AIR DATE:
EPISODE: Episode 1
Transcribed
[, Music, ], foreign, [, Music, ], hey, hey everybody! What’S going on, it’s your girl, no mercy here, it’s Tuesday night! So you already know what time it is.
It’S time for no punches pulled with me, no mercy.
Some of you probably already know who I am those of you that are new and are not sure I am your host broken Millbrook, Formerly Known in the fight business as Brooke no mercy deardorff.
I am a retired professional fighter.
I held the WBC lightweight title until I retired and I was inducted into the international women’s Boxing Hall of Fame.
Last year 2022.
.
I have been through some good, some bad and, of course, a lot of BS in the sport of women’s boxing.
But this is my platform where we talk to talk and walk the walk, we’re going to bring out the truth in women’s boxing, we’ll talk to Pioneers in the sport past boxers current boxers, even future boxers uh we get down and dirty here and talk the truth Of what takes place in women’s boxing and behind the scenes, unheard things that nobody’s ever heard before straight from the fighters um, You Don’t Want to Miss a single show.
So please definitely make sure that if you’re new here you like subscribe and you share – because you don’t want to miss a single show here – every Tuesday night with me at 8 – 30 p.
m – Eastern Standard time, but y’all this week we got a special one.
This week were joined by none other than the remarkable Layla McCarter Layla is a professional female boxer of immense talent and unparalleled achievements.
Uh she is her awe-inspiring career spans, multiple weight divisions with numerous World titles under her belt from reigning as the wibf and GBU welterweight championships 2018 to previously holding the ifba featherweight title in 2000, the wibf super lightweight title in 2003, GBU Junior Welterweight Title in O3.
The WBA lightweight title twice between 2007 and 2009 and the WBA super Welterweight Title in 2012.
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Layla’S Legacy is undeniably legendary.
All her Incredible Journey.
Hailed as the 10th best female boxer of all time by Ring magazine in January of 2016.
, she’s been honored by the prestigious Nevada and California Boxing Hall of Fame and was the second female ever to sign with Mayweather promotions in February of 2017.
at the age of 44, Layla still continues to amaze boasting an impressive record of 45, 13 and 5 having faced off against the absolute best.
There is in the business y’all.
Please help me welcome Layla McCarter to the show.
What’S up champ, how are you it’s been a while, since I saw you at the inductions, I’m great Brooke? Thank you for having me and thank you for that beautiful introduction.
I appreciate that.
Yes, thank you.
So much it’s an honor to have you um.
It’S a pleasure thanks for taking the time um to come on the show today and share your story with the world, of course, yeah my pleasure yeah, so first um, I kind of always kind of like to take it back to the beginning.
If you could just tell us a little bit about like your childhood um and when and what led you to decide to do boxing? Well, I uh as a kid I got involved in martial arts by following my brother into karate, Ed Parker’s, American Kenpo, Karate first, but um as he went back to football and other things.
I stayed in that vein because it gave me a lot of structure and discipline things I needed.
I found a lot of good in the martial arts and I everywhere we moved.
You know we moved a lot so um.
I don’t think I lived anywhere longer than five years until I moved here so, okay, yeah yeah.
It’S definitely tough when you’re trying to move around, but there’s always mixed martial arts or some type of Jammer facility that and then from there was a series of choices from uh full contact karate.
I was involved in point tournaments, you know and then you get into full content, karate aspect that was new um and then uh LED right into kickboxing um.
When I went to the kickboxing gym the first time I had my first smoker there.
I realized that I didn’t really know how to fight yet so I was like I need to learn yeah.
I know I as a kid did like taekwondo and karate um, but it’s the style is too completely different.
It’S a rude awakening.
It’S like everything is totally different from The Stance to everything: totally um people always laugh and they’re like well, who would win between like a mixed, martial artist or like a boxer or even like a karate, but it’s the styles are just too different apples and oranges.
Yeah yeah totally different um, what’s up Boxing Channel, how are you thanks for tuning in um or with the champ? I know you shared it.
Thank you so much um so tell us about um the first time you stepped into the boxing gym and you’re experience.
Being a female in a male dominant sport, did you have any issues or trouble with trainers wanting to work with you or any of the guys at the gym? Well, you know, as a female boxer and being in a man’s world, you’re pretty much ignored.
You know almost encouraged to quit and so for me, though, coming from the martial arts and from kickboxing, I really thought I was tough.
I was I was badass, so I didn’t let it deter me but um.
You know it’s hard when you have no support, and you know those few gleams of support those little bits help so much.
You know like the slightest bit of encouragement is like you’re starving and somebody gives you a cracker he’s like okay, yes, yeah totally yeah.
It only takes one or two people, even just a comment, but then you’re like oh, they notice.
But I remember gems that didn’t allow females at all, and especially in California, I won’t mention the specific gym, but they just don’t allow females at all and I’m like well, I’m looking at these guys hitting the bag and they can’t do what I can do so Right, you know, I got really insulted and I told him you know what put me one round uh with every guy that you have here and if they can knock me out a leaf.
If not, you need to let me train and then I just couldn’t get mad and left anyway, but never happened.
Yeah um, just totally incompetent yeah, incompetent with people um a waste of time.
It wasn’t even worth your time or effort at that point exactly um.
So I know you similar to me had a very short amateur career.
