Haney vs Loma: The Decision Part 2 – The Art & Impact of Fight Scoring | The Scorecard
EPISODE: Episode 1
Welcome back to ‘The Scorecard’ hosted by your favorite boxing analyst, Cedric Benn, on the Talkin Fight channel. We continue our in-depth discussion from the last episode, shifting our focus on ‘Why It’s Important to Score Fights,’ particularly analyzing the recent ‘Checkmate’ clash between Devin Haney and Vasiliy Lomachenko.
In ‘The Decision Part 2,’ Cedric Benn elucidates the art and science of boxing scoring. Exploring the nuances and tactics that come into play, he will dissect his scorecard for the ‘Checkmate’ battle and provide a compelling case for the importance of professional fight scoring.
This episode provides an opportunity for boxing enthusiasts, both veteran and newcomers, to delve deeper into the realm of professional boxing scoring. Gain a better understanding of what judges look for in a round, how they determine who wins, and why their decisions can sometimes be controversial.
You will get to learn how scoring fights accurately can lead to better predictions and overall more enjoyable viewing experiences, whether you are at the Grand Garden Arena or in your living room.
If you are eager to delve into the fascinating world of boxing and want to comprehend the true essence of professional fight scoring, this episode should not be missed!
Remember to like, share, and subscribe to the Talkin Fight channel for more of Cedric’s expert insights on the boxing world. Stay ready for our future episodes of The Scorecard with Cedric Benn. Let’s get back in the ring!
#HaneyvsLoma #BoxingScoring #TheScorecard #CedricBenn #BoxingInsights #TalkinFight
Foreign welcome back to the boxing scorecard, where I asked people to bring your scorecard and an explanation, simply your opinion and we especially especially needed it.
This past Saturday um Haney versus Loma, two, the decision part two part one um is on my YouTube: channel technical difficulties.
So now we’re here back on talk and fight YouTube Boxing YouTube channel out there, let’s get right into it, let’s get right into it.
The reason why so on this is because uh, obviously every single boxing show out there is the decision.
A lot of people were okay with the decision and also that were not okay with the decision um.
But one thing one void that I needed to fill um and that I don’t see any other box talking about, which is why you need to subscribe to talk.
[ __ ] fight, because this is the only place where you’re gon na find information is specifically talking about the numbers for not the paper view numbers, but the actual punch, stat numbers four fours uh Undisputed championship match between Haiti and lomachenko.
I I hear every show talking about the fight their other scorecards.
You know it’s.
It’S mostly opinions that I’m that I’m hearing here’s the reason why it is important to to score art and impact of fight scoring is what I’m about to explain to you right now.
Um and then you know with that being said, you don’t have to specifically score every single fight, knowing the the opponents, for example, if you’re watching Deontay, Wilder or gervant boxes that are known to finish off their fights and to not specifically not go the distance, you Don’T necessarily have to score those fights, it’s really about predicting when it’s going to happen with uh, with those guys, whether it’s um, but when you’re facing two.
When you’re watching two high-level boxers past weekend, Devin Haney undefeated, vasili machenkates amateur boxers ever coming into the pro ranks fastest fastest boxer to titles in multiple divisions, is lomachenko and um yeah we’re just facing each other.
Those are the fights that are important to score.
This is the reason why these are little things that a lot of people don’t think about when you’re, when you’re watching a full 12 words about approximately 40 minutes long.
You know 12 times 3 36 minutes we match in between rounds.
You know you’re watching the coaches.
Listen to what the coaches are, giving the instructions about 40 minutes.
So the reason why it’s important I bring that up is because, if the [ __ ] half of the fight for the first 20 minutes, if, if it’s back and forth for the first but then in the second half of the fight one one of the boxers Kind of pulls away with it, your recent memory is going to be on the box.
It up pulled away with it.
That’S just not one of the the most common thing that I hear from people that did not score the fight that uh that went for lomachenko.
