AIR DATE:
EPISODE: Episode 1
Transcribed
Oh yeah, hello, boxing fans around the world.
Thank you for joining us one more night.
On the Friday night panel tonight we have a special guest joining us, Lou Eisen boxing historian and the fellow who gives us those controversial fight.
Recaps every Sunday done a fantastic job, but he’s got a new book coming out, he’s going to talk about and his upcoming interview with Russell Peltz, but before we do all that over to you Mike, let’s get the bills paid guys right.
That’S that’s what we’ve been doing here? Well guys, today’s episode is being brought to you by the BET Stamp app, which is helping thousands of people win at sports betting for free the same way, Travelers use Google flights or Expedia to find the best prices betters.
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So now that we got that out of the way and the bills are all paid.
Let’S talk about them all right, hey Lou! Why don’t you start us off with a bit of a recap for those viewers who may not know you um what you’ve been up to for us on talk and fight every Sunday? First of all, I I color coordinated.
My shirt tonight with with my school because we’re those kinds of guys, yes and and speaking of that stamp.
I didn’t know this too recently, but friends of mine made a lot of money, betting on my first marriage.
They took the under in the over under so that uh.
What were the odds on that one 15-1 against, but you could take the over under between uh 20 years or more so most of my friends and it lasted 17 years, so they they wiped up.
They cleaned up sounds like pretty good.
I got wiped out, but they were, which is why you’re in that jumpsuit? Yes, that’s right! That’S why I went to milhaven and so on.
So, on Saturday I don’t remember the name of my own show, but it’s ringtone and we we thank you.
We look at fights from the past controversial fights and find out what really happened and what I’ve been doing.
Recently, I’ve been speaking to a lot of authors, so a couple weeks ago I had William detloff on and he had his new book out on the great Matthew, sod, Muhammad and uh.
Coming up.
We got Christopher leforce in a couple of weeks and I think next week and he’ll be talking about his new book on Tommy Ryan, the former welterweight middleweight champ and Joe kowinski, and then I got Randy Roberts who’s been on every Ken Burns, PBS special.
He was in the one about ali.
He was the one about Joe Lewis and the Civil War and he’s written about Ali and and Joe Lewis and and boxing extensively brilliant man, Pulitzer Prize winner and uh.
This and Nigel Collins, publishing magazine and now Riverside seat.
He’Ll be talking about his book in July, hooking off the jab and this Sunday.
We we have this gentleman Russell Peltz, and this is his book and thirty dollars in a cut I and Russell’s from Philadelphia, which is why I was hoping Tim would be here tonight because Russell you know worked with everyone um Mike Rossman, Matthew, sod, Muhammad Jackie Lopez, Been away champ, Joe and Jeff Chandler Bam Bam, Hines to beat Matthew Hilton and uh.
Eddie Mustafa Muhammad worked with a lot of light heavyweight Champs uh.
You know he worked a very much Roberto, Duran and he’s in the Boxing Hall of Fame.
Just a great rack on turn a great book and he doesn’t shy away in the book.
I’M talking about the mob involvement uh, especially in Philadelphia – and you know it’s nothing.
You could do about it, it’s just it was there and he got along with them, because it was expedient.
So out of curiosity, just a quick little question here, I think I think it was back in 1976 when I saw the first Rocky movie 1975, but I’m just kind of curious uh was was Russell like part of the scene back then or was or was he Still a kid he was in the scene back then on the on the back cover picture of him as a young man putting up posters when he got into boxing wow, because what he did, he was working for the Philadelphia bulletin, a newspaper and he wanted to Get to boxing beat and they said no, this guy who’s in his late or early late 70s.
He wants to stay there and he said, but I’m a young guy and I can travel no, and so he had enough of that and he just started to go to fights and and write about them.
And then what happened? Was he just? You know he got sucked into it because he loved it and then he started to promote his own fights at the Blue Horizon and then at the Philadelphia Spectrum.
So he he worked with a lot of um.
I mean over 50, I guess world champions and he had a fighter that was ranked number one in the world, Tyrone Everett and it’s a story in the book.
It’S kind of sad.
He was uh, um a lightweight and he was going to get a title shot.
This is, I guess, mid to late 70s and he called to tell him hey you’re, getting a title shot in his wife answered and said.
I don’t think so.
I just shot him in the head holy [, __ ], and what do you mean he shot him in the head? I think he was unfaithful, so that was it he was done and then there were different Fighters.
He had that one guy was um uh.
Coming back from Vietnam and uh had PTSD, so he would help the guy the guy to be nice and other times the guy’d be nuts so, but he started to put fights on and he would deal with different people.
You know Jeff Chandler had um uh a mob manager who disappeared one day and Russell was good friends with him, just no one ever they found his empty Cadillac never found him, and so he brought in uh Becky O’Neill, who who uh his real name.
I think was barenbaum and she uh was four foot eight and she acted as the manager because her husband had a criminal record for killing someone.
Well, he couldn’t be the front manager and ended up helping him get a get to a uh World title.
He was going to talk about how he’s able to succeed in that particular World, exactly thick with um.
So how so are you saying he competed with no, he worked or against the mafia.
He had to deal with them.
Uh his dealings were above board, but by the same token, you know they’re unavoidable right.
You know right, so you you have to deal with them.
You have to pay them their percentage, and you know he was mentioning.
I think in the other, Nigel Collins is coming on soon one of my favorite people, but he was saying how, when he started to manage Fighters before he became a writer that you know, one of the other managers was a mob guy and you know uh.