I think I only had like 15 fights you had 11 12 yeah, actually 12 10 and one as an amateur um did you have any like really good memories from the amateurs or anything that like stuck out that you enjoyed in the amateurs I know mine was So short, there really wasn’t.
I had a lot of great times in the amateurs you know because being a the only female, usually um, it’s it’s a different experience.
You know you’re sharing a room with a bunch of guys, yep and you’re on the road, and it’s just it’s it’s a strange thing but um I had fun with my teammates in Spokane we were a core tight group, Dewey Welliver, uh Chauncey, oh well, Chauncey was Later but uh nalo Leo, all three of us went to the blue and gold Nationals and all three of us came back with the title.
We we won in 1998, and that was a really great moment for my team, and that was probably the best moment in my amateur career yeah.
That’S awesome, yeah for all of you to go and all of you to come home with wins.
That’S huge yeah, especially at a big tournament, take the buses.
We used to try and raise money on our own, and you know it was pretty tough but um we did and it was.
We had a blast yeah.
I know I didn’t get to do much traveling in the amateurs I just did the local Chicago Golden Gloves and Nationals um, because yeah you had to pay for everything out of pot very similar to the pros uh yeah, a lot of it um but yeah, and Then I just didn’t: have the money for it so yeah you don’t get as many opportunities, because you got to literally pay for everything out of pocket yeah.
We did a lot of silly car race, uh car car washes and things like that and barely barely got anywhere.
You know borrowed money and um yeah.
You know raised 20 from this business.
Ten dollars from that one.
It was crazy trying to travel and fight.
But yes, very little yeah yeah um, but you um in February 4th since February, 4th of 99 is when you made your pro debut um.
You did win unanimous.
No! I I I debuted in 98, actually, 98, so, okay, so I think so they have that typo.
They have that wrong, then I guess so yeah.
If in BoxRec it should be there 1998.
I thought the Sean yeah, that’s the fight I was talking about so either.
I wrote it wrong or it’s wrote, yeah, it’s 98.
As far as I know my whole career.
Okay, well, I’m sure you know better than me um, you know, but I just did research.
I thought Laura Serrano in 99 at The Forum and yeah yeah.
That was when I had five fights in already.
Yes, I’m gon na ask you about that.
One too, but um, so your first pro fight big difference for you between amateurs versus Pros.
Did you prefer Pros versus amateurs? What was your? What was your mindset after your pro debut? Well, it was.
It was an experience because, once you get hit with those little gloves, you know it’s a it’s like whoa.
You know you, you start moving a lot faster.
You start moving your head out of the way quicker and – and I think you learn way faster in the pros than you do.
You know even going back to the gym and taking it back to the the drawing board.
You know your advancement is faster after you turn pro for sure yeah.
Definitely I mean um same for me because I didn’t have very amateur fights either, but you, the headgear, you wouldn’t think, makes that much difference, but it really does yeah.
I never liked that stuff.
No it’s hard to see, and it was bulky and all of that, but taking a punch with it off versus with it on is totally different, so yeah you’ve got a whole different mindset.
When you go back to transference you get marked up with those little gloves, especially gloves.
You know yeah, even even the bruises just from the rubbing right, um, so yeah there’s a lot more involved in it totally um.
So we always talk about inboxing, especially women’s boxing.
It happens in the men’s too, but controversial fights um.
You had a big first controversial fight that took place um in 99, when you lost a four-round split decision to softball great, Laura Serrano um.
You fell to one four and four: she improved the 6-0, but that decision was generated by lots of booths from the crowd didn’t agree with the shutout scorecards from two of the judges on Laura’s side.
Um tell us about the fight, how you feel it went and um like just obviously, everyone felt like it was controversial.
So what are your thoughts on that? Well, yeah.
It was a close fight, but knowing what I know now that you really have to dominate to win anywhere um, you know – maybe I didn’t do enough, but I really thought I had it three rounds to one and um and you know it was controversial and I Loved that I I had a great fight with a great you know Champion somebody with a name I didn’t know who he was coming in you know back then we didn’t have the uh, the internet, the knowledge, but I I called around I found out.
You know um, I was really uh.
I was so green in that fight.
You know so green, but yeah.
It was a great experience and yeah.
I didn’t agree with the judges and she hated me from that day on, but we became friends later yeah.
I think hi, you know, and I didn’t I didn’t get along with a lot of girls that I fought immediately afterwards.
I mean some yes, some know, but yeah look now like um.
It’S like there’s no point like we can always we’ve all been, but I feel like that was her process that she had to hate everybody that she fought, and I was never like that.
It was a sport to me and when I got in oh yeah, yeah yeah, that was the same yeah yeah I um I’m the same as you like.
I, when we’re in the ring it’s business sure but like we can be cool before and after, but in the ring it’s totally yeah, it’s competition, that’s all it is yeah.
I don’t think anything.
I didn’t take anything personal, but I remember that experience with Laura Serrano being so tough because you know I didn’t have a lot of money.
I came down uh for this big fight and the promoter didn’t give me the food money until right before we’re going to the venue – and we were there for three days or two days in LA and I I ran out of money.
I had no money um, so for the day of the fight, my my pre-fight meal was a seven layer burrito from Taco Bell, because I had two dollars between my trainer and I and I kept telling them John.
You know take a bite he’s like no you’re fighting, you know, that’s how screwed up we were and how yeah it was.
You know, but um.
