jean Pascal and uh.
I think one of the fights was a draw.
I think the first fight yeah the first one yeah and when I asked like in the media room in Montreal, I said to Bernard.
How can you stand there and be calm when you won the fight and they ripped you off and, of course, being a Canadian with all these French Canadians and other Canadians? I I thought they were going to tear me apart, but that’s what I thought and I asked him.
I said you fought Jermaine Taylor twice, you beat him twice and you got ripped off.
How do you? How do you come back from that mentally and he said you can’t pin your whole life on one thing like that and wreck the rest of your life.
You have to accept it for what it is put it in its place and keep going.
I mean he’s he’s a I like him.
You know, we’ve been semi-friends for a long time, but he’s not always nice um.
He didn’t get married until he won the Miller weight title.
The discipline he had after getting out of prison was Unreal.
I don’t know if you know he got a job.
The only job he get was washing dishes in a hotel in Philadelphia, he’d been there, for, I think, a year or a little bit more and um.
They found out that he didn’t put on his application form that he had a felony and they fired him, even though he was a good employee and he didn’t know what to do and then sort of Lady Luck stepped in uh Bowie Fisher.
Who was a trainer? Actually he made his living, he had a a shop that repaired Transmissions and he said to Bernardi come work with me.
He said I don’t know anything about Transmissions, he says I’ll teach you and um Bowie was I liked Bowie.
He was.
He was a really nice friendly guy and we always used to talk um but of course Bernard screwed.
Him I mean you know uh.
He was as ruthless in some ways outside the ring as he was inside, but I have tremendous respect for a man he had like his parole was like double figures.
I don’t know if it was 10, 12 or or what it was.
It wasn’t single figures.
He had to, he couldn’t you know, sneeze uh for all those years well, over a decade and um.
You know he just this did never did nothing after that, except fight um and uh.
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