They took their, they split their 10 20 and the other 70 80 percent, the trainer and the fighter did what they wanted to do, and he said the great thing about being in League with the mob guy is you’re guaranteed to get your paid.
No one screws with you, you know the trainer or the fighter can’t say I’m not giving it to you and Nigel once said that uh the fighter went up and picked everyone’s pay like the the managers, pay and trainers, pay, wouldn’t give it back, and this mob Guy just said, I think, you’re gon na give it back.
You know, and he just handed the money signed a check over immediately, so are.
Are you going to discuss with Russell whether the mobs is still active today? Uh, probably I I mean how he deals with it.
It definitely is still active today right in many forms, um.
You know in in my book, which I just sent to the publisher today, uh the thing about my uh I mentioned, and I was warned by a lot of people, Angela Dundee in particular, said.
If you want to talk about the mob unboxing, you should really stop in the early 60s, because all those people up to that point are gone.
So several Generations removed – and you say this was 212.
You said they’re still there.
I just wouldn’t mention it right because they don’t appreciate it so the way it works now Bob arum was saying.
Is that what happens? Is you sign a fight? You know he signs a fighter to a title, fight or a big fight and you get to fight his fee and you get the manager’s fee and there’s an advisor named named.
You know Vinnie yeah.
This is 200 Grand, and if you don’t pay him, you don’t get the fighter right and that’s just part of doing business right and a lot of these sanctioning bodies, uh you know, are comprised of convicted felons, but mutual friend of ours has been good to me.
Was on on the internet the other night saying how much he loves, design, shooting bodies – and I remember when Angelo said to me: you gained nothing but arguing with someone.
You know who’s connected.
You know if if they have that kind of power behind them, would you gain by making your point he said I knew that Liston had his gloves, uh tampered with the first time he fought Ali.
I knew they put Tiger Bomb on Tiger Bomb on them, but my brother Chris said why mention it? You want them to come and kill you and your family.
Just say you know sweat or whatever you don’t gain anything by bad mouthing these people and they’ll never get you know.
As William detloff said, you know it’s been in the sport for 300 years, you’ll never get rid of it.
The only difference with the mafia, as we know it in North America, is they starting from Dempsey carpanche in 23 21.
.
They made it um an organized North American, wide uh organization, whereas before you had gambling syndicates in local cities would go and threaten fighters to lose.
Then the mob, just it wasn’t worth it to them all, because the pay was so little.
You know to them.
Tommy Burns getting 30 grand to fight Jack Johnson, it’s going to cost them more to set guys up to Rob them.
But when you have carpanchay it’s making and MC making millions and then you have the concessions and and then the film rights then you’re getting two three four five million.
Then it’s worth it for the mob.
So is that why there’s such a split or a fragmentation in the industry today, I think that you know what not until you just said that now, but that’s a good reason, because that that makes a lot of sense, because I I don’t like all the different Sanctioning bodies, I liked it better when everyone liked everything better when they grew up because they were younger and healthier, but but you had eight Champions: eight divisions.
Everyone knew who the world champion was right.
Well, the only benefit all these organizations is that more Fighters make more money, which is also more criminals involved, making more money.
You know, I mean WBC always says: well, you know we’re collecting money and we’re giving money to all these boxers in need.
But every time I ask Jose Solon or san yorizio or anyone there can you name me one boxer who fought for you, your organization, that you’re giving money to it’s, not your business.
Well, I I would think you’d want to be proud and promote that it’s just not your business yeah good point.
You know so, and I remember someone getting angry at me for talking about the ibf and they said they’re the most upfront, honest organization.
I said: there’s like 25 of their guys are in prison doing time, including the former president Bob Lee wow, you know and and boxing’s open the question people always ask why boxing and and because there’s no centralized body right, you know so it’s easier to take over.
So it’s it’s, it’s frustrating like it’s it that criminal element’s always been.
There always been there and uh.
You know we have a lot of interesting situations today, uh with respect to, shall we call them free agents who are commanding a lot of, and and several of those fights are upcoming you know, so I have to wonder how much the as you describe them.
The criminal element have to do with these uh bodies and management companies and now uh the various uh licensing fees with respect to broadcast rights and live streaming rights so who, who who’s really controlling all this? Well, what money going back and forth? Well, that’s a great point because sanctioning bodies, I really places to launder money right, that’s basically what they’re doing, because you know in in my book, for instance, I have a chapter on the Ken Buchanan fight with Roberto Duran in 72.
.
Duran hit him low after the bell in the 13th round deliberately fractured his testicle and the referee awarded the fight to Duran and uh.
When I spoke Angel Dundee, he said I don’t think it was a mob fight.
I just think the referee was a [ __ ] and he referred my Fighters fight.
I didn’t want him, he was stupid, but but what can you do? But? But when you know, when you look at that, uh um, Rutan and Hell of wbawbc titles yeah, because Duran was the guy who makes the most money with.
But the WDC kept saying you can fight Duran, but you’re gon na have to pay us this fighter of ours, who’s ranked 25th uh fifty thousand dollars, and so he pays the 50 000 step to side fee.
Then the wvbc says we want another 100 Grand and finally, the candidate said: take your belt and shove.
It yeah, I’m you’re, just distorting money from me.
You don’t want me to fight Duran who’s, the biggest money fight out there.
You want me to fight your guy who’s, not even ranked, and that still goes on.
Tim welcome.
Welcome back champ s, you’re, looking you’re looking healthy yeah I’ve been training, hard, um, hey everybody, how you doing um I’ve been training hard.