Those are great memories.
Now because we survived them, you know yeah, I mean it just made us made you stronger exactly it made you a better fight, it’s all good yeah, yeah um, and then we were talking.
I was looking back, and I know talking about struggling in February of 2000.
Is when you decided to make the drive to Las Vegas um, I think it stated you had like 200 bucks to your name that got misreported, but it was five months.
Well, that ain’t much more, that’s like pennies, but okay, 500, but struggling to make it in the heart of the boxing World Las Vegas um.
But this is uh where you got the help of a stable mate set you up with meeting with your manager, long time manager, Louis Tapia, who at the time, according to that, didn’t want to meet with you because of your record um, but tell everyone about that Time in your life, the struggle, the decision to make the move to Las Vegas.
Why um and then meeting Lewis and starting off your boxing career, strong? You know I was working a lot of dead-end jobs, industrial jobs, Spokane was full of work, so I never had to worry about quitting a job.
I could go out the same day and get another one.
You know it was that kind of town.
So but I was working a lot of I made Windows like vinyl windows and doors I did uh.
I was making instrument reads before I came and um in a little Factory with nine of us and um.
I just decided if I’m gon na give my career a chance.
I had six Pro fights already.
I wasn’t doing well, you know, as stated, I was one three and one when I fought Laura Serrano, so one four and one after that, so I really wanted to just do better than getting sent to somebody’s Hometown and losing Hometown decisions.
I said I need to go to the boxing capital of the world.
I I didn’t know anybody here.
I just decided and I bought a car um for a thousand dollars.
That’S all I had and um you know it was supposed to last a long time.
You know Nissan yeah.
It was either that or Mazda Miata for the same price, but I didn’t know how to drive a stick.
So I took the Nissan two weeks later it broke down on me when I got to Vegas, so at least I got here with it and uh yeah, but the the whole point was.
I was on my way to California.
First, I was going to set things up in Las Vegas kind of remotely and then move here ultimately.
But when my car broke down, I said well I’m here now, so let’s just try and make it work, but with 500, as you know, and no place to stay really um.
You know I ran out of money.
I was staying in a hotel on Industrial for like 32 a night and it was a pretty shady area – pretty scary, yeah um.
So I called my friend Victor Ortiz in California, who I knew in the amateurs and stuff, and he was a pro fighter before I’d met his parents in Simi Valley, and so I asked him.
Can you call your folks and see if I can stay with him? So he did and when they picked me up, I had enough for I had forty dollars left, so I had one more night and some Taco Bell left in the pocket, so all right job with him good time, yeah yeah.
He got me a job with him at pet Clark Pontiac, and I was a lot Porter and I was going to the gym and training I booked my fight at the Regent, Hotel, um.
That’S where I met Luis Tapia um, a friend of mine, that I used to spar with Dexter Williams in the Nevada Partners introduced us at the fight.
He said uh.
This is my manager, Luis Tapia, and he said – and this is the only girl that ever rocked me, and so he told me well, yeah yeah come down to the gym.
You know next week, okay, you know so and that’s uh um.
He put me in with a couple guys to spar and then he’s he said.
Well, what are you looking for? What do you? What do you want, and I said well, I just need a place to live and food to eat for, like a month, I’ll pay.
You right back just give me a fight and I don’t want anything for free.
Let’S just work he’s like okay and I was so lucky in that day.
I think he just pitied this poor little wave from Spokane, but you know in the end it all worked out.
Yes, absolutely Um, well hey, and they don’t all.
So, let’s just say that you know because some of them have.
I feel like a lot most.
Like 95 of the men in the boxing business um on like whether trainer manager promoter, what they don’t have like, I feel like they have no feelings like they’re, just like they don’t show any remorse or feelings at all, especially towards women.
Well, women.
You know we’re kind of The Outsiders we’re not supposed to be here in a way where we’re we’re treading on their territory.
It looks like, and I kind of feel the same way and I I hate to say it but like when I see certain women come to the gym.
You know the kind that you know the type that think it’s a 24 fitness yeah and they’re there to pick up men or whatever you know, it’s not that good place and they put us backwards.
You know yes very similar to like when they, especially back when, when I was actively fighting the rare chance that women got aired on TV exactly it was those two type of Fighters and they made us look like totally 100 and I’m still today I mean that Happens a lot they do it.
Today, too, I mean they’re getting better but yeah, I’m like that’s.
Why right there, they just aired that crap yeah.
If there’s a bad men’s fight, it’s hey those two guys suck, but if yeah women’s fight, oh women’s boxing, is terrible.
You know yeah, don’t air it, it’s not fair and that’s why I think a lot of the time we didn’t get it because they always picked the girls that they felt like looked the best or whatever, but they couldn’t fight it all.
So they just made us look like trash yeah.
They put us all in the same boat.
You know yeah um, very yeah, and it it’s getting better, but they they still do it some, but yeah it’s getting better than it was, but I know back then every fight I saw I was like this is freaking trash, and this is why we can’t get Exposure yeah, but I agree with you yeah um, but after that, after returning to the ring April of 2000, you won your next sixth straight.
Moving your record to seven four and one with an easy win over reigning: Champs Sandra yard for the ifba featherweight title, and you also at that time became the youngest boxer to win the ifba World title at the age of 21.
.
Tell us about the fight um.
How you felt it went and how exciting it was to have your first world title and to break a record.