Let me well, let me just give you my score correct.
I scored in a draw as a fun but the most common thing for people that did not score the fights and are saying that might totally understand that, because, because I scored the draw, which means, I could definitely understand, but I just wanted to break down the The specific numbers on whites and people were saying this this.
It was really the story of the fight that people were doing it off of uh um, because a lot of people were saying the first half and because lomachenko was winning the later part of the fight.
They felt that’s not how you score the fight man, and this is based off of who was winning near close today.
You know just comparing to other sports doesn’t matter if, if you know, if you’re down on points and the other team makes a catch up to you in the points that you scored not just because they went on a run close to the end for the match.
In any sport, so that’s including in box boxing specifically for the first, so the first six rounds.
I had it four two for Haney the last six rounds I had at Fort now, let’s get more deeper into into those rounds because the first half of the fight those four to six rounds that I I uh four out of six rounds, that I scored for Haney, those were very the last half that was more for lomachenko’s rounds were a little bit more clear, more detailed into the into the stats.
Yes, yes, thank you for pulling up my my um.
Let’S just go: go through the picks first, because I’m gon na run through the runs.
When we get to the punt stats part, then we can pause there.
So if we can get to, let us get those up please so, but I’m going to start with the total punches, which is for both for both boxers and the percentages.
Now, please pay attention so total punches starting with 780.
First, he landed out of 405.
for 27 percent landed 124 out of 564.
, so the total number of punches shows that you see Haney Landing more now.
Here’S where, where the the things people kind of get messed up actually through 159, more punches.
This is where the thinking that lomachenko was winning – you know the the rounds that they felt that he won, if they’re through more but did not connect.
So out of throwing a hundred and almost six, he actually only connected on 14, more than Devin Haney deeper than that out of those 14 punches is nine of them were Jabs emphasis, so I just talked about the total punches uh look looking below machenko.
So again, I’m not mad.
If you had it for Oklahoma or Haney, I’m just giving you the numbers.
The only three out of those 12 rounds did lomachenko have a higher land than than Haney, and only three of them, and one of them was the first run where they both landed.
Six punches okay, now moving on to the next one uh um.
This, I mean sorry, total Jabs, total Jabs landed in the the 14 more punches that pachenko landed nine of the more Jabs deeper into it.
So for Haney he landed 20 out of 188, which is only lomachenko.
Landed 29 out of 250.
only landed one percent higher than uh nine, more Jabs out of 12.
out of 12.
um, upstairs specifically for Loma Loma percentage of Jabs four out of the 12 rounds for and just to get the first round um it was.
The seventh round he landed one more jab, the eighth round.
He landed two more Jabs, it’s the difference between throwing and Landing The Landing person.
You know so Loma in Jabs landed one percent more than Haney.
The third one punches Effectiveness.
This is the main difference between the amateurs and the producers.
It’S more of the pop pop and the pros you got ta have a little bit more more um, a little bit more big punches for a lack of a better term, so Devin Haney landed, 90 90 out of 217.
landed 95 out of 314.
For so again, yes, Loma landed more, it was, and the percentage of Landing more like Annie was at 40 percent, 90 machenko, 31, 95 for 304.
So again you know I like to I like to compare other sports well actually, before I get to compare looking more into deeper into that power or punch uh, that power punch, that line two out of the 12 rounds did Loma Chen, go actually land a higher Percentage of 11 and 12.
– I got it up right here on my laptop 11 and 12 of power punches the numbers, the let’s look at these percentages of power punches, like the the in the percentages of power punches.
So the first number I’m going to read is Haney.
The second number is going to be first round 45 to 28 percent second round 42-34, fourth round 60 to 17.
5th, 29, sixth round 58 to 18.
, 3 to 27.
, 9 around 50 to 25, and then the last two rounds were the only two rounds that lomachenko Advantage of power punches um against David Haney.
