AIR DATE:
EPISODE: Episode 1
Join me as I sit down with the Jackie Kallen known as The First Lady of boxing! She is the first and most successful female manager in boxing history! She has managed many male & female fighters to date. She also had a movie made based on her life experiences called Against the Ropes, she was also a consultant for the reality show The Contender. To add to her list of accomplishments she has also written 2 books, Hit Me With Your Best Shot & Between The Ropes! You don’t want to miss it! Tune in tonight at 8:30pm EST Live!
#womansboxing #femaleboxing #boxingmanager #boxing #womaninboxing @talkinfight @jackiekallen @brooke”nomercy”dierdorff-millbrook @nopunchespulledwithnomercy
Transcribed
[, Music, ], foreign, [, Music, ], hey y’all, it’s your girl, no mercy here.
It is Tuesday night.
So you already know what time it is it’s time for no punches pulled with no mercy.
Some of you probably already know who I am those of you that are new and don’t my name is Brooke Millbrook.
I am the host.
I am Formerly Known in the fight business as Brooke no mercy deardorff.
I am a retired professional boxer.
I held the WBC lightweight title until I retired, and I was recently inducted into the international women’s Boxing Hall of Fame in 2022.
um.
I have definitely been through some good some bad and, of course, a lot of BS in the sport is women’s boxing.
Welcome to my platform, where we talk the talk and we walk the walk, we will bring out the truth in women’s boxing.
You will hear from the pioneers of the sport past boxers current boxers, even future female boxers.
We will be getting down and dirty and speaking the truth of what takes place in women’s boxings behind the scenes you won’t want to miss a single show so make sure that you like subscribe and share.
You definitely don’t want to miss any Tuesday night here.
Today’S special guest, if you haven’t seen it already, is the one and only Jackie, Callan Jackie, is known to many.
As the first lady of boxing, she was the very first and still considered by many as the most successful female manager in the history of boxing.
She was a journalist turned boxing manager.
Her inspiring life story led to a movie about her life, called against the ropes starring, Meg, Ryan, Omar Epps and many other famous actors still well known today.
She has also worked as a consultant for Mark Burnett’s reality.
Tv series called the contender – let’s also not forget, she’s a notable author of Hit Me With Your Best Shot and between the ropes she is well-known public speaker also.
Please help me welcome to the show my friend, Jackie Callan, Jackie.
How are you dear I’m wonderful, our pants cross, again girl? We do pass again once again: it’s always an honor and a pleasure to speak with you and I haven’t seen you in in decades, but it feels like, but it’s great to talk to you again in person.
It’S been that long.
Well, not that long, but I mean to me it feels like ages ago, I probably 2007 or something like that.
Was it yes, like 2007, I want to say yeah, but I mean it’s been a minute.
It’S been a minute, have you well, you look the same.
I look the same yeah I I hope.
You’Re the same.
I hope I’m aging well you’re aging Beauty.
That’S all! That’S all we can hope for.
Yes, exactly exactly.
I got a few gray hairs.
We cover up, but you know that’s, okay.
We all do.
It’S all part of the AG process – oh yeah, but it’s better to be here and the Aging that not be here at all.
I am fine with that um.
So, first um, I don’t know that anybody has ever really asked you this, but I do want to take it back to the beginning of Jackie Callan.
Can you just walk us through briefly, like your childhood upbringing, like what made Jackie Jackie? Well, I was pretty average kid.
You know, people that everybody starts out as whatever they end up, and I certainly didn’t you know I.
I was one of those kids that wanted to do everything.
I wanted to sing and dance play sports, but I was pretty bad at all of it, so it took me a while to find my groove.
You know I was about nine or ten and my mom put me in a creative writing class and I found my calling I could write so I became a journalist.
I wrote for my school paper.
I wrote for local weekly papers, anybody that would take one of my articles.
I would be happy to write for them and I started winning writing Awards and winning different contests that I entered.
So I realized that was.
That was my thing.
I was a journalist.
I was a writer, I was actually a photojournalist because I started taking pictures along the way with my articles and back in that time.
It was unusual to see somebody my running back backstage and interviewing The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and all these iconic people.