Oh, that was a thrill.
I didn’t know about the record until after the fact, but um going in they called me on two weeks notice: hey the the opponent for the championship fell out.
Would you like to fight Sandra yard for the title I was in Beast shape they didn’t know.
I had had my peace of mind because Louise put me up in a place to live.
I was eating, and so I was training my butt off.
I was sparring 10 to 15 rounds a day running five miles every day and I was in the best shape of my life.
So when I went down there, I beat her from post to post and it was just incredible feeling and my team.
They were glowing.
You know I thought this is it I I became the champion.
You know little did.
I know that that didn’t come with everything and solve everything, but you know it was a great great feeling.
Yeah absolutely um.
Let’S see I got women’s boxing channel is chiming in he says: Hey Leila um.
Oh he’s told me about this.
I think it’s pretty cool, I’m doing a new method of pound for pound by stats, starting with current Undisputed out soon, as I’m sick of bias with sites voting favorites friends rather than who should be ranked um, I.
E, ESPN and ring doing it for he’s doing it.
For the first era and the second era um, I consider wibf wbf, i b a i w b f to be the alphabouts pre-2002.
Who do you consider were the pound for pound Queens back then, oh well, um, that’s tough, gosh! I have to go back in time.
Yeah right, Martin for sure was up there.
I mean – and she was in that era of course, and uh yeah – that’s the one with the most exposure aside from her.
We had um, you know Hannah Fox and those, but I don’t know who is the best.
I’D have to watch and remember: yeah um yeah.
You guys were up there.
Bridget Riley got notified, you know they all got recognition which isn’t the same as you know, who is legitimately the best, but yeah right.
A lot of good kickboxers, um Diane Dutra was there.
I mean we had a lot of Fighters.
Who is the best yeah? I mean? I don’t know, I think Christy Martin has Chrissy Martin.
I think I agree with you.
I think Christy Martin would be number one.
Yes um.
She was badass.
I mean I don’t care who she fought.
I mean they can say the competition wasn’t that great or whatever, and I used to say that I used to criticize a lot but look who was there? You know yeah, there wasn’t she thought who was available and she did a damn good job.
Yeah um at the only and I said the first era being up to 2002 or 2005 second era, starting from O2 or 05 to today, from 2002.
To today I mean there’s there from 2002 to for the second era.
There was way more females sure that I think were really deserved to be like say, top 10.
.
That would be like our era like when me and well.
You started before me but like when I started, and you were still there all the way up till today.
I feel like I was yeah.
We were still in that era yeah, because you got.
You really started your career about 2000 2001-ish right like really like yeah, I mean 98 was when I turned Pro.
I had six fights when I moved here in 2000, so yeah.
I was almost 21 when I came to Vegas and but the rest of my career was probably in the 2008 9 10 yeah.
You know through 12 later was good good years for me yeah.
I agree so yeah that I don’t know.
That’S the second era that he’s talking about there’s a long list, there’s a long list and you know what I really like now is sinisi Estrada.
You know that little girl is she fights like a little little boy and she’s like incredible she’s got great skill tenacity.
I really like yeah, I like cynicia um speaking of the Katie Taylor fight.
What did you think of the last fight? I honestly, I don’t know if I watched um, that was with the Cameron yeah.
I didn’t watch the fight, yeah.
Okay, I feel like um.
I’M really looking forward to the rematch.
I did watch the fight um, but I feel like something was wrong with Katie.
I don’t know if she was sick, uh or something, but you could just tell from The Ring walk like something was off.
I honestly feel she’s been like that for a couple fights now, even in the Amanda Serrano fight, I noticed something maybe neurological the way she yeah and her right foot wouldn’t hold her.
It was something I think she needs to possibly retire.
That’S just in my yeah.
It’S a side, um opinion, but I think she’s she’s had a good career and a good yeah.
She was slow.
She wasn’t throwing combinations like hardly at all, there’s something else: yeah yeah something was off so yeah.
I don’t know if yeah, but I think it might be time for her to hang him up and before any damage.
You know before any permanent damage, yeah and Amanda’s.
Barrado, of course, has done her thing.
You know and she’s been up there for a long time.
Yeah doing a lot of good things for women boxing for the exposure.
You know some some great history moments like the one with Katie Taylor, yeah totally agree um.
So back to you, though, you were nominated by W band as the most improved fighter, though for 2000 um.
Were you surprised by that, and was that like an important milestone for you? Oh, it’s a great honor, of course, to be recognized and I I feel like it was deserved and that there was such a great upset moment.
You know taking on the champion and yeah yeah.
That was a huge fight for you and it was a big uh improvement from my my career.
To that point you know yeah.
I totally agree yeah well and going six straight in that year I mean it was.
It was the seventh one was the title fight.
I think that I was uh seven fights straight with Lewis.
Yeah seventh was the title fight.
Yes, so um.
That was great.
You know, because I had everything I needed for the first time in my life I had you know stability in a way that you know.
I had a roof over my head, I didn’t have to worry about.
You, know, hustling and trying the food work, my butt off to get there um yeah.
I just worked my butt off in the gym and that was perfect.
Ideal yeah totally um.
Now, after that, though um you had another big um controversial draw with when you were defending your ifba title in 2001 against JoJo Wyman um, you guys fought to a 10 round draw, but everyone felt like it was very controversial, but you had broken if I believe Right, you had broken your hand two weeks prior to the fight um at least that’s what they stated.