I’Ve been teaching a couple of boxes, but what happened with me was uh.
My daughter had a changing job.
I had to babysit my grandkids.
I should have called the cup one time two twice I could have came on, but I forgot so today today she’s off and she got the grandkids.
So at a certain time I got ta watch him at this particular time make this something.
So you know what a couple of maybe a month and a half it’d be all good.
I was, but at this particular time let me introduce you there Lou, so so Tim out of curiosity, do you know Russell Peltz.
I know I’m real good.
Well then, in that case, you’ll be interested to know that the fellow we have on screen with us right now, Lou Eisen uh, is about to interview Russell Peltz, okay, his book called uh 30 in a cut eye.
So uh we’ve been having a great chat.
So far with uh Lou who’s, a boxing historian and an office, how are you doing how you doing yeah Russell Russell? That’S kind of tough, listen, Russell was kind of tough for negotiating and talking about uh, giving like boxers like little breaks and stuff um and it made the boxer stronger.
I don’t know, I know you wrote the book, it made this boxer more hungrier because he didn’t give breaks like every like a lot of the promoters.
Did he made you? Am I right? He might you fight that fight? I don’t know about bonuses and all that, but um he made you work for it.
Yeah Eddie, Mustafa Muhammad um uh Bam Bam, Heinz, who I said: uh Jose’s Farm partner uh.
He also worked with uh sad Muhammad, it’s about Muhammad.
If it was up to me at every Chandler, yeah, jolt and Jeff Chandler, who I think it’s criminal – that that more people don’t know how truly brilliant a fighter he was, he was the unlimited bantamweight world champion.
He was.
He was good he’s, really not doing really good right now.
I’Ve seen him about a couple of months ago, but everybody was talking about it, he’s not communicating that good and he had Mike Rossman and the Jewish bomber.
I was firing him.
I was in the same gym with him: keep it coming, Keep It Coming.
The saddest story in the whole book, which had me in tears, was Tyrone Everett, who had he had more talent.
That Russell said.
Nigel Collins, Angelo Dundee, told me this kid had more Talent than any fighter he’d seen in 50 years, and then he gets murdered by his wife.
Yes, and it was just sad yeah, but you know the circumstances, you know what happened right.
I think she caught him.
Cheating or something something like that: yeah yeah and then don’t go to bed with your wife.
His brother Michael tried hard Mike Everett tried pretty hard, but he wasn’t as sharp as uh his brother.
He was good, but not as good as uh Tyrone.
He was slicking everything yup, that’s the name you heard was Tyrone Everett yeah back in the day over in Philly.
Even before I started boxing Muhammad came on a little bit after that.
Well, around the same time, yeah Angelo said Tyrone Everett Angela, said when a fighter was great.
Like yourself, he used one word special.
He said if you’re, not special, you can’t be into sport because you’ll get hurt, he said Tyrone ever was special.
He was he was.
I wasn’t even boxing when he was doing all that big fighting.
I was, I just heard him Tyrone Tyrone uh and his and his brother, and then he had was Eddie was another one.
I don’t think he made it that far but yeah there was the name in Philly when I was before I started boxing Tyrone, never Tyrone Everett and saw Mohammed.
You know Alfonso Evans, yeah.
I was reading about that, but yeah I know all about him and, and they you know um.
As you know, Russell Peltz did five of Marvin hagler’s fights and one thing that always annoys him is the fact that Willie, the worm Monroe beat him all these revisionists.
On online, who are 20 or 21, who know nothing about boxing, say that he got robbed, he didn’t get robbed, Hagler got beaten and badly by Monroe.
He knocked him out again.
He knocked him out in two other fights, but not first fight.
I was blessed.
I was blessed, I was with Willie the worm in training camp.
I wasn’t in the same gym.
Who else did you said um? Who else did you say, Boogaloo Watts? I was in China can’t with him you the names of you saying I was around them.
I’M blessed man I’m blessed well, I got I got ta tell you because Cyclone heart, Cyclone heart, that’s a great Cyclone heart and they also.
He mentioned something in the book that Angela said to me, and Nigel Collins said that in the world of boxing is you know better than anyone? There’S tough they’re super tough and then there’s Philly, tough and Philly tough Angelo said when a guy like forming her listing, hits you and you just smiled back at him.
Those are the kind of guys that have no fear bad Benny, Briscoe, guys like that, you could look at them and and try to give him a stare down.
It’S not going to make a difference.
What you do a lot of it is psychological, and a lot of it is real hard, but it’s psychological too.
You do the psychological stuff, even though you got that heart right.
You got double things yeah and Russell when he when, when he published the book, hello, Benny Briscoe Productions.
So it’s it’s! It’S fascinating, starting in 69, at at the Blue Horizon and went to the Spectrum.
He also promoted uh Billy Dynamite Douglas yeah, like that one I saw Russell about a month ago.
We was at an event we as high.
We talked about about 30 seconds.
That was it you know um.
I can’t believe that I’ve been around all these great guys and now I’m here talking about them and how many of you I’m a two-time heavyweight champ, but I’m just like all these guys and got Knowledge from all the most some of them.
Why don’t you write a book? Well, there was a book real, quick guys.
I’M gon na burn up the time.
The guy from England, um um wrote a book, but he really we didn’t finish it because um I was asking them certain questions and um.
You know we wanted to put in everything like like people extorting me, people, money and guns and knives.
He didn’t want to put that guns and people being threatened.
