AIR DATE:
EPISODE: Episode 1
Our group of panelists, including Tim Witherspoon, provide another weekly roundup of boxing headlines and an array of updates about upcoming bouts and boxers – and share current events and news with the many fans across the world that enjoy the great sport of Boxing!
Transcribed
Oh yeah, hello, there, boxing fans around the world – thank you for joining us once again here on talk and fight from the episode of the Friday night panel featuring myself and Lou Eisen uh renowned horse historian in the boxing world and, of course, a great uh host.
Here on talk and fight as well.
Thank you Lou for joining me appreciate it uh one of the things I just wanted to quickly cover off before we got started on on the panel.
I I something that we often neglect to say is just how Global a sport truly is, because I was just having a quick look.
While we were chatting before the uh episode got started.
I was just having a quick look at uh.
How many fights are going on around the world tonight alone? I just want to mention a few of these countries.
We got uh fights happening in in Argentina.
You know, we’ve got fights happening uh in in in obviously in the UK, the fight’s happening, probably every night.
In the UK, but you’re talking about fights happening in France, Argentina, uh, you’re, looking at uh Monterey down in South America, you’re looking in Tabasco and Mexico you’re looking at all these places around the world knocks my socks off because we rarely ever in Spain, um Bangkok, Uh, obviously, in America’s Fates going on uh – and this is just tonight – I’m talking about – and it kind of knocked my socks off, because we we rarely ever get to speak about the global nature of the sport.
We tend to speak specifically about events and or name Fighters, but we we rarely get to see uh Australia, their fights happening tonight, uh their fights happening in uh wow.
Look at this over in Brazil, like I’m, I’m and, of course, Canada.
I didn’t realize I didn’t realize we had fights in Canada yeah, but uh Josh, Wagner’s, taking on uh Williams, Herrera tonight and Mark Smith, has taken on uh, Jose yasso, so so that’s taking place in Barrington.
I think that’s uh! Oh, how was that fight name? Uh camera is the guy’s name that Tyler Buxton, sorry about that yeah – oh yeah, great guy yeah.
So so so I just want to point out just on a Friday night alone, you’ve got fights around the world, from Australia to Brazil and Argentina to Mexico.
Up here in Canada, uh and America and across Europe – and we rarely say it, but it’s truly a global Sport and uh.
You know young people, men and women are fighting to compete in all different uh divisions and uh.
You know we tend to always touch on.
Shall we say the famous or the well-known names uh or the well-known divisions, but not not so much uh? You know where these young people are fighting in or around uh, because the other day, just for example, Lou I was – I was mentioning the uh, the scene in India and a lot of comments came back, saying wow.
We didn’t realize that India had such a big boxing scene.
Well, a billion people go figure and uh.
You know just like soccer.
All he needs is soccer, ball uh, but just you know in boxing all he needs a pair of gloves and Away.
You go and sometimes not even yeah, I mean the heart and the courage, and not only do we rarely mention it cram, but I it’s great that you mentioned.
I love you for mentioning it, but it has to be mentioned all the time because it is a global sport.
It’S been a global sport, since I guess John O’Sullivan in the 1880s, but even before that – and the other thing is all the places you mentioned tonight – are packed with people they’re packed jam-packed with fans watching these Fighters cheering them on.
They have a vested interest in it.
A lot of them are local Fighters and – and the media doesn’t report this so when you call uh TV or radio stations or newspapers, they’ll, say well boxing’s dead, and I and I always say to them – you don’t have to believe people like you or me in Boxing believe in math, math, never lies and, and the math shows that when boxing goes in in a certain area, whether whether it’s India, whether it’s South America, Brazil, Argentina, England, France, Sweden, Thailand, China, Japan, which has a long history, it always Trends upwards.
It always does well and better with each show in each City.
Mma does well the first time into a market, and then it Trends downwards right and they don’t believe it.
And I say you don’t have to believe it.
What you believe you believe.
Look at the math there it’s packed, Tyler Buxton shows are packed.
England is the birthplace of the sport, it’s packed you and I have both seen photos of British soldiers in boxing matches in India.
From the 1880s I mean that’s 100, that’s almost 150 years ago, yeah.
So other than soccer or golf or Billiards, what other sport can say Trace its history back to 1700 and yeah? It is incredible.
Let me just interject.
On a personal note, I had some family uh who went over to the Philippines, and when they came back they said they were shocked.
They were going to, they would go into shopping malls and there would be a boxing match in the middle of a shopping, mall and surrounded by thousands of cheering people in a shopping.
Mall yeah, that’s how popular it is in the Philippines as a sport.
But that goes back to the early 1900s with Pancho Villa who was the world Flyway champion and before him they had other great fighters in the late 1890s 1900, but by the time Pancho Villa caught on, I guess Flyway in in the early 1900s, I’m guessing of 1915 1920 because they only lived to be 23 or 24.
He died from pyuria, he got blood poisoning from gum disease and he was a great fighter and he lived a fast life.
He fought Jimmy McLaren, but then you had flashed a lordy in the 40s and 50s and he beat something like 20 Hall of Famers and not not Split Decision.
He destroyed them and then of course, man in Pacquiao becomes a global phenomenon, so you’re right in the Philippines blockchain goes back.
If we look at the history of it goes back over 130 years yeah and so France, you know it was originally karate – was the big thing.
George carpanche was the one who really popularized it the light heavyweight, but you still, it still went back to the early 1900s late 1890s in France, so boxing can trace its history and all these places you mentioned to the 1800s in Canada, across Canada, uh from 1860.