I don’t know if that’s accurate or not uh, second fight with her, I I did damage my hand, but that was later um, okay, but that was the fight that they didn’t let Luis in your corner for the fight that was like two years.
He wasn’t in my corner or a year and a half he was suspended so uh.
He wasn’t allowed to be in my corner when I defended with her and I defended with Tracy bird.
So it was pretty tough, not having him there mentally, and my head was somewhere else, and that was definitely probably I’d say.
The toughest fight in my career honestly yeah well, and it seemed like from what I, from reading about it, that you did didn’t know that he wasn’t going to be allowed to be in the corner until that day right.
I can’t remember when I came first, the one with Tracy bird or her, but I think uh yeah.
Maybe it was a last minute thing.
Nothing like throwing off a fighter going to the ring without her training know the thing but no excuses.
You know.
Jojo Wyman came to fight and my head was elsewhere and I really feel that she had.
I not been the champion, she should have won the decision.
I mean you know like like we say you have to do.
Yeah, close fights should always go and I definitely got a gift in that fight.
In a draw honestly, I feel that she deserved in even playing field.
She deserved to win that fight for sure could probably busted up.
I I was looking at the left hands and I don’t know where my head was, but I was eating them and just kind of like okay, and I tell people all the time I mean.
Sometimes it’s just like a job or anything you do.
I mean sometimes you’re there and some days it’s just not your day, totally yeah, physical or emotionally or whatever, sometimes you’re.
Just and it’s just the me in my early 20s was an emotional mess.
You know I didn’t have my stuff together.
My head was up and down.
I was the hormones whatever I don’t know, but I couldn’t keep my stuff together and um yeah.
I had a lot of fights where, like uh, the second fight with sandyard, I just gave that fight away 100.
I never should have got beat by her.
I mean I had the Speed.
I had the skill, I had everything the youth um, but I went there and I gave the fight away two two rounds.
Then I was boxing and then you know filling it out and Lewis told me in the corner you’re this up.
Sorry excuse my language, you can say whatever you wrap this up.
This is our last fight together.
There’S no more fights you know, so it got really in my head.
I’M you know me being me: just threw it away, I’m like really you want to see effing it up.
This is effing it up.
So I was in the in the ring not paying attention to my opponent, just letting her hit me and looking at him like no look.
This is what it looks like to get to mess it up this.
This right like this, is me doing it.
On purpose.
Look boom, you see, that’s effing it up.
I you know I was so stupid and I threw the fight away and Lewis was mad, and so he left me in the corner.
You know he he walked away after the fight and uh.
That was tough.
You know, because I I wanted to just jump off a bridge.
I was so upset with myself and my head was messed up and yeah.
I remember just walking out on the dark Highway in Ignacio Colorado out of the tent, and I was just like yeah.
That was a good moment, yeah very um, very emotional, very tough, especially when you feel like you just didn’t give it when you just didn’t give it your all like I wasn’t there, you lost yourself the only like the only problem that you lost to that night Was you exactly it happened to me multiple times in my career? I can’t say I don’t like to disparage anybody’s.
You know victory over me, but honestly I I beat myself quite a few times yeah at least the last fight with Melissa Hernandez in the fight with uh Sandra yard.
I threw those fights completely away and Joe Joe Wyman.
The the draw same way I just yeah yeah gave it away.
Yeah I mean sometimes you just can’t emotions.
I always said I need a team of monkeys that can get in my head and fix the wiring, because there’s something going on there, that I can’t yeah, sometimes if you’re, just freaking off you’re, just freaking off yeah, it’s like quicksand, it catches you and you can’t Pull yourself out of it, you see that you’re screwing it up and the more you say, I’m screwing it up the more you screw it up and the worse it gets yeah so horrible.
I totally understand that um and then speaking of another one though um I did um interview, Tracy bird as well.
You were talking about that.
You defended against her as well without Luis in the corner um, but you did get the victory over Tracy um yeah, yeah um.
I know she felt like she won the fight um, but you clearly feel, like I mean, obviously won that fight.
You know I.
I dropped her, but it was a close fight.
Also, you know it’s 10 Rounds, so just dropping somebody doesn’t mean you won or um.
I feel like.
I won that fight by a a small margin, and I thought okay three times on an exhibition in my career and all fights could have gone either way.
Honestly, they were just so evenly matched and just so close yeah, so close that yeah, I wouldn’t have been mad either way I mean it was I I was the beneficiary but um.
There were close fights yeah, but great fights.
A great fight.
Thanks um women’s Boxing Channel, said great comments: Layla about Katie Taylor um at 44.
What I love is you ain’t, desperate to build for Undisputed anymore, yet you continually get beat up these young.
You continually go, beat up these young Fighters and still take World titles.
It’S a remarkable career.
Thank you, one, every fight since 2007, 22 with five tkos absolutely, and she would have a lot more than that women’s Boxing Channel.
If people would fight her, if I could be active, that would be incredible.
I should have a hundred something fights by now, but it’s been so slow in the end of my career.
There’S this promotion and there’s a lot of other things.
Besides, you know: hey, they don’t want to fight me.
You know it’s not always like that.
It’S like there’s a lot of factors as far as money.
You know, there’s people that would probably fight me if I was willing to go there for twenty dollars.