He didn’t want to put that in there so yeah.
When I told him, I just look man there’s a lot of stuff about the mob, there’s a lot of stuff about this and that um he like got UPS, he didn’t get upset.
He was like.
I don’t think we should do that, so he we stopped talking to each other for about 10 days 15 days next thing.
You know, somebody from England called me saying that the book is a really nice read, and I said what we didn’t even finish: the book.
So he published a book without putting all the mob stuff in it, the other stuff in it and um we’re gon na I’m gon na try to attempt to uh to try to get someone to is even better now, because it’s more knowledge now it’s more people.
It’S more, I met friends after my career, so that will be put in the book.
So if somebody tried to write a book now, I think it’ll be better than that one, because that one was really good.
But now, since we waited, it could be a lot better.
Well, you know in real time he’s shaking his head.
Hey guys Grace.
Can I say something here: no, no over here in the corner.
Listen to me, man like I might as well just split you guys are having a great time.
You don’t need me around here.
Yes, we do wait a minute.
Why are you leaving? I ain’t going nowhere, I’m just playing with you? Oh God, it’s absolutely amazing.
I’M listening to you all the time you teach me everything all the time.
I want to thank you for that, of course, Mike you’re over here in the corner down here and all that there’s the big boss over there grumpy Graham right.
You know everybody knows garbage and now I get to meet the real deal over here.
Mr Tim Witherspoon, who I’ve been watching as a young boy.
My friend I watched every fight, I seen every one of them, nobody can dispute it and I always wanted to meet a guy.
Like you, you know the guys of your era.
I, like you guys, like you, know the Lennox Lewis’s the Larry Holmes’s hold on before.
I go past that Doug.
Can you tell me a little bit about that? Larry Holmes, fight, that’s something! Maybe we don’t know.
I was always intrigued.
Like Larry Holmes is like Larry Holmes.
You know what I mean and you’re Tim Witherspoon.
What was going on there? I think Neil’s a little star struck well yeah yeah and I don’t that never happens.
Ask anybody, but all right never happens.
It never happened.
I mean the thing is the thing is I had a lot to represent? I was born and raised 10 minutes from where Sylvester Stallone made the movie The Rocky you had all these great boxers from Philadelphia, I’m from South Philadelphia with Italian and the Irish and the blacks all lived together.
Um, like I said my mom, took me to the Italian market.
Just like he did in the movie we used to wave to people and say Hi and um buy groceries.
Then I went on to become the two-time heavyweight champion the world, the Billy shell.
All these different things – I ain’t gon na argue about anything, I’m really blessed.
You know just to be to be a part, so I had a great trainer and that’s who got me there fast.
I only had seven eight amateur fights, seven, eight amateur fights and I was 22.
I think uh.
He got me if it was anybody else I wouldn’t have made.
It was the one for you there’s a lot of things in the city, the fans in Philly man.
They crazy, there’s other places they’re crazy, but they support they support you a lot yeah.
I had a lot on my shoulders.
I was young.
I had a good.
If I had that good trainer, I don’t think we would be sitting what was his name Robinson.
He trained to do his mama right right, yeah, whipping everybody’s butt, slender Jim.
He he uh yeah.
He was a boxer himself.
Can you fight Ali at one point? Oh Slim in the early 60s slim bought for Georgie, he was a middleweight.
He fought Georgie Benton.
He put a lot of other guys.
Well, everybody knew him is slick, as Slim Robinson is really slick and smart boxer, Georgie Benton’s, one of the all-time great Fighters and great trainers too, that there should be a book about the man was brilliant yeah.
They should they should.
You know, there’s a lot of good people here, man so Tim.
I also remember I actually remember when you fought James, broad Brad abroad and then your second defense.
There was against Bone Crusher Smith and that was serious man.
Bone Crusher is a Bone Crusher.
Is he not like he hit hard? Did he not Hey, listen um, I’m gon na tell you I’m gon na.
Just you took him down the first time.
If you watch the first fight, I nearly shut him out, yeah uh.
I could I could have knocked him out, but I heard him a couple of times in the fight.
Oh yeah, I won almost every round, but in the second fight it was really political.
I knew that um Don King was really interested in Mike Tyson.
He didn’t care about Bone Crusher me or Tony tubs or any of the heavyweights.
He was just.
We would just meet getting ready to put out for tation to eat up, so he was sitting here to fight Mike and at the time he was trying to get Mike Tyson.
So right, the second time around I was supposed to give tony Tubbs a rematch.
I went over this on the show before and um and they didn’t want to give tubs the rematch, so they brought down King Bone Crusher man right so everybody was on me, made Tim.
You ain’t gon na win.
They ain’t gon na give it to you.
Even if you go to the distance because Don King made an entrance is Tyson so yeah you treat me bad, you treat me bad, and, and so I talk to my people, I said I’m not fighting bone Crush.
I for them already, I beat him and he’s a hard puncher.
No I’m not going to get in there, knowing I’m supposed to fight tubs.
So we we took the dive and I felt bad about it.
I talked to Bone Crush, he said no, I knocked you out.
I said okay bone, I’m sorry that we had to do that.
That was a plan, and so they went on with Tyson.
I was only gon na get 50 50 000 to fight Tyson.
If, if I would have um continue on with this with this, with this uh approach, the the citation I was only getting 50 000 in the contract – that’s weird! Oh! So you think I’m gon na get in there and fight some more guys, real, quick.
We got 10 seconds, I told my group a trainer and he said Tim, it’s cool, I said.