On boxing was very popular: wow, hey Tim, hey Tim, hey, champ, hey, oh yeah, that’s Larry, Holmes choose what that is.
Chin just been trying to stay in shape.
That’S all is that the Tim Witherspoon endorsed glove on the talking fight show is that was out there.
The love that was throwing punches right.
Sorry did you say, love who you love in tonight.
I’M loving this glove, so Tim every every fighter.
I’Ve spoken.
Do they say that it boxing’s the loneliest sport, because you’re out there running those miles and training in the gym and you’re? Basically, on your own, except for your team, your trainer inspiring Partners, but when you’re out there running early in the morning when other people are sleeping, that’s you know, that’s what makes it extremely lonely.
I suppose.
Are you saying that boxers are lonely? Well, they say that boxing is the Loneliest sport when I’ve spoken to different boxers because you’re out there at four or five in the morning and you’re up and you’re running fine.
What motivated me was a team.
I mean you know I could do it.
I could do it by myself, but it’s kind of hard right to playing American football soccer baseball, a team thing, and so I’m more adapted to like uh a lot of people around pushing me and helping me uh and me helping them once I win so so.
Um some guys do it lonely they run uh and think I don’t know I don’t know.
I never did that, but I get more energy when, when people are with me and engaging and helping me and saying things to me, um and they’re, a part of it too they’re a part of the the fun and and whatever we we benefit from from the Team thing so, but there is guys they’re like that when I was boxers they want to run by themselves, and I don’t know I don’t know.
I have a question to ask you yeah uh Angela Dundee had a rule only one guy talks in the corner.
I can’t every weekend when I watch fights a guy sits in the corner after the round ends and there’s three guys yelling at him and angel said a fighter.
Can that can’t take in three voices, let alone one voice, one guy speaking calmly and not giving him hell an experience or experience guys they usually uh, say what who’s going to say? What at what time before you get in that before you go to the corner, I didn’t mean to cut you off, but um, usually everybody know their game once the head guys give all his stuff in uh, whoever the second guy, the second.
He throwing this little bit of motivation.
The cup man already jump in there and check you out if you, if he’s bruised, but the head guy gets the leadway and spoke speaking and motivating no, but that second is the one that that’s kind of like more motivating, because your second is like your brother.
Somebody you trust right, somebody you would, you know he’ll stab somebody for you or shoot somebody for you um and you got most most of the time you haven’t.
You had much all the time so um you know his word is good too.
So that’s powerful! When you just when you know you take turns telling the boxers what to do and everything’s organized when that bell ring to go out for that round, he’s ready.
But if there’s one guy this way, you you know the boxer, probably like well he’s doing this he’s doing that, I’m trying to get my breathing rate, I’m trying to drink the water, real, quick you got to give them, get their breathing together before you.
If you see a guy in the corner just giving the guy water as soon as you sit down, I’m kind of skeptical about that, what I do is I take my hand.
I put it down with her with her uh, because my trainer did it pulled.
It pulled it pulled it.
The uh Cup start the breathing, don’t give them no water.
You got 30 seconds.
You got 30 seconds to up for that Bell to raise 30 seconds right, it’s a minute between rounds but you’re right, but it I mean right before that and like he could he could drink the water anyway, I didn’t mean to cut you off, but he could Drink get his breathing right go, but you see everybody want to give the guy water first, he choking a little bit and then he struggling to breathe, get his breathing together.
First, don’t look pretty in front of the cameras, because you got that thing.
Wait until his breathing’s right and give him the water yeah Angela would pull the Trunks and and and the cup out he would say, give me three deep breaths give me one more deep breath and then he would say, because Angela was the rare guy Mo now.
You have a bunch of guys Angelo could do the cuts and do the water and be the strategist.
So Angela would say: okay, I have some water and he could put his hands on Ray’s, face and he’d say.
Listen to me when you know when he fought Hagler this guy’s a sucker for a faint he’s trying to sucker you into a bra because he called Ray a and all these things to get under his skin and Angelo said.
You know not here to fight him.
You’Re here to defeat him, and you defeat him by boxing him, you don’t want to fight his fight.
You don’t fight head on with Hagler.
You have to keep circling and keep turning him get in.
Let your hands go, get the hell out as quick as possible, and he was the only one talking like when when bundini wanted to say something of Muhammad, and so with this day, I’m this Chief.
Second, you keep your mouth shut and, and pandini was Muhammad peer leader.
He just knew nothing about boxing yeah.
He was motivated, but let me tell you that um and I hate to say it: Angelo Dundee was born only five minutes from where I was born and raised in South Philly um walking, walking, distance, um and um.
I did hear Muhammad Ali hollering.
Let me talk to good and the bad like really uh hollering at him, and I didn’t understand it before I got in the boxing game.
You know I thought Angelo was a top really good trainer and he’s a really nice person.
But somebody told me he never fought, but he was a good motivator Ollie used to uh like say stuff against him, because he didn’t really know a boxing and I’m just telling the truth.
I’M a young man going into Ali’s right.
Oh man, I’m a part of this stuff.
All I had to do is work hard and I’m with these guys and I’m listening to the stories they don’t know, I’m sitting in me another guy Aaron snowwell.
We sitting there watching them yeah, but Aaron.
You know what I mean: Aaron, like Panama, Lewis, who was who was a criminal? Who was it? You know who helped kill: Billy Collins, Luis Restaurant Angelo learned in the 40s, from Charlie Goldman and Ray arcel and other great trainers and from his brother Chris Dundee.