The last two rounds around 11 was 40 Subs around that he killed.
Everyone thought it was round 10, but it was really around 11 that lomachenko dominated and 36 to 32.
As far as percentages and again, this is the reason why you needed to score the fight, because this round alone kind of messed with my mind when I read it, because in the post fight press conference that he took the 12th round off.
So anybody who said he said himself that he took the 12th round off so um, but it’s crazy, even though the percentage he landed.
A higher percentage, uh Haney was nine for 28 Lumber machine go with 12 for 33.
um, so yeah interesting little stat there.
So again it’s about, are you? Were you going for the the busier fighter or the the more effective puncher um other small stats when it comes to body shots? Anyone? I think anyone who’s been involved with boxing, whether you’ve um not just competed in the sport, even if you just sparred a couple times or just train [ Music ] um, would understand that Landing body shots is slightly harder than Landing punches to the Head.
In most cases, because not that it’s harder, but it’s more riskier.
Sorry, let me rephrase that it’s not that it’s harder, but it’s more riskier, because, when you’re throwing to the body you’re leaving your face more exposed because you have to aim lower even though you’re bending your legs you’ll have to aim lower, which leaves your face more Exposed to for a counter punch um, so when it comes to to the body shots, Devin Haney landed 50 body shots compared to lomachenko’s nine single digits, nine, fifty to nine um.
So I give a little bit of more work.
So when there’s close fights, there’s little things like this, that you look to to make the difference right.
So I just said 15-9 with body shots.
If you’re involved with boxing, you know that Landing body shot is more riskier.
It takes you, take more chance to do that because of the risk that you’re taking and Devin Haney landed 50 of them compared to lomachenko’s nine.
So I gave it a little bit more weight to those in the close rounds in the close rounds.
The marks that the the rounds that I marked as close rounds, which was nine out of the 12, that it marked as close rounds um.
I forget what was going with that, but yeah Devin Haney landed a higher percentage of of uh of those punches in in those close rounds, and it was the effectiveness of his body punches that I believe made the difference.
Um compared to lomachenko’s pop pop Haney came with that boom boom.
Those more thudting punches to the body that are harder that are harder to uh to touch from there, I’m using my phone.
So I can’t see if there’s anybody in the chat, let me double check real quick anybody need shot, knock knock.
Hopefully some people come into check.
Come with your, like, I said with your scorecard and an explanation um what other things to talk about this fight? Man, the tenth round, so there’s a lot of controversy about the the tenth round, because apparently the one of the judges, the judge that made it 116 to 112.
He gave the 10th round to Devin Haney everyone’s going crazy.
I gave the 10th round to lomachenko just to be clear, um everyone’s going crazy over that.
But let’s, let’s look at the the numbers.
Let’S look at the punch numbers from there so specifically when it comes to Jabs in that 10th round, all right yeah, so Haney landed, zero Jabs lomachenko Haney was Zero for 11.
Lomachenko was three for 25 for 12 percent for power punches in the 12th round.
Devin Haney was five for 14 at 35.
Lomachenko was eight for 24 at 33 percent, so the total punches total punches for around 10.
Devin Haney five for 25, 20 lomachenko 11 for 49 at 22 percent.
So again, I by the numbers – this is total punches landed for round 10.
momachenko was that 22 Haney was at 20.
So it’s not crazy.
I don’t think it’s crazy for, for the judge to to to give round 10 to to Haney again me personally, I gave round 10 to lomachenko, but again going by the numbers.
You can’t say it’s crazy that it just gave it to Haney now round 11.
This is the the funny thing, the reason why I am specifically bringing up around 10 and 11, because the whole boxing world is going crazy over around 10 being scored for Haney by by one of the judges.
I really haven’t heard anybody emphasize round 11.
I get sorry, I shouldn’t say that there there are people that are that are that have mentioned round tens and eleven, but I guess it’s because the referee, the official that was scoring the fight, gave rounds round 10 to Haney, is why everyone’s really focusing on round 10.
um, but it was really around 11.
round 11 was was lomachenko’s one and only dominant round.