You know, but I’m not that’s younger me.
The younger me goes for whatever yeah yeah, the younger.
You would have probably been there for five bucks, but the me of today uh is feels that she deserves more because she’s done she, I’ve paid my dues and um.
You know I feel like they need to step up with the money if they don’t want to.
It’S not worth my time.
I built my legacy and that’s kind of where I am today where you know if they don’t make it worth my while, I’m probably gon na do maybe another fight this year and I’m thinking just to hang them up.
I’M surprised to hear that, but I know you know I understand I totally understand: nothing’s, making sense, money-wise and so yeah um.
You know, I’m not gon na go chase Fighters around to to have them turn around and make me a a legitimate offer and then have to turn it down and look like yeah, and you know right because then they’ll just be like well.
We offered her fight and she’s gon na, say: oh she’s, she’s she’s uh pricing herself out of the game.
Okay, I’m pricing myself out of the game, but I’m I deserve to get paid.
So I’m like wow.
You deserve to price yourself out of the game, because we’ve took in pennies for paychecks for how many years the the keyboard Warrior doesn’t understand that and they they like to talk smack about people.
But you know what how many of them have got in the ring.
Like we did it, and you know they don’t have room to talk, so I I don’t bother me and half of them, don’t even know what it’s like to fight a fight for 500 bucks or a thousand dollars for an eight round like they don’t even have A clue or less like you know, yeah, yeah or less I mean, let’s not even go there yeah, even though I’ve had to chase promoters for money literally chase them right, never get paid like yeah, because they’re like gone you’re like why didn’t get my paycheck yeah And um the BB King theater in uh La I literally looked at the promoter from across the kitchen in the back room and we Louis and I chased him – we never caught up with him, but you know that’s the way it is in boxing.
I guess yeah ugh, I just uh the not so good memories of boxing it’s in the past yeah.
Sometimes I don’t know which one outweighs the other, the good or the bad, but it’s all good stories anyway.
You know it’s all memories um another great icon, though, that you did face in 2002, Kelsey Jeffries um for the ifba featherweight title.
That was my um.
You came up short on that one, but you were extremely outspoken after that fight feeling that you for sure won the fight um.
I have spoken with Kelsey.
She definitely feels she won the fight um.
I just interviewed her a few weeks ago, but can you tell us how you feel the fight went? I mean I know you made it very outspoken that you think you won the fight, so walk us through them.
You know at the time you know a time and perspective changes things knowing that I’m in her hometown, it’s her birthday, I’m fighting in her hometown.
I brought my belt to offer.
Like you know here I am defending in her place so yeah it wasn’t ideal and um.
Looking back, I guess I don’t think I did enough to win.
You know um I’ll have to watch the fight again at the time.
I totally thought I did mostly because in the last round I almost knocked her out.
I hit her with the right hand, but, as we know, that’s not enough to win a fight yeah so especially in someone’s Hometown yeah and overall it was a close fight.
So yeah, I’m okay with that decision.
It wasn’t like that.
Okay, all right well yeah, and sometimes it’s a matter of sitting down and re-watching and re-watching and re-watching like because I know like in the Heat of the Moment when you’re actually in the fight and you’re like well.
I did this this and this, like.
I know I got it and then and then you’re like what the hell yeah.
We tend to do that ourselves.
You know Fighters because we want to.
We want that to be the reality and – and we see it that way, we’re looking at it from a biased perspective, but when you sit back and reflect you say you know what um, where we were fighting matters, and you know I didn’t do it with that.
Just like with Mel hallback, when I fought on ESPN Teddy Atlas had me winning the fight.
I thought I won the fight, but it was such a close margin that you know what that’s boxing and and but the judges had it completely out of whack.
Like 191 judge, I mean it was such a close fight.
It was disgusting that decision but yeah and that’s the problem with it sometimes is like it’s not right.
Robert yeah, it’s been like a point or two’s difference like okay, I’d be okay with that yeah, but the the other one or something saying it was a shutout yeah that was corrupt but um.
But overall I don’t feel too bad about the loss because I feel, like you know, I was close enough.
If I was on an even territory, not her promotion, I could have pulled it out, but uh four times totally um.
You did win, though um your second title: Junior welterweight, GBU title with a win over Lisa Halloween: oh yeah, um, yeah um.
How was that fight and getting that second title? Was that just as exciting as the first or just kind of like? Oh another boat? No, no, that one felt amazing because we’re fighting in her promotion and uh.
We pulled it out this time we were able to take the Victory, and I was in such great shape and just trying new things and excited about boxing.
I was I was doing faints and she was so big that it made the fence work beautiful.
You know she was big and kind of slow, so every time I got close to the corner, I would uh faint left and go right through a right hand or faint left.
You know, go, go left and throw a left hook whatever and and a few times.
I did a triple faint.
It was so beautiful, like left, right, left boom and then move.
It was so pretty of a fight that I just I I was really proud of that and um.
I got to meet Barbara butcher for the first time, because that was for the GPU and um.
That was pretty neat to meet a Pioneer like Barbara who yeah I have not had the pleasure of meeting her.
I mean I hope one day before you know before it’s all over I’ll get to get to meet her, but um she’s in England.
Now um.
I know um I’m just kind of hoping that she’d come to the inductions one of these years, but yeah she’s up there now in age um but yeah, it’s harder to travel, yeah she’s in good shape for her age, she’s, she’s, a she’s, a great great person And I really love Barbara a lot yeah um.