So Angelo knew, but when I spoke into quite a few writers, Jerry Eisenberg, who I’m sure you know Tim and other people excuse me they said they were they’re at training camps right Mohammed were looking at Angelo and say shut up, and I know that was bad.
I didn’t believe that I was like because me I love Angelo, he was cool, but Angelo’s also said he said with a guy like Muhammad.
Each fighter is a different person, so you can’t tell Muhammad do this do this and do that he said what I would say to him.
Is I love the way you’re pumping that jab and then throwing the right hand over top and then he would do it.
You couldn’t just say to him this, this not and, of course, in a relationship that close there’s, there’s always going to be friction, but you have to remember you know when, when Muhammad had his eyes burning, when listen had his mitts loaded, it was Angela who said Sit down and be quiet, the referee will stop it and kept washing his eyes out and said run just run run for around your eyes will clear.
So he was calm when, when, when Muhammad love was ripped before the Cooper fight, he showed it to to Angelo and Angela said, don’t tell the ref because we may need it later on.
So when Cooper knocks him down in the fourth round.
Angela has everyone circle around? He kicks his pinkies and he rips the glove open to get and it bought Muhammad yeah so and there’s always fights.
I mean Frazier fought with yank, Durham and Ray arcel, who was brilliant, had fights with his with his different Fighters.
Regular cell told me um when he had the welt away Champion kid Lewis.
He would say to him Ted, I’m sorry, but not only are you married, but the fact that you’re sleeping with a different girl every single night in training camp, I don’t think you’re going to win this fight.
No, he had to go to gangsters rare cell and say: can you help me here, can you get rid of these girls and make sure no one none of your hookers go with him, so he can actually concentrate on training and and it worked, but it was Quite common, you know, so I understand what you’re saying I mean Angelo was well respected and loved and I would sit he knew his fighting and a great traitor, but he he said to me Tim and you probably agree for this.
He said the only real experts in boxing are the fighters themselves.
He said you could sit there with a fighter like yourself.
No no! I don’t agree with that.
Okay, I I didn’t know nothing until slim.
Robinson came and taught me everything if that right it would be on the same.
I didn’t know nothing, but now I wouldn’t have made it that far.
If my trainer wasn’t intelligent and knew what to do, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t I would I’m serious.
I have to get my credit.
I’M like I wasn’t tough.
I was athlete.
I wasn’t a guy come off the like in the street.
You yeah you, I’m a I’m a bare knuckle.
No, I don’t want nothing to bring up, but this is organized with the gloves on and everything bing bing.
I could do that.
They got some real mean guys in the street, but um.
I learned I’m an athlete, that’s that you know that’s where that comes in it.
You know I’m an athlete and everything, and I witnessed Ali and uh Angelo they close relationship, uh, uh, um, true bundini, all them.
I had a privilege to be right.
There.
I’Ve seen him holler, I’ve seen them Ali hollered and he backed off.
He barely hollered that Houdini.
You know you barely hollered at him, but he did holler at Dundee one a couple of times and I didn’t understand it because I was young at that time.
I’Ve been young but then later on, I found out um and, and that was it Sharia Sharia he’s an African guy.
He was there, he respected him.
Oh sorry, yeah the guy from the trainer yeah yeah the thing he was the in the masseuse.
I know with Bundy yeah he was massive, but he was trying to portrayed like he was the trainer too.
He was in Cuba, but with with um bundini bundini was was like one of my sisters.
Super super sensitive player, yeah.
So Angela said he he he kept.
Muhammad light, he kept things funny.
He kept Muhammad in a good mood and he said for a fighter – that’s important.
Somebody commented here like about.
They want to know.
If, if you thought Evander Holyfield, would how would you fight him? How would you go about fighting yeah? All they’ll have to be is in phenomenal shape.
I have better skills than him.
He’S Relentless he’s, powerful um you’ve got to give it to him.
He deserved his championship.
He worked hard he’s in really good shape.
All I’ll have to do was be in good shape.
I’M a better boxer, but he’s Relentless.
He keeps coming because he’s in good shape.
He has faith in his condition and that that’s that’s what gives a lot of boxes? Faith, too, and and – and you know, they’re in good shape and that even the ones that don’t know how to play them being in shape.
Oh man, I can do it, but the uh the skills catch up with him later right.
You know what I’m saying they catch up with the name they get in there.
They do good and then then the skills you know the BAM after a couple of rounds or maybe earlier than that they get caught, wasn’t the most skilled guy, but he had more heart than anyone else.
He’S a good guy, too man yeah and a great guy yeah, absolutely something he was tough.
He could take a punch yeah, he could take a punch, he did something I was with Marvin Heather, Vita and the family say some names guys.
I was with him.
I didn’t think I was the one I didn’t never think up when I was going to play B playing football when I spoke that person on talk sports.
When I, when I spoke to Hadler about the anti-formal draw – and I said you beat him easily and you got screwed and ain’t confirm on this – and he said you have to understand – I’m not angry at veto, it’s nothing to do with him.
It’S the judges.
I’D like veto, I’m friends with him, it’s not a personal thing.
It’S business! This is my oldest hold on real, quick, the net, the net I’m doing the podcast.
I call you back.
Okay, yeah.
I have a quick question.
What’S up baby, my first born my grand Lanaya.
I just I just I just bring you up.
Okay, you know.
I love you right, yeah! That’S my uh uh! First Grand! Congratulations! She’S! I’M sorry, guys! No! No! Don’T apologize! For talking to your grandkids! I got 14 Grands and they check up on me every once in a while um.
What was your saying that end today? I I had a quick question because, based on you know from a Fan’s perspective, yeah uh, you, you fellas were talking about uh the corner.