It was this one and only dominant round when it comes to Total Jabs eight for 24.
uh Haney was one for 12.
Lomachenko was eight for 24.
and he is at eight percent launching go at 30 when it comes to power punches.
This is where he, this is.
Where really lomachenko dominated that 11th round, Haney was only one for 16 in power punches in that 11th round.
At six percent lomachenko was 12 for 26.
At 40, almost 50 percent of his power punches was lomachenko in that uh in that 11th round, so that was his most dominant round um and, as I said, lomachenko said himself in the post-fight press conference that he he he felt he was winning so easily that He took, he purposely took round 12 off and gave it to Haney um, which is like, I said, is one of the craziest things that you could do as a fighter.
You should never you or the coach.
You should never judge your own fights shout out to one of my uh up and coming boxers training out of Montreal right now, kyoma one time when he came back to the corner in one of his matches between rounds.
It was a close match and he came back to the corner and he asked me he’s like yo, be honest with me: did you think I won that that round I looked at him.
I said I’m not the judge, so it doesn’t matter.
Okay, I can look at you and tell you.
Yes, I think you won what, if all all the judges don’t think you won, what does it matter? What, if I thought you won or not so my whole point of saying is that don’t get caught up? Judging your own fights you just for the simple fact like, if you have to ask yourself like ask your coach, if, if you think, if they think that you won or not, you know yourself that it was a close round.
So if you know yourself it was a close round, then you have to make that effort to make it more clear to the judges that uh that you want it.
You got to make make it wait way more clear uh.
Do we have those those uh, those picks from the from the comp you set? I got them up here, so yeah hold it hold.
This uh here is my official scorecard um, and I had to put these numbers in afterwards because I had to watch.
I was watching it the the I had to watch the fight on my phone, so I had to write these to write the the the 10 9 scores in between rounds.
So I wasn’t tallying up the scores in between rounds.
Does it go to round 12? No, it stops there.
I wasn’t counting up the scores between rounds to make sure that I have it that I had it even at the end, I had no idea.
I had no idea what the score was going to be when I, when I finished scoring each round all right, so that last round was Devin Haney’s round.
If I didn’t give Devin Haney that round – which I didn’t know, if I didn’t give him Devin Haney – that round, it would have been 115 to 113 for lomachenko is what I would have had it.
So it was one round difference 115 to 113.
One round from having in a draw that’s what two of the judges had it so for everyone to say that this is a crazy robbery like it was one round off from being a draw again going by the Numbers.
Lomachenko only had one dominating round in the 11th other than that there was no no clear round.
Sorry not that I should say there’s no clear round: let’s, let’s go, let’s go through my specific uh numbers again, so I’ll break it down into two halves and take a sip of my water here.
So the first six rounds.
I scored it 4-2 Haney four to two with a handy um rounds.
Three and four I gave to lomachenko.
Well, let me give you the details of each round so round one the first two rounds I gave to Haney first round, even though I gave the first round to Haney, you can tell that Loma changa was closing in the distance already um and again it was Definitely a close round because only six punches were exactly six punches were landed for each fighter, so anybody who’s saying one one person clearly won the round.
Obviously you did not score the fight and you did not research any of the any of the stats.
9, any close round second round ten nine Haney um, I like how he’s coming to the head with a jab and bringing that straight across to the body with his right hand rounds three and four I gave to lomachenko.
Lamachenko came more that pop pop, but he was doing it a lot more often than uh than than Devin Haney in that uh in that third round number four Loma.
Barely that was my notes around number four Loma, barely because it was close around five and six.
I also marked as close rounds, I gave those rounds to Haney.
It was back and forth, and here yes, I made sure to put a a star beside this uh statistics here.
So the punches – the punch that’s through round five for anybody, that’s trying to say that it was clear.