Look, I’m not going in there 10 rounds.
Is that hard behind puncher? I did it before and we’re gon na assume later and that’s what happened.
[, Music ], I’m gon na I’m gon na, say: okay guys he got me, but he did.
I watched those fights with Angela Dundee.
So when you fought Holmes when the fight ended, I looked at Angelo.
He said the kid beat him, but they’re going to screw him on the decision.
You’Ve got it.
That’S why I asked you that I’m gon na talk real long.
I’M not going to talk very long.
I just had a good time and I just wanted to beat Larry Holmes because he talked negative.
He downrighted me, so I just wanted to give it to him um win or lose.
I just wanted to get in there with him because he treated me bad before the wife.
You won that and with the second Bone, Crusher fight with Angelo, he said to me, you know, Tim would have taken him out if Don King didn’t exist right to go into a fight, knowing that you’re not you’re getting, he said, he’s not he’s not just fighting Bone Crusher he’s got to check behind his back for Don King.
I was a good actor.
If you see me in the ring, I acted pretty good.
I probably got a uh.
What do they call them trophies you get Academy Awards pretty good.
That did pretty good yeah.
I felt bad though I felt bad.
My mom was crying, my daughters was crying, they had to call him up and told him tell him what I did, because I didn’t tell him before the fight um.
You know and that’s the way it ended out.
I felt like I was some type of a person that was trying to straighten out boxing.
I felt that I was doing something positive and then we probably would have benefit later, so I didn’t care.
I took that.
I made the decision and Bone Crusher keeps saying Tim.
You know I knocked, I said bone, I’m telling you the truth.
I met him several times, you know in the public and I said boom, I’m serious.
I said I really I apologize to you um, but but we we went down, we went down three look at the first fight.
Every round almost beat so that’s what I talked to Bone Crush about and he still didn’t want to believe it.
You pitched a shout out in the first fight Tim.
Can I ask you one more quick question: remember when Larry Holmes jumped off that vehicle and landed on Mitch Green? Was it mid green today? What the hell was that all about really it was translator, trevorby yeah Trevor.
He was pissed off because Trevor Berwick, who I knew, who was murdered by his own nephews in Jamaica Trevor, perfect, was saying – and I spoke to Larry’s wife.
He was saying horrific things to Larry’s wife.
Yes, yes, it had to be something personal because it was it had to be.
You don’t do that I’ve ever seen.
You don’t make it personal before the fight with Buster Douglas is with Tyson Buster Douglas is a mother died.
Tyson said some terrible things to Douglas about his mother after she died and Angela Angelou just said.
Why would you do that? You don’t want the guy already wants to beat you now you give him an extra incentive to beat you.
You know mothers are off limits.
I was going to say that you know, as Angela said, to go into not to belabor it, but the second fight with Bone Crusher, just to have emotionally to have being attacked, like you were by Don King, to have a criminal, stealing your money and threatening you And meanwhile, you know there’s a point where Angela said we’re a guy.
Just goes, you know.
What just leave me alone I just want to get out of here is that third King still around Tim is that guy actually well, they well I’m sort of arrogant yeah.
They they know more um.
You know what I just left it alone.
Um Don King was doing a lot of negative things to a lot of different people.
I can’t go on with my life.
If I keep talking about Don King, so I had to make that decision and go move forward stop.
But you can’t avoid talking to people.
Ask you questions what happened here, what happened there, and and and he’s still winning he winning the battle, and you got to keep talking about him right.
I really I really like the guy, even though he ripped me off, because there is I seen inside and close and intimate meaning talking face to face.
I seen some good in them, even though he did that stuff.
So he’s the only one I tried to get him to do better.
I try to shaved down.
Can’T you just he’s like Timmy.
He said get out the office when I try to try to get him to do good, to do good, so um.
So and every time I see him, he give me a hug.
He say hi, but even though Rick almost mad about that, but I got ta.
Go on with my life: I’m not gon na.
Let him destroy me because I got ta have look what I’m doing now we’re on the podcast Tim.
Can I tell you a story yeah in the 1940s and 50s I wasn’t born.
Well, there was a Canadian fighter named little Arthur King little Arthur King was number one ranked lightweight in the world when Ike Williams was the world champion.
Hank Williams and Arthur King was having trouble getting fights he’s based in Toronto, so he had to go to New York and once he arrives in New York, there’s a knock on his door where his manager is with him from Toronto.
It’S Blinky Palermo, oh God and blinking points of that Adam just says, to the manic to the manager: you’re gone, don’t even get your bags, and so what happens is uh.
He never gets a shot at Williams, um and, and he fights in the states, a Canadian promoter.
Frank Tunney had to pay six seven hundred grand back then to break to get him out of his contract with carbo, so he could come back to live to Toronto.
I met Arthur King in the 80s and I brought this up and he went.
I can’t talk about cardboard Palermo.
I just can’t.
I said why not he said because if I did I’d go, buy a gun and go down there and kill them wow.
So for what they did to me, not just denying the title fight the way they ruined my life and my family.
I how I didn’t murder them is beyond me and I wasn’t the only one he said: Ike Williams ended up, broke and living in a park.
So I had a face to face with Blinky added face to face really yeah yeah.
Well, we call him Uncle Frank, like the blacks, boxers and stuff and then from Philly in South Philly, that we call him Uncle Frank um.
I met him a couple of times.
Yes, he approached me um, but in a nice way he approached me in a nice way and talked to me about trying to settle the lawsuit with Don um.