So you know between rounds, you know we we watch, but we don’t really intently, listen, uh.
We watch and I’m kind of curious now as a fan uh what happens on a round by round basis, so in the early rounds, you’ve probably got motivational speaking as opposed to uh therapists.
Speaking to you, if you know what I mean, whereas in the later rounds you might have the reverse, whereas the motivational is gone by the wayside now you’re in survival mode.
So I’m just kind of curious whether the the men you have in the corner with you for women these days uh whether their roles change as the as the as the rounds, progress uh you know is is is is, is the first guy truly the first guy At the end of the at the end of the fight, or is it more you’re in survival mode and you’re? Listening to the guy saying you got ta do this, you got ta! Do that, if you want to win this fight, you got to do this real quick.
It could be an up and down thing where oh, this guy got the better of your dish round.
Then you try to capitalize on it and try to motivate him to win the next round and then you might win the next two rounds and get a lot more motivation than you and head and you start pushing forward.
Then you might have a bad round.
The guy might be coming back up on you, um it’s a back and forth thing and the guy that’s in your corner has to you know how to shift.
You know say exactly what, when you’re down you got to push you up when you, when you’re up you got to keep you motivated if this is what we’re talking about so as the rounds go on um, you know.
If you take the lead in the first round and keep on building it up, then um, all you need is a little confidence and say come on.
We got this, let’s keep going, but if you’re behind it’s hard, it’s not hard, but you just got to keep on from practice.
You’Ll know exactly what to say: you’re from practicing right in this corner and being in the in this corner, telling them hey.
Man come on tell them maybe his mom, it’s mine, love them.
You got to think of things to motivate this kid.
Oh this.
You know this girl gon na marry.
You you better.
You know things like that if we on the Run same track, if we’re on the same track stuff like that, you got ta know how to motivate them once you see them down, you got to push them up, but if he’s not down, he’s still got to Motivate him to keep keep keep us, keep it there or more.
You know Tim.
I have a story for you when, When Willy pastrano delayed heavyweight champ one another one of angels Fighters he’s fighting in England against Terry Downes, I know them Terry Downs.
I was with him I think, yeah British fighter and after the third or fourth round he comes back to his corner and Angela says to Willie.
He says uh boy, that Terry Downes is a good guy and he said yeah.
He is he’s a good fighter, but he’s starting to fight.
He said, but he’s a real night he’s a gentleman and he said I like him and Angela said no.
No, no, no! I like him, you love him.
What do you think? I’M gay or something – and he said no, no, you must love him Willie because you’re giving him your Championship, your house, your wife, your future earnings and Willie starts swearing, an angel.
He goes don’t get angry at me.
Get angry at him.
He’S the one! That’S taking your title and Willie goes out and knocks him out, but then you also have the other.
The flip side of that, which is when Michael Moore, fought, George Foreman after the first second round Teddy Atlas, says to Michael Murray, says: listen, he’s not trying to hit you with his left.
It’S a sucker! He wants to move you over to your left, so you get right in front of his right hand, he’s trying to move you over, don’t go for it and and Michael said: no, no, it doesn’t matter, I’m going to knock him out and Atlas grabs uh.
His face Michael Moore’s face and he needed Michael Moore, always had a confidence problem, but he said you’re not listening.
I’M begging you to listen.
There’S no! Tomorrow, don’t move to your left.
That’S what he wants you to do, jab him Whack Him get out.
He goes.
I’M gon na knock him out and Teddy Atlas said: you’re not going to knock George Foreman out a tank is not gon na knock him out.
Okay, you’re gon na beat him on point, hit him and run and Moore wouldn’t do it and Foreman said after the fight.
That’S what I intended to do.
I didn’t care.
If I landed my left, he kept moving over just a bit until he was right in line with my right hand and then, and then that was it and Michael nun fought James, Tony and Angelo said to Michael Nunn, he’s sucking you into a left hook.
Every time he takes a step back, you follow, he tagged it with the left.
Don’T take the step forward when he does it and none never listened and got knocked out in the 11th round because of it.
Okay, trainers can see that, but sometimes I asked buddy mcgirtus and he said: listen, sometimes guys, just don’t listen.
What are you gon na? Do you can’t jump in the ring and fight it for them? You know they.
They think I’m in the ring – and I have a better feel for this yeah though practices for and they have to have confidence in you if Buddy said that, then the boxer, probably his confidence level, was a little low.
If you know what I’m saying, because yeah, if you believe in the trainer you’ll listen to him, you’ll, listen to him, you won’t have that conflict.
So maybe maybe nobody mcgurt got a good name yeah.
He did.
He achieves a lot of stuff.
Maybe there’s some doubts and certain things that he do, or else he shouldn’t get that feedback.
I’M talking about the boxer shouldn’t say stuff like that or react like that right.
Let’S ask a couple of uh questions of Tim before we jump into this weekend’s uh boats, especially the ones that are happening tomorrow.
Night uh uh, one of one of our good fans of Dari pennant, has asked uh whether Tim Tim Witherspoon would actually have fought.
Uh Lennox Lewis, back in the day, and if so, how do you think it would have gone Tim, okay? We I was offered to fight we we date the fight was supposed to go on um, but but they turned it down.
Lennox didn’t turn it down, but they did then would have fought me any day of the week any day of the year.
This is what happened they turned me down.
I was hot, then I was in good shape.
I had a couple of good fights.
I knew it was a was in Holyfield shade.
I would walk through the whole neighborhood.
I walked through and become champ.