This fight was clear for one fighter or the other punch that through round five at this point it was already it was already almost what the end of the fight was 27-20 for Haney.
At this point, through round five Haney landed 49 punches out of 182.
That was Haney landed, 49 out of 182 and at this time lomachenko landed 44 out of 223.
All right, that’s how close it was 27 for Haney 22 for lomachenko Haney, throwing a little bit less, but landing more yeah.
That was through the first uh five rounds and then uh, but because those those rounds were close, that’s what I mean because those rounds were close and and people didn’t, most people didn’t score it.
They didn’t know they were just like yeah, whatever it’s a close fight and in the second half let me go through my second half stats.
Now so from seven to twelve, I have Loma running round seven uh more active Landing, more still marked as a close round round eight.
I marked that as a close round for lomachenko round nine, I gave it to Haney marked out of the close round 10 and 11.
I marked for lomachenko and around 12 and Mark brahany, so there you go there, you go um again.
This is why it’s important to score these fights man, because close fights like this, it’s hard to remember in a 40 minute match it’s hard to remember what you did.
What you know if it’s a close, the first half of the fight is close.
It’S hard to remember how you would have scored it almost 40 minutes ago, when uh, when, when the fight first started, I’m not sure how clear these stats are for you guys, but uh, as you can see right here.
These are the stats that I was reading off um from before, so again, look at the top shelf.
There total punches sit Too Close total punches landed.
I have to get close, so I can see the numbers myself, the top shelf there total punches landed um again.
Oh yeah, I forgot to give the comparison to to other sports.
If you play other sports like baseball whatever right you, don’t you don’t get rewarded for how how many times or how hard you can swing the bats you get rewarded for how many times you make contact with the baseball in Fair Play, not just making contact, and It’S going foul either making clear contact with the ball, not just swinging hard.
If you play football, if you’re a quarterback, you great rewarded for completion of the past, not just because you can throw hard and far and fast and a lot right, you get water for completion of the past same thing.
In boxing you don’t get rewarded for for how fast you can throw your hands.
You get rewarded, how fat, how many times you can land your hands on your opponents.
So, according to the stats, that’s how you have it! That’S how you have it and there you go.
I just kept it a short one.
Today, like I said man, I just wanted to um just want to do to do a quick show, um, because I don’t see any other shows out there.
Boxing shows other than here right right here on the talk and fight Channel, where someone’s going to be talking about the the top, the compube Box numbers and by the way, these copy box numbers.
This is not just some random websites uh, some random person, just throwing some numbers up numbers out there.
This is um recognized throughout the boxing industry, as uh as a reliable source for punch stats for uh.
For about so there you have it there, you have it um.
So please encourage you to score score more fights.
Now again not you know, you don’t have to score every every match, but if it’s it, if it’s an anticipated boxing match between two high-level boxers that aren’t known for their uh, their knockout ratios um, then you should score the fight that way.
You don’t have that way when you’re coming to arguments with other people, you’re, not just coming with your random opinion, because opinions, man, opinions, can change in any way.
Like facts are facts, you can’t change facts.
That’S why people don’t like people like argue with me, because I don’t really argue with just my opinion.
I can if, because the thing with me, if you can tell me something to help me change my mind, I’m very open-minded.
If you can tell me something that’s going to make me change my mind, I am I’m open to it, especially if you’re coming with the statistical facts to back up your argument right, I’m open to change, but I mean you, you can’t deny you can’t deny the Numbers here so with that being said again, I scored it a draw, not mad if you had Haney winning or Aloma winning, because it could have went either way by one round and even with that judge that had it 116 112 everyone’s going crazy over 116 112.
That’S only two rounds from having in a draw that round 10.
If he didn’t have round ten, If he, if he, if he scored round 10 for lomachenko, the score still would have been 150 and 113.
one round off from being a draw.
So that’s it! Man go go through the picks one more time, please the the fight picks.