I do very similar, though, when I went and fought Mia in Mexico for the rematch um.
I had the same feeling when I won the WBC title when I took that from her, because it was in Mexico exactly and just I think it made it that much greater exactly yes, because when I beat her the first time I was a replacement fighter.
I wasn’t even supposed to be fighting her um and I beat her the first time and she made it this big thing that I I only won because I was the favorite fighter.
I mean I wasn’t even from there, but it was in Indiana, I’m not even from Indiana, but you know she wanted the rematch and it had to be in Mexico and I’m like okay, no problem as long as you put up your belt, or at least one Of them she had multiple belts at that time, um, so we did get the title fight, but winning, and it was a decision over there right same type like a huge like I don’t know, I just made it that much more 100 yeah because you took it From them in their home territory like their home territory, that and a decision, that’s like that’s the best feeling, yeah yeah, I I I have that feeling myself.
You know um in other countries and it’s just yeah, I think at least four undefeated fighters in their own country, uh, South Africa, New Zealand, Japan and Canada, Juliana yeah, his first loss and yes, I was gon na.
That’S the next question: that’s what I had for you um Elena mernovich um February.
12.
2015.
You handed her her first loss in Canada in our hometown um, but I have the same feeling similar to that, though, because I traveled and fought Mary McGee in her hometown when she was 17-0 gave her her first loss in Indiana um.
I only think I had like five fights at the time but um after the fight I kind of giggled, because after the fight they asked you what advice you would give the hometown fighter after you beat her, and you said I would tell her not to take Another fighter against someone with something something not 30 something fights when she only has nine right.
I thought that was a great and hilarious answer.
Thank you.
Um tell us a little bit about that night, um beating her, giving her first loss um and then, like obviously, the after questions.
I just thought that was awesome.
Like I I rolled laughing when I read when you that’s what you said because I was like that’s like a perfect answer, yeah was that in our first fight that I think the interview was probably yeah.
That was the first one I think well yeah.
We fought three times all three in Edmonton, Canada, her hometown, um, the first time she was 9-0 and I had 30-something fights, I’m like what are they thinking you know, so we were able to sneak in there and and do what I had to do and it Went um and right before the fight, her trainer uh somebody came to her trainer because we heard from the other room Lewis was in the next room and he Ard him say: why are you fighting this girl? She has too much experience he’s like well, it’s too late.
Now what do you and we’re here we’re here already? You know, but it was good.
You know I was able to pull that off and then the rematch a few months later, I knew I had to knock her out to win because they had it stacked against me.
I knew that yeah, but I was prepared to do it.
I said no problem but um.
As you know, I broke my arm.
I threw a wild punch in the fifth round, just kind of straight armed, her right in the the head almost knocked her out with that punch.
I saw her wobble and then I was you know, but my my bones snapped the radial bone yeah.
I finished the fight with one arm.
I wasn’t able to pull the victory, but I told myself you know I might lose this fight, but I’m not going to lose by knockout screw that right I mean I’m just gon na lose by decision and we’ll have a rematch or whatever you know, and so I went to get my three more.
I think it was a eight round fight, so three three rounds plus to go um and it just got dirty because she was hitting me in the arms.
She realized something’s wrong with it and I’m like uh.
It was so painful I just was taking it away from her like hit me in the head or the body or something hit me anywhere, but my arm fight.
It took me three years to get her back in the ring because um you know they ran away with it.
They talked crap on online and you know we beat Layla McCarter.
That was the number one lightweight at the time.
I was the WBA like uh.
No not not yet, but I was the number one lightweight and um the only way I got her back in the ring three years later was putting up my WBA lightweight title against her in her hometown.
So I’m like here we go again.
You know yeah same same scenario yeah and she had the WBC 130 pound belt at the time she didn’t defend.
I I defended and I I made her pay for all the pain of the fight before yeah and um.
I thought I yeah and it’s very hard.
I and I hate – I know that Eric and everybody that’s would talk if I is from Canon and all this, but I traveled to Canada also and when I fought Olivia garula um and I still and she was defending her WBC uh feather.
I can’t remember if it was featherweight or I don’t know if one of them and yeah I took, I lost the decision.
Um didn’t agree with the decision, but yeah.
That’S always tough, but yeah.
It’S very hard to.
I feel like to win it’s hard to win in anybody’s Hometown, definitely even more so overseas, and when we went to South Africa was the hardest um I mean I felt that was me against the world in a way you know when we went there um, it Was all African you know they were doing the war Stomps and the you know, yeah was talking crap all week, hell we’re gon na knock you out on Friday or Saturday, whatever it was, I’m like yeah, okay, we’ll see yeah and um.
We tried I trained my butt off and um in the eighth round.
I cut her with a good left hook and made her eyes roll, and I hit her again to make her make sure she got her out of there how’s, probably the greatest knockout.
I think.
Yes, definitely the greatest knockout of my career, because the way she fell with her arms above her head, I’m like she’s, not getting up no huh.
Sometimes you just know like when you hit them yeah, but they I was surprised, she actually got off the ground, but she was stumbled and you know the referees stopped it when he should have.
But you know if she could have survived to the final Bell.
You know I knew that I was gon na get screwed on the scorecards, so that probably was my greatest moment that I can remember and what a feeling that was yeah, that’s huge, so huge um, let’s see women’s Boxing Channel, says um.