If I was in condition or strong, like those guys, I was I I delivered my punch, good and everything, and nowhere to land on here to get you out of here.
Instead of just throwing anywhere anywhere, I was taught to throw it on places where you know you could hurt them, then you can finish them off once you get them hurt you finish them off so um, you know so so the Lennox Lewis fight they turned it Down and I was like whoa cause – I wasn’t in shape, they turned it down, but Linux didn’t turn it down.
It was, it was, it was the management and stuff Lennox would fight me any day of the week anytime same thing with Tyson.
I was motivated when when they turned me down – and they did it because of this – because this the talk was, it was the skills right and I was like well, they turned me down Mike ain’t gon na change, Michael get in there.
You wake him up.
Nine o’clock this morning, he’ll fight me like five minutes after that, and a couple of other people turned me down and I was like: oh they don’t know, I’m out of shape.
They don’t know, then I’m not yeah mentally.
I’M not really getting paid right.
You know I got 90 000 and my pony got a million four and I’m the champ right, I’m messed up, you know so they could have just walked, they could have beat me and I remember it was like Lennox Lewis.
I remember the Tyson fade um.
I.
What Michael Moore, I think too, I think too, and Holyfield Holyfield they said, had a if something was wrong with his heart, so we couldn’t fight.
So I was like Wow Holyfield got a hard heart.
They said it was a hard heart, they call it and we was going to fight.
He wouldn’t fight me any day.
He’S a warrior yeah.
He would fight me yeah.
How are you all right? Everything good? I lost about 20 25 pounds.
I’M I mean I reached the 30s now you’re getting to that point where you’re feeling good about you see my face.
Yeah like you know, you can do you’re like um, I’m not trying to do that, but I will I will get in an exhibition um.
I do believe that if I was to fight like somebody like top guy out there and get in good shape, I probably only would do it one time because of my age and and the in the in the in the in the in the engagement will probably Take a lot out of me: um I possibly could do, can make the proper movement and knock some of them young guys out.
Don’T that keep their hands down and when they cry like this, they don’t have the skills I’ll take my time and hit them right and probably get them out there.
But I just have to work hard.
If I was to do that, but right now, I’m 65 and um, what more can you prove? No, I know I know, but I really wasn’t in top money money money money.
No, that’s not! That’S not my love.
I could use it.
I could use it.
Look if an exhibition come I’m ready, I’m ready if they say Tim, they call me up.
This is this.
Is Friday if they say Tim, we have a fight on Monday, I’m ready if they say tomorrow.
I just came.
I took off today because all week I was hit, I was hitting a hammer doing the big roots, not no small, skinny ones, big roots, and I was going three minutes five times with the big Rose and then the hammer broke.
So now I had to use a little one, so I went to my son’s gym.
He got a little bit heavier Jim.
We had a heavy Hammer at Johannes, gym man.
I was killing, so I was doing five rounds on the um groups.
Five rounds on the hammer and then I ran 30 minutes on the treadmill.
My weight came down um and everything um.
I hit the heavy bag, but I didn’t do no sparring, I’m too old, I’m old.
Now I don’t want to get hit.
If someone imagine what would happen if you fought Michael Dougs Stokes was static in the ring, though right, you know real quick.
You know what I love Mike reusing Camp all the time together he had his own cabin brand new.
They gave him everything, but all I would have to do was hit him on his chin.
That’S all he’s a fast, quick boxer.
I don’t see no defense he’s depending on speed, you know and that one I would have loved to fight.
I would have loved to fight him, hey Tim yeah.
I want to say thanks a lot for having me out here at talkingfight.
com with you every Friday, I’m really enjoying myself and Lou yeah.
Thank you so much uh you’re, like the professor or something I call you now you’re so you’re so awesome.
I really love having you here, you’re, like a plethora of information and you’re one of the best ever and I want to thank you for coming out.
I appreciate you thank you, of course, grumpy, Graham of course, but you know I’ve been watching a couple of fights this week.
You know uh, older ones, right and and um.
This is basically directed towards a Lou and yourself Tim uh.
I was, I was looking at Riddick bolt all right now that guy, as we all know, but he had that trilogy against Holyfield.
As you know, and there was some big time uh you know rounds, those guys went in those fights, the the three of them right.
Obviously, uh Rayden took the that title and then the first one they had the rematch Evander took it back and it just it just seemed like a really.
What were you thinking at that time? Because I don’t even know it was ridic Ballin, you’re uh on the radar with you or anything because we were supposed to like I said, and they they said that um.
He had a condition called something like hard heart and his heart wasn’t wasn’t Bree what and number two was or was it three that that he had the heart issues, so I don’t understand all right.
You yeah, I think I think, with with Evander.
I think it was misdiagnosed because it was it it.
The original cardiologist said he had a hard.
He had a heart, murmur and then or or heart heart and and then a year or two later he said, he’d healed himself through faith which isn’t scientifically possible and the other cardiologist said it was just misdiagnosed, okay and he he um a bow, is on everyone’s Radar – I I guess, since the Olympics, when Lennox stopped them and Bo, I mean where the ball was a a really good fighter, but and he had Eddie fudge, one of the greatest trainers ever to have lived, but he he had a problem with with uh with Discipline – and you know he he didn’t he was he had you know for a fighter to win, you have to be disciplined, focused and staying in shape and and concentrating and – and there were a lot of things going on in his life also he was having marital Problems and that just doesn’t help anyone, especially professional athletes, especially a boxer.
You know so uh Beau was supposed to fight Lennox and that never happened.