It wasn’t no aggression like really trying to get to me um, but sometimes when people talk like you, they’re aggressive, but you don’t realize it that when they’re trying to think in their mind you can get, but he we called him Uncle Frank.
I call him.
I call them uh Uncle Frank, a couple of times hey and he was really nice to me, but he was serious about trying to settle the lawsuit.
So I talked to him and then after that um we just left it at that.
We just left.
Let that you know when he came out of prison.
It was Don King who hired him car and Palermo worked with Sonny Liston, I mean Claremore.
Also he was a numbers runner in Philly, but he was also a Hitman for murdering.
So, as was carbo so there’s a famous story, Angelo told me about him walking into a Philadelphia gym and he said there’s about five or six African Americans there working up and he walks up to these guys – and he says you guys all now work for Don King and one of the man turned to him and said we’re not boxers we’re just working out, I’m an orthodontist that guy there is an accountant uh that person over there is an actuary he’s a lawyer.
We don’t want to be boxers, we’re just exercising you know, but Blinky had threatened them like you got to work for Don King yeah.
I don’t do this for a living there’s.
A lot of there was a lot of brothers that um and and it kind of not direct way, but there’s some some brothers there’s some Muslim boxers and um they.
They I mean I’m I’m just saying that maybe there were some words directed towards them, but they wouldn’t bother them that much.
No! That’S! Because of Ali with the Nation of Islam and Ali won yeah, I’m an Ali beat listen.
The first time uh Tony Pro provisano you’re, with some respect between the both of them and prop Tony Pro provinciana and Fat Tony Salerno were in were in Miami Beach and they approached Angelo and they said we get.
We get a part of him and Angela said I’m just a trainer and then Herbert Muhammad came out and said you get nothing you’ve ripped off enough black.
Ladies for the last 150 years and and and the mob guy said well, hey, hey! You know I got guys and and we’re armed and he said: listen, you have what, across the country three grand four thousand people, we got 85 000 Muslims who are licensed to carry firearms.
If you want to fight.
Let’S do it you’re right about that and they said you they just said: you’re done, you get nothing out of our league, it wasn’t worth it.
No, they would have wiped the mob out and easily wow.
Listen.
I didn’t have no trouble, I didn’t have no troubles or anything um.
I knew this stuff was going on.
They did not play either the the Italian mob didn’t play.
No, there was a lot of Muslims around young.
You know a lot of them was was really serious about Islam, but you know you just couldn’t mess with certain people.
No, they protect they protected them.
Well, that was the thing with listing and Ali people said.
Listen was afraid of the of of the Foy.
The fruit of Islam, the the security wing of the negative they wasn’t going to mess with Sonny they loved him too.
I thought Sonny had the mafia behind him.
Oh okay, I was young, I was young, then yeah Sonny had them all behind him.
He had Tony Accardo the the the most powerful mob boss in the history of United States in Chicago the outfit behind him, and he also had had uh a Palermo.
He had Frankie carbo, so he had a lot of different managers listed now.
Listen, listen was a headbreaker for the mob.
He was feared, you know so and and when I spoke to Muhammad um, you know one time I said when you when you went to the center of the ring for that first fight, were you really afraid of him? He said, are you that stupid he said? Are you kidding me? I’M scared.
She lives.
I was terrified of him, but Angelo said to me he’s older than baseball.
You know this guy.
He said my and he said my brother Chris promoted him in the late 30s sailor board, Sonny Liston.
He had the posters to show it.
So he said this guy’s not 32 he’s in his 40s and he hasn’t trained and he thinks he’s going to take in around and and after the first round ended and Muhammad comes back to the corner, Angelo slaps him on the leg and says how about that.
You’Re still here and second round you’re still here third round and then I’ll and then he just said you know when he blinded Ali Ali, got angry and then started to call his punches here comes a double jab.
Bang.
Bang here comes the right hand.
Here comes a combination, he’s pounding him and he’s telling him what punches he’s going to throw and he lands him.
So he was and Ali wasn’t afraid.
After the fight he said he’s a dirty fighter.
He’S got the he’s, got criminal elements behind him.
He’S got the mob behind him and the mob tried to Blind me and and Allah protected me and – and I want the world to know that Sonny Liston was not even a match.
You know that’s what he said.
He didn’t lay a hand on me.
Couldn’T hurt me and Holly wasn’t worried about the mob? No, no! He wasn’t.
I know for a fact.
He wasn’t worried about them.
I was born and raised in Southfield a lot of the you know the the a lot of Italian brothers and we we lived together.
We lived together and you know, and but I know that that that he wasn’t worrying about ali – wasn’t worrying about the mom.
The mom wasn’t worrying about them either.
So it had been the fight and somebody get hurt.
That’S all that’s the thing about the second fight.
When people say it was fixed, but I don’t buy that because the mom had no reason for listening to go down like that.
Even the first fight they said was fixed.
The mob would only let a title change hands if they controlled both interests of each fighter and they didn’t control, Ali and and in the second fight you know, uh Ali had the hernia.
It was delayed six months listing stopped training and Ali caught him with a good shot, and it was the same punch that he knocked Foreman out with.
It was the same kind that he knocked out a bunch of guys with Saint plan.
She dropped Carl mildenberg with with you know he hit that slip.
Slag slip, slide bang angel, I’m a boxer, there’s only five seconds, and I don’t it looked to me like that.
Wasn’T a hard enough punch he should have could have got up now.
You could take it from there, but that point to Ali – and I was his farm partner and and when he put it around, but he was sick, but just looking at it, that’s not hard to me.