If we go through the fight picks, I did a little bit last time um, but just to go to the the you know the rankings again where, where does each boxer go from here? It’Ll just be two seconds: we’re gon na get those picks up: yeah yeah yeah.
Let me get the rankings up here.
Um Devin Haney has some choices to make because, but he has to make these choices for him.
The one thing that I’m hearing on all these boxing shows is everyone is telling him that he has to move up to 140.
Devin Haney said himself.
He knows that all the money that the big money, not all the money, the big money is that is at 135 pounds, even though he didn’t seem like he struggled to make the weight here.
Well, I’m not sure I didn’t.
I didn’t really see any signs of him struggling wait in the fight, usually if someone has, if someone is struggling to make weight.
They’Ll, like you’re you’re gon na show signs of that in the fight whether it’s fatigue, whether you’re slowing down Devin Devin Haney, did not show any signs of slowing down in that fight.
He looked like it was sharp the whole time um accepting that 11th round when Loma put it on.
That was the only time that Loma looked dominant other than that it was.
It was close close to Old Time.
So what do each fighter? What are they? Looking for, of course, the the big dog is gervante tank Garcia, I mean sorry gervante Tang Davis, that’s the biggest money fight at 135 pounds, I’m not sure.
If that’s gon na happen next, both guys just are coming off of big wins.
That might take like a a slightly a slightly lesser level opponent, just as a little just just uh get back in the ring before they face another big name again, um, not sure vain is going to move up.
But again he got uh Frank Martin, who was talking a lot of trash.
Frank Martin is an up-and-coming name.
He trained with uh Derrick James and Earl Spence and Jermel car and Jamel Charlo, um, Ryan, Garcia, just joined their Camp.
Anthony Joshua just joined their Camp.
I said this the other day, man, I think, Derek James.
I said it’s years ago that Derek James, I think, is the best trainer in boxing today with Earl, Spence training, Earl Spence, as he was a kid he said uh.
He has Undisputed Charlo right now and there’s a reason why uh Anthony Joshua and rank Garcia Joe to train with him, so yeah yeah, shout out to Derek James um.
He already took care of cambosis Isaac.
Cruz would be an interesting test for Devin Haney, someone that does not run out of the gas and is coming forward at you.
The whole time, Jermaine Ortiz, would actually very be very interesting uh, Michelle Rivera who, who uh tries to emulate Muhammad Ali with his his shorts and his haircut and everything I like him.
I, like his style, he’s cool he’s cool William’s.
A beta is a good competitor too so anyways yeah, there’s some dogs, of course, Shakur Stevenson.
That fight won’t be happening anytime soon, though, especially because Shakur’s still on top rank, even though Devin Haney’s a free agent right now uh, I don’t see the Shakura fight happening next, but definitely in the future um I wish Devin Haney would have stayed in the ring When Shakur stepped into the ring after the match, apparently what was said as Devin Haney was leaving Haney looked over at uh at Shakur and said I’m number one and Shakira looked at him and said not for long.
So that should be very interesting in a couple of years: yeah yeah yeah, all right man there we have it for today.
Thank you very much for taking time to to watch.
If you haven’t done it yet.
Do me a favor and please like this video subscribe to the channel.
If you haven’t done it yet and tell a friend to tell a friend, yeah yeah, you could catch me on any social media at Cedric Sports, the scorecard we got to bring your scorecard and an explanation.
I will be back, I’m actually going to be in France for two weeks with Team Canada at a training camp with uh with some other top some other top countries there.
So that should be very interesting, um I’ll try to do a show, while I’m in France the seven hour.
I think there’s five or six hour time difference, so we’ll have to figure that out, but um shout out to the talking family, yeah, yeah Network talk and fight the number one Boxing Channel on YouTube.
If you can’t catch the show live, you can catch it on any social media platforms, yeah talk and fight at Cedric Sports peace,
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