I think more because Bo didn’t like the WBC, which I don’t blame him, but um uh, yeah, the fights of Holly filled.
All three were great uh.
They became good friends um.
It’S funny Holly Phil kept saying to Beau you’re a dirty fighter, but actually it’s all Holyfield who used his head a lot in his elbows and his shoulders on everything.
That’S what I heard.
That’S what I heard so when you watch him fight Tyson.
Oh he’s waiting on you because of his size, he’d lean on you, mother Vander, but eventually pretty good Amanda was skinny.
Amanda was late.
He just was powerful.
That’S all yeah ready to put lean on the guy, but you’re supposed to lean on you.
Yeah yeah he’s six five.
Two fifty I mean Linux was six five to sixty, so they’re deliberately leaning on you to wear you down, but but uh uh.
You know a Holyfield when he fought.
I I don’t think Tyson should have bit him, but Tyson had a good point.
He said I’m being head-butted by this guy.
The guy’s head-butting me he’s elbowing me he’s stomping on my feet, he’s hitting me with his forearms and you’re, not doing anything and the referees.
Just like continue fighting, there was no warning.
There was no Mills.
Lane was a great ref, but I mean that’s.
Holly Phil was great.
If you ever, if you ever see an interview with radar cell or Angela Dundee or any of the old trainers, they showed you how you could get away with all those fouls.
It’S there’s a real art to it, and and Evander was good at that.
You know so those were those were three great fights between three great two great guys and the only one I think it was the second or third fight was marred by the fan man who came in from the sky.
The guy landed in the ring in the fan, and then they had the big brawl in the crowd and all that jazz and it was like yeah you shouldn’t have to Elbow, but that was good for Evander.
He actually got better after that crazy incident because he got some strength or something because um, I’m saying you shouldn’t, have the elbow and sneak in dirty punches.
If you were a true champion stuff like that or you know I don’t know, I never was taught to do dirty stuff.
I was taught to do just regular, Bots and stuff.
I was never taught to do anything dirty they put your elbow here or that or something like that, and it’s kind of crazy for somebody to teach him that um he was head button.
Maybe he learned to do that on his own.
It worked made me.
Did it, and and maybe – but I know he does head, but my brother Anthony um uh was his sparring partner was inspiring.
A couple of my sparring.
Partners was over there with uh with uh Vander Holyfield, and I used to hear a lot of uh stuff what they do down there, the way they trained and stuff like that um, but the the bottom line.
He did fight a little dirty uh with his head and I heard a lot of complaints and when even his farm Partners was saying that that he was kind of he get kind of dirty.
But if you finesse good and and you you won’t need that you want me to have to rough somebody, but give him an elbow, that’s one of those guys that really ain’t got no skills, but they’ll come at you.
They want to Elbow you or headbutt you.
I don’t need to do that I’ll, use my skills and make it look pretty on that level.
Let me just interrupt for a brief moment here: um John Fury, Tyson Fury’s father, came out this week and because of the shenanigans going on quite frankly in the heavyweight division, had a few comments to make about Deontay Wilder and one of the things he said, which Is something that I’ve been saying for a while? Is that after that, last Tyson Fury fight? I thought that Deontay Wilder had been concussed in that and was really susceptible to a serious brain injury.
If he fought again to which you know Deontay Wilder said no he’s ready to come back in the ring and obviously he’s going to.
But the point matter is: is John Fury came out just this week and said no Tyson Fury, actually, cracked, his skull and and now whether that was confirmed by the medical people over in uh? Well, wherever the third fight was fought.
I can’t remember, but the point matter is: is I’ve said this for a long time that Deontay Wilder is seriously at risk if he enters the ring again, and I was really surprised to see John Fury come out this week and say yeah absolutely his skull was Cracked, I don’t think is proof is proof I I agree.
I agree with that.
100.
I I want to tell you why I’ll make it quick uh this week on my sub stack, I posted it on Once Upon a Time in the prize ring, I posted an article on Jeanette zacarius Zapata, the Mexican girl, who was 18, who died in the Box.
Hearing of Montreal a couple years ago and and and uh they did a study.
A Montreal neurologist neurosurgeon dealing with the brain did a study and he said um UFC MMA has more overall injuries than any other combat sport or any other sport.
But boxing has more brain injuries and he said the problem with something like a Deontay Wilder is they’ll say we gave him an MRI and they’ll gave him a CAT scan, and this doctor in Montreal said that’s all Bs, Because unless the the stuff you get in An actual Clinic when you walk into your doctor’s office, he says not what you’re going to get from a surgical Doctor Who has who, who will give you a deeper MRI and which will be able to see lesions on your brain or brain bleeds? He said you have to see a neurosurgeon in a person-to-person visit, so we can assess neurologically how much your brain has been hurt and he said the proof is this.
He said in in the last 40 years in Prof professional boxing out of every four boxers that have had been knocked out and been cleared eight months to 12 months, a year later to fight.
He said he looked at all their CAT scans and their MRIs, and he said at least 25 to 45 percent still had a concussion, even though the clinical neurosurgeon said they’re fine and he said I’m an I’m, a surgical, neurosurgeon they’re, not fine.
They still have a concussion and he said Bob the problem with something like Deontay Wilder and and what deante Wilder’s team is saying, is that they’re basing it on data that’s 40 to 50 years old and outdated.
Recent data shows that a boxer like Deontay can get knocked out like that and receive permanent brain damage and shouldn’t be fighting again and people that say otherwise.
They’Re wrong and – and I agree with you Graham and I agree with John Fury – he received a lot of damage in that fight.