It wasn’t a hard enough punch to make him stay on the canvas.
Well, listen! I respect that.
Listens shoulders, shuttered, but Angelo noticed something.
He said when listening through his left jab.
As you would know, his head was out over his front foot his left foot, meaning he was off balance.
That’S why he told Ali take a step to your right and bang him with the right hand and boom boom right hand.
That’S what he went right and then the important thing to remember is that almost happened 10 seconds into the fight.
In the first 10 seconds, we watched the tape Tonight on YouTube.
First 10 seconds Ali comes out right.
At least him listen throws a jab Ali slips.
It and then, and and then hits him with the right hand and listens, knees, buckle and that’s 10 seconds into the fight.
You know, and I think if, if the fight had not been stopped, listen still doesn’t make it out of the first round Ali was so hyped up and amped up.
At that point, he would have knocked him out.
It’S the move-in after he hit the canvas that got me thinking that, because the movement that he made afterwards, I’ve done that before with the Bone Crusher fade, so the referees get uh to feel like and the judges feel like.
Maybe I was really hurt, but no, you might be, you might be right or it or aren’t right, but we looking at it I’m saying wow, but you know why you know why he like, when he fell back he’s, not a good actor.
Listen.
You know why.
He said he did that later.
He said, I didn’t do it, because my head was fine, that’s not why I fell back into the canvas and rolled over.
I did it because Ali’s a nutcase and he’s running around the ring, like a madman, and how do I know he’s not going to hit me when I’m down or he’s going to kick me and if you look at him Ally’s running around the ring, like a Crazy man and and when he listens, said, look at the tape.
I was on my feet fighting back when they stopped the fight.
The fight never should have been stopped.
Um The Time Keeper.
It was Matt Fleischer who wasn’t even there as an official, just as a writer who was yelling at wellcot who’s, never refereed before or again stop the fight, the timekeeper called 10.
Walcott.
Who was a wonderful man and a great Champion.
He never said time you go to this corner and you go to that corner.
He never said to Ali, you go to the corner or it’s over stay there.
He didn’t do that Flagship got involved, everything got screwed up and then the timekeeper said he was on the mat for more than 10 seconds.
The fight is over, so it was a complete, wash and and Ally.
When I spoke to him said his biggest regret was that list and died in 1970 and he never got a chance to sit down and talk with him.
He said.
Oh, I never hated him.
I never disliked him.
It was all just to pump up the gate.
You know he had a bad life and you know he was a victim as much as anyone else.
So it was sad and of course, listing got nothing for that fight and he got nothing for the first fight, because the mob took all his money and and ran up charges on his.
I already I already died, pretty much broke.
Is that not true? The guy was actually broke, yeah, he was broke, he had no money, the mom had stolen all his money and that’s what I heard there was nothing he could do and and he had other fights, but he got nothing for them and they stole his money throughout His career, they just used them and typical mob once he we use it and you’re done too bad.
Don’T let the door hit you on the way out and so listen when he wanted to you know when he moved to Vegas, he wanted to be a [ __ ].
He wanted to be a loan shark, and now you said you’re just my hustle for hire.
That’S all you are, and he said well, go to the press and say that to these guys and as Tim said, these guys don’t make idle right.
They they don’t say we’re going to do this.
You just end up dead in advance.
I never I mean they’ve.
Never they’ve, never I’ve never known Angela said this.
They to make an idle threat, they just do it, they just do it.
So you know I was born and raised.
I was born and raised five minutes from Angelo Bruno Nikki scarf or where they used to be three minutes huh.
You know Nikki’s girlfriend that guy’s a serious cat, listen! No! I met him before I met him before, but what I’m saying they’re only three minutes away from where I was born and raised matter of fact, my grandmom lived on this block.
All you had to do was walk two minutes down and you’re in the Italian neighborhood yeah and Scarfo was the one who had Angelo Bruno killed and in fact you can trace I’m not speaking on all that, like I don’t want to talk about this anymore Lou.
You can trace the Philadelphia, mobster Philadelphia, Mafia involvement in boxing all the way back to the second Tony Dempsey, fight with uh, Max boo, boo Hoff, who was a Jewish mobster in Philly and when they wouldn’t let Dempsey fight in New York, because he wouldn’t fight the Black Fighter Harry Wills uh, they moved the fight, they had to move the fight within a week or two weeks to another location and boo, boo Hoff said: don’t worry, you can bring it to Philadelphia, but we got to book the stadium I’ll get the stadium.
We got to get the commission.
I’Ve got the commission you’re talking about the Jewish guy yeah.
I was born and raised right near the juice Market.
Yeah yeah man right here was a big time officer there.
Oh okay, so you know wow, so you go back yeah, not not the Jewish had a market right.
Where my block I lived on in between seventh and six right on Seventh was the Jewish market and every time Christmas come, they put lights up and everything it was cool.
We worked.
You know I told, on the show before I mentioned, that a lot of the young blacks worked for the Jewish in the Jewish Market.
We did yeah, we did stuff for the Jewish people in the Jewish Market.
Yup yeah, there’s history, man.
This is cool.
There was a fighter in Philadelphia, I’m not gon na make it a long story.
I promise, but name Owen Ziegler fought in the 1880s and [ __ ], so he’s fighting then, and prayers moving along.
You find out because he’s got Philadelphia, muscle behind him, so people in New York, you know, listen to the people in Philly and they’re.
This was the 1880s and they’re trading off Fighters.