What will you do after retirement? Will we see you doing commentaries, you speak so well or maybe coach or manage um? You need your own show on talk and fight.
Eddie says hey, she could join us on talk and fight.
That’S kind of you! That’S really nice to say um.
I don’t really know I want to do something involved with travel.
I love to travel, that’s my main passion.
So anything that can afford me the the means to travel, I’m down, okay.
Well, there you go and you could always do.
Commentating and travel true, Maybe reffing or or coaching if you coach, you can travel with the fighters yeah.
It’S not my thing.
I feel like um for boxing it’s a very personal thing for me.
I’Ll probably be around spreading knowledge and you know pass down some tips, but I’m not going to be a coach because without me in the driver’s seat, it’s not me it’s not for me.
I don’t know how to plan that but yeah.
If it’s not you doing it, it’s the passion, isn’t the same yeah I can’t be a driving coach.
I got ta be in the driver’s seat, yeah yeah I get it.
I get it.
I totally get that um November 17.
2006, though, you did win a unanimous, clear, unanimous decision over Belinda lyricuente for the vacant, GBU lightweight World title um, and then you also defended the GBU title and added the WBA lightweight title with a knockout win over.
I feel like at the time overrated Donna Biggers um in January of 2007, so you added two more titles to your resume um.
How do you feel about those fights and then adding even two more titles? Oh, that was amazing to add the WBA title, because you know, as you know, uh people tend to respect the main organizations, the main organizations more yeah.
I know what you mean, but you know honestly, where were they when the ifba and the wibf and and GBU were there backing to her, they weren’t willing to support us? They were willing to back up.
So I they wouldn’t let us fight for their vote as much or more um, but anyway the um.
It was great to add a big name belt, such as the WBA.
It was a great moment, um also Donna Biggers yeah.
She was 18 and three but smaller than me.
I feel like a little bit overrated too um Belinda, not that it wasn’t a good fight for you, I’m just it was a great fight for me.
I think it was I’m trying to remember.
There was an all-female card that I fought on in California that I fought um.
That was like my fourth Pro fight, but Chevelle was on that fight card.
That’S when I met Chevelle um Kelsey Jeffries was on it Elena Reed um was I on that show.
It’S very Blair, no, you weren’t at that one.
Okay, I was on an all-women show there in Lamar.
It was in Temecula, California, I think, like 2000 yeah somewhere around then I was in one in in Lemoore California, I think, or somewhere around there, okay um, but that Donna fought someone on that card.
I’M trying to remember who it was that she fought, but I think she got knocked out on that card too, and she was like 18-0 or 18 in one or I don’t know, but when I watched her fight personally, I just felt like she was overrated.
Yeah ahead of time yeah she had a good record and that’s about it, but um Belinda lyricuente was a great fighter.
Somebody I respected from the great fighter that she fought uh Christy Martin and I thought she should have got the decision at that time.
I watched it real close, but again she’s fighting on Christy’s show, so I know how it is but yeah I thought, Belinda fought a skilled fight there.
Yeah blind was yeah, definitely one of those top people.
We were talking about there’s so many.
It would be so hard when him with him doing that list to really get an accurate list.
I think especially he’s talking.
Well, I guess depends on how many he’s going down, but if you just did like top ten, that would be really really hard yeah.
You know what I was thinking of: Bonnie Canino.
She found a lot of good fights, you know yeah and that nobody was there.
I forgot about Bonnie.
How could I forget her? She was like headlining.
All these fights.
You know yeah Bonnie, uh, um, Kathy Kathy Collins was a kickboxer uh yeah there’s a lot of them.
I don’t know the list goes on and on yeah um, but I do believe you did contract and fought some 12 round fights, as well as some three minute round fights correct a lot.
Actually, we did three minute rounds exclusively exclusively in Nevada.
After the starting with the Belinda lyricuinte fight, we did 10 three minute rounds for the title fight that was a historical thing and and when we fought Donna Biggers, that was 12 three minute rounds that I got approved with the WBA, with the GPU and uh and With the Nevada State athletic Commission yeah in 2000 uh, when when I fought Belinda, I petitioned the commission to allow for women to fight through and it rounds to change their policy and allow for it and that’s what they did.
They did it like a waiver system.
If they both agree, they can fight three minute rounds, so the door is open, it is open and I feel like it still is.
It’S just got to be agreed upon on both sides and with all or more people have to push for it, but there’s also some powerful organizations against it and that’s what’s really holding it back and, and that will make it I won’t say impossible.
But it’s going to make it very, very difficult to allow three-minute rounds yeah well, okay, because people always ask this question now that we’ve had – and I always tell people um, I personally wouldn’t have signed a three-minute round contract unless the pay was equivalent for a three-minute Round fight, I hear you um yeah, but because we already got, we already got on so bad with our purses, exactly in our pay that we already weren’t even close to what we should have been making for me to give you that extra time.
That’S what I’m saying yeah, but now that, and I always tell people we could do it, no problem, every female that I know, there’s not one girl in this whole world that trains two minute rounds when they’re training.
We all train three minute rounds and I used to train 30 seconds yeah break instead of a minute in between.
So I said, we’ve all done it and we all normally when we’re in Camp or getting ready for a fight.
We spark 12 15 rounds right yeah.
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