I don’t think he should be fighting again hey and you know what the the percentage of of him really getting hit is in.
You know the percentage of him not getting hit would have been um lower is he would have somebody to teach him defense now we can go all the way back to the beginning of where all this stuff uh starts, where you’re learning, how to fight and everything And I emphasize on that, because I mean I mean I got a good defense and um.
I kept my hands up and everything, but he wouldn’t got hit with those shots if he would have had the right person in this corner.
I’M sorry to keep saying it on different shows.
If you learn how to do like this blob and stuff like that and slip, he don’t know.
He just do like this come in like that and that’s how you’re right you’re right, he wouldn’t be in this situation.
Lennox tried to train him, but he gave up after a while.
I don’t want to talk about it, but he’s not a he’s, not a good uh uh, a defensive trainer, because he big he’s strong.
If you look at his movement and if I’m not trying to be a hater, but then it was big and strong and he hit you and he hurt you, but in terms of Defense you don’t see him putting up defense, you don’t see him doing this.
You’Re.
Just saying maybe like this, but there’s other things you do with defensive encounter also so so um I’m not down on them.
I didn’t even know that he he made it.
It was the name.
It’S the name that that um, that that that that that got him towards uh uh Dante, Wilder right.
It was Dante, Wilder well Deontay, reached out so Linux I mean it.
Wasn’T official Lennox just spent some time with him and showed him.
This is how you disguise him.
I remember I remember that okay, but he didn’t spend a lot of time with him.
Deontay had his own had his own people, but people just won’t the one thing about boxing that most people, fans as Ali said, are bloodthirsty, won’t accept that a fight or a career can end with one punch and, and the fan will say, wait a minute.
I paid hundreds of dollars.
How can this be the title fight and it’s over and around? Well, what do you want us to do the guy’s unconscious, but it happens and and the Brain isn’t meant to take that.
But what Tim said – and this is what the neurologist just said, what exactly what you said Tim he said: Fighters that are properly balanced can Defuse The Power of a punch to their head through their legs and if their defensive minded enough and they’re skilled, like you And can slip and that they can last longer in their boxing careers, but most boxers, don’t so a couple weeks ago, nowadays, right Adam kanaski, this just lost four in a row and retired he was fighting a guy and he got he got.
He kept taking punches in the head Sugar Hill who who’s? Who was with the Emmanuel, who I really like he’s a great guy and he said he’s not he’s, never fought.
It’S a shame, but a lot of the trainers never fought, except for Charlie Goldman and what happens is a guy like a guy like Sugar Hill said to him after the first round Adam, you can’t stand there and take punches like that.
You can’t stand in front of him and he did and he got his head taken off.
Listen you have to direct the the boxer um a different way than that.
Instead of just you got to tell him what he has to do.
You have to put your hand here, you have to keep it deep inside.
You actually tell him stuff Sugar Hill didn’t know he just had.
He just gave him some kind of hope and and words.
He didn’t actually tell him to keep his hands here or keep his thing there or counter over stuff and there’s a lot of trainers in the corners.
They’Ll know how to motivate you with certain language and words by not directly telling you what to do put your hand here: uh cross catch it and cross over.
You don’t see a lot of that in the corner.
Yeah keep your hands.
You know give him a fake and turn that their left hook on them, but when you do that make sure you come right back to defense, saying that.
Well, what fascinates me more than any other person in the sport is Jack Blackburn.
He trained Joe Lewis.
He created the perfect boxing machine.
Joe Lewis had perfect balance.
He had great defense, but Blackburn was one of the best lightweights, if not the best lightweight, on Earth in the early 1900s, but because of the color of her skin.
He wouldn’t he couldn’t get a fight with the world champion, so he gets he trained Jersey, Joe Walcott, for a short time.
He gets Joe Lewis and he got in the ring with Lewis and and he showed him.
This is what you do when a guy backs.
You into the corner and he wants to throw the right.
You slip.
It hook your arm and his arm spin him whack him and he he he got in a ring with Lewis when grab his legs and say.
Put your left foot here.
Put your right foot here: this is what happens and he’d.
I throw this and you got to block that.
But at the same time you know you block it.
You should be able to counter me and what happens if I hit you with the other hand, and he went through every situation and he said to Louis.
This has to be as familiar to you as breathing.
So when a guy’s in a ring you’re, not thinking of reacting you’re just reacting and it was Blackburn who was one of the all-time great fighters who never gets the credit he deserves for being an absolute genius.
Um turn Lewis and he said, Lewis is going to be a world champion, not because he’s so strong, but because he has Superior defense.
He was the greatest puncher that ever lived going back 300 years.
No, you know what I don’t I don’t when I go online.
I don’t comment on these 20 year olds, who say the 10 greatest punchers ever or the greatest fighter.
Ever they never knew Joe Lewis, no one on Earth ever to punch with the power of Joe Lewis.
He could take it.
Not even Jewish woman.
Foreman was a great puncher heavy clubbing, puncher and Tyson could punch, but Joe Lewis, I mean Joe Lewis knocked guys out with Jabs he’d knock eight or ten teeth out wow.
You know he hit.
He hit.
Braddock broke his cheekbone hairline fracture of the jaw.
One punch knocked him out cold.
I mean Braddock didn’t wake up for half an hour Lewis hit guys that he had a fighter named Nathan Mann, so hard man hit the canvas bounce back kiss the refereed Arthur Donovan on the face and asked him out for a drink.
That’S all – and I mean Lewis was a demolition machine.
Guys Angelo told me guys, would literally crap their pants and have to be cleaned up.