Damn no hey guys! I just want to say something quick.
This is the longest I’ve ever not heard Mike or say something Mike.
Are you alive over there, honestly, I’m just listening to the history man, it’s great! It’S good yeah me too.
Obviously, we’re completely blown away between uh Tim and honestly.
This is a real pleasure before we continue before we continue with the history.
Just let me talk about the fights quick I’ll, just mention them I’ll, just punching them.
Yes, sorry, yeah, that’s it! That’S it we’ll do it we’ll do it guys we missed uh.
We missed the Frasier clerk uh fight, it already happened, so I’m not gon na really talk about it.
I’M just gon na tell you go and watch it.
Caroline Dubois Aaron McKenna’s on this one here, Janelle Riley Isaac Chamberlain.
This card was packed.
You guys didn’t get a chance to see it.
It was this afternoon uh, you know, title was up for grabs at WBC International middleweight.
It was vacant, uh, McKenna, Lima.
This one was good guys, just go and watch it uh.
Next one we got ta talk about it, Tim Zoo, Carlos Ocampo, coming up tomorrow, uh this one’s great guys.
Also, we got Justin Frost taking on Hassan for the Australian super light titles, and then we also have Paisley hippie taking on Troy Pilcher for the Australian National boxing Federation Queensland heavy title uh, so you guys can check that I’ve done both things yeah.
That was a mouthful yes Crawford Spence.
I got Crawford who’s.
Everyone else have, or is it too soon to pick um? I think real quick.
I think that, because I’m so harsh, not harsh, I’m so uh aggressive with defense.
They both need defense.
They both good offense yeah.
I don’t see the old-time stuff where they keep their hands closed.
Anybody could get hit and lose that fight.
That’S the only thing I got to say and I’m a good defensive boxer, I’m good, I’m okay offense and these young people today and always on the show I’ll be saying.
Defense is really a problem on the day’s boxers.
The old timers used to do stuff like that.
Now everybody just doing this yeah, that’s right! That’S it that’s it! So I anybody can win that fight if they get caught go ahead.
I’M sorry tomorrow, 8pm guys uh get ready for this one program: what’s 8 P.
M! Tomorrow, 8pm progress, zarrilla card, yeah that one’s for the WBC World super flat or super late.
Uh Ramallah, ali uh is taking on uh Jalissa Guzman for the ibf Intercontinental super Bantam title uh, then you know the bottom of this card all filled up with some.
You know nice, nice, leprechemers man, Jenny Fox, is on here uh Aaron, Aponte uh.
We got chakra, so this card is pretty stacked too.
This one gets ready at uh underway at eight o’clock.
You know Eddie heard Matthew unboxing.
What can we say disown? You know they’re.
Always coming through with great great events to watch so guys remember that we’ve got one in the morning happening in Australia.
We got one happening tomorrow night and there was a card today that we did Miss uh so I’ll.
Let you guys go and watch that I’m not gon na tell you, because I already know the outcome of all of it, but uh I’m gon na.
Let you guys out there go and watch it because uh yeah it was.
It was a good card.
You could get the cards because we not rich, like you, watch get every show and stuff y’all get all the shows and stuff.
Did anybody picks a guy? Did you see? Did you see the weigh-in with Fraser Clark? No, I missed that.
I missed that was.
It was it another, was it another slap off? What weight class Frazier Clark looks up, looks up at the guy and goes ooh he’s a big boy.
It’S heavyweight, I think, there’s super heavy weights actually like yeah.
These guys are big boys and um.
You know the guy that he, the guy that he took on, is a veteran in this game.
Man he’s been around a real long time.
Yeah Marius walk yeah, yeah man, this guy, this guy’s no joke.
Like he’s a big boy, you know he’s been around a long time in this game and yeah, so you’re not gon na tell us who won yeah.
Do you really want to know? I don’t want to know.
Okay took it on points, guys, that’s uh! That’S the outcome of that one: wow yeah, that’s a shocker.
Actually it is a shocker that you know.
That means that Frasier Clark is down proof to 7-0.
Somebody said the Wayne was crazy.
Oh totally, the the guy thought was a monster.
I’M Blown Away, one six.
Seven, six seven and a half with an 82 inch reach.
That’S a that’s good for team GB.
Quite frankly, yeah did Caroline and I Dubois come through really yeah come on.
I really like what she’s saying lately I mean she’s, saying the right things: yeah that went the distance as well um uh, her opponent was down around five and uh yeah.
I went to distance yeah.
You see that um that film of the clip of one of my favorite Fighters, Anne wolf and she knocked out Vonda and wolf yeah Honda, whatever her name was white or something or Rhymes, or something and Ronda Rhimes was like six seven yeah.
That was a nastiest shot like whoa.
Oh, I remember that it was this.
She was a Caucasian girl right and she was out for a good 20 minutes yeah like drugs.
I seen that big tall girl and wolf started jumping around the room, yeah and and when I spoke to Anne, she said that she she said, I’m just waiting she’s gon na I’m just waiting, she’s gon na throw that right hand and then she’s gon na drop.
It bring it back and the minute she throws it and flipped it, and that was it, and I tell you yeah, you get a special conversation with Ann Wolfe and we couldn’t how you doing.
What do you mean we could, and I can get that.
Oh okay on Facebook he’s also she’s a she’s in the Hall of Fame, which is great, very very kind person he’s tough she’s, very tough.
Honestly.
What do you think about her and and um the gold medalist girl, what’d, you think and well she [ Music ].
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