That’S how terrified they were of Joe Lewis, let’s let’s uh, let’s, let’s quickly towards the end of the show, have a quick little discussion about the uh, the welterweights uh, because we’ve got we’ve got uh boots on us uh competing this weekend.
We got Ortiz uh competing this weekend, uh and that, of course leads up to the Spence Crawford fight now whether they stay in the same division or not, but anyway, I just wanted to have your thoughts on.
Maybe Neil you haven’t said so so much do you have any thoughts on this weekend’s welterweight bouts that are going on yeah thanks a lot Graham yeah.
Absolutely the the boats this weekend are fantastic.
We’Re uh we’re all looking forward to it.
I hope I’m looking forward to it.
That’S for sure I really like the way uh Virgil Ortiz has come around uh since a few years ago I talked to him uh on my show like about him and stuff, and I was looking at him one of my prospects coming up, uh him and Taya.
Firmo or like you know, if you look at my stuff years ago, I thought these guys had a good shot.
You know to get get in position and become world champions and and Ortiz’s and Ortiz is not disappointed.
All the way up the ladder I mean he’s.
What the Graham 19-0 19 Knockouts he’s, undefeated yeah he’s, actually fighting guys that are, you know, they’re, not just average guys.
I think the guy is fighting is undefeated as well.
That’S correct, yeah he’s undefeated as well, so I mean he’s not docking guys like he’s not running and docking or anything he actually wants to get in there, and actually, you know, show him what he’s got, which is what I looking forward to the fight uh, both Guys, you know, I hope they have a great it’s going to be a really good fight.
Graham, in my opinion, they can both.
They both have not go power uh.
They both have excellent footwork speed this that you know, so it should be pretty good.
I’M really looking forward to it and the other one we’re gon na be watching for sure is uh is Boots.
Ennis right, yeah, I’m gon na look forward to seeing that place.
Yeah Anderson Villa yeah – and this is a great fighter – he’s got everything.
He’S got great.
Footwork great hand, speed yeah one of his recent fights.
He was a bit off, but he’s he’s brilliant.
So the fact that he wasn’t a perfect 10.
He was a 9.
9, so uh he’s still he’s still a privileged.
It’S like Tim in his prime still a privilege to watch someone.
Do it making in an art form.
Did you hear what he was saying this week about the uh Crawford uh, the Crawford fight? No, what he said did you hear what he was saying Luke? No, he said it’s a 50 50 in his mind because, as Tim said, neither of them got any defense and that’s what he said.
That’S what government said.
He said that 50 50.
that’s his opinion, because neither of them have any that lucky punch or something.
I guess I don’t know, but he says I’m saying that about a lot of boxers and the server like back in the day, all the old trainers had they telling you to put your hands up.
You know not all defense, so all right and Tim to what you were saying, you know you knew and no a lot of trainers over the years turn guys away.
They’Re saying sorry, you don’t have defense or you can punch, but you know you, you just stop there.
I don’t want you to get hurt, well, the only reason why they were turning them away.
If they don’t know that I’ve never heard heard too much of that.
If they can’t teach them, they can’t teach.
Now I’ve seen I’ve seen uh Ennis um engage with this with this individual and I said well, we’re gon na have to tighten his defense up a lot or learn just just a little bit more.
That’S add-on.
Now he’s 100 like sharp and everything and keep his did a certain way, but then I’ve seen this one time I said: wait a minute.
He might need a little tightening up, don’t relax too much uh uh right, don’t relax too much be the same way.
All the time, if you know what I’m talking about and relax a little bit and I seen him get caught, I seen the record – and I said oh in the future – that might be a problem so um, but he was doing everything else.
Good everything else good and then everything I put that pressure on him.
I said: oh, I kind of felt a little offshore.
Oh you better! Tighten that one up, I said, and he did it a couple of times he hit uh Ennis a couple of times and was successful and I was like he might have to uh tighten it up because he might get hit solid.
Who was that fighter out of New York, Chris Cordell or Corden, or he used to come in with the red and blue and green hair? And he fought man? No I’m Grand man.
What are you saying? I fought him no well, but but you went on to get knocked out out by Tank Davis, Chris Cordell or whatever fought this Mexican guy who got knocked out by Tank Davis, but the Mexican guy was beating up Chris.
I can’t remember his name – uh, Gordon or or or or um um, uh African-American fighter, but different color, hair and very flashy, but he had no defense and and now Bernstein kept saying unless he can stop.
This guy’s punches with something other than his face.
He’S not gon na win, you know, and he didn’t I mean he lost by a lot.
He I think he may have been stopped, even because he just he and he didn’t have any excuses.
He said I lost because I fought terribly you know, but he but like you’re, saying about defense, a fighter without a defense is is like a fatality.
Waiting to happen to happen is a good thing to say, because yeah right, um they’re doing really well, they doing really good offense and then, when they get to that right one.
Then the exposure come.
But there is boxers that made it without defense, but they paid the price.
You can’t really understand what they’re talking about when you know when they’re walking down the street you talk to them and – and you know you could tell that it was some damage being done.
But there’s a Dodge out there, winning the title: they’re good offense.
I know a couple of them Colbert that was his name Chris Colbert October yeah, okay, yeah.
Okay, there there are a couple of uh bonus battles on the uh Ortiz stanionis card by the way uh.
Let me point out that uh Marlon, Esparza and gabrielli Alanis are going to fight for the WBA WBC and WBO Women’s World flyweight title and someone who we’ve mentioned on talk and fight a lot.
Floyd Schofield is going up against Haskell road to the lightweight division.
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