But I was very persistent and I was very I like to think I was professional for my age, so I was able to gain access and I built a beautiful portfolio of Articles and then when I was 19, I moved to New York City with this portfolio Of Articles and landed a job there, so journalism was where I was headed boxing, wasn’t even a blip on my radar right.
I wanted to be Barbara Walters.
You know that that was my goal to be.
You know a journalist and hopefully end up on TV and uh the best laid plans.
You know get pushed aside when something else comes along and boxing was the thing that kind of came along.
Yes, yes, um, so yeah started out Rolling Stones, Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley.
So many more amazing amazing people um, so you definitely started off young very well um.
I think it was in 1977.
I think was when you received the assignment to interview the great Thomas Hitman Hearns right.
It was actually 78.
.
You turned Pro the end of 77.
and I got sent in 78 to do an article on this young four-round fighter here in Detroit, and I had been an entertainment writer.
Like you mentioned, I interviewed celebrities, actors, singers um a lot of different uh, a variety of athletes.
You know the the superstars of the various Sports, the Michael Jordan’s and the Magic Johnson’s people like that and politicians.
I interviewed presidents vice presidents, people like that they were short on Sports writers in the mid 70s and they recruited me to go down to the Tigers, game Detroit Tigers and interview a young pitchers, and that led me to find sports as another topic that I really Enjoying about and uh and then in 78, they said well, there’s a young skinny tall kid coming out of Detroit he’s, knocking everyone out, he’s very impressive.
I’M going to send you down there to do an article and I went boxing.
That’S so brutal! I don’t know.
I don’t know if I’m going to want to go, but I took a girlfriend and we went down there and that was it.
I fell in love with the sport.
I never thought I would, but there was something really poetic about the movements and I was so taken by the dichotomy of personalities.
How soft-spoken quiet men like Tommy Hearns, could get in those ropes and become this crazed.
Man looking to kill his opponent, then come back out of the ropes afterwards and be so soft-spoken.
I went.
How do you? How do you do that? Where is that switch that goes on and off? So I started writing about other boxers as well, and working with Jerry, Cooney and other Fighters doing PR, and that was it.
It was just a one-way number turned back yeah, absolutely um, I mean, and it was so amazing that you I mean you worked with him from the very beginning and got to watch him become five-time world champion and like girls, and you know from the very beginning You could just see his greatness.
He was just I mean an amazing boxer puncher and to be on that jerk from the first Leonard fight, the Hagler fight, which was an amazing three rounds of boxing.
The second one would fight that knockout of Duran, his knockout of Pepino Cuevas in 1980, which is when he won the title initially and to be a part of that era in the 80s, when the best fought the best.
We don’t really have that right now, yes, but it was.
It was the Golden Era of boxing, and I was just so honored to be there for it to be a part of it, to witness it and to learn the sport from somebody as knowledgeable as Emmanuel Stewart who was an incredible, unbelievable trainer.
Yes – and he taught me everything how to work Corners, how to stop cuts um, how to pick the right opponents for your fighter at the right time.
He was an amazing mentor, and so that was my college education.
If you would in boxing – and I had the greatest professor of all times, yeah the the man, the man of the hour, the man that knows absolutely everything he used to know that was incredible – couldn’t have had a better teacher, that’s for sure no um, Michael Orr.
I’M reading the comments over here is chiming in.
Thank you, Michael.
I’M glad you’re looking forward to Today’s Show, and yes, Jackie, is a true Pioneer in the female boxing he’s very excited to hear your story very sweet.
Thank you.
Yes, Michael, was the one that popped in with us briefly before we went, live very sweet um.
Well, you know I I, when I got into the sport initially there were no other women.
I had no one.
I could really talk to or ask about certain situations.
Like what happens when you go in the locker room and they pull their towels off or what happens when somebody comes on to you or what happens when you’re told that if you want your fighter to have a spot on a card, you have to do something That isn’t in your even imagination, to do right, so I didn’t really have anybody.
I just had to kind of find my way through the sport and – and I did and um – and I still love it, and here we are, you know going up 45 years later.
I was this young girl in her early 30s when I started now, I’m a senior citizen going on 77 and Still Loving what I do still doing it still doing it strong.
I love it so I after time, after Tommy Hearns, is when you kind of switch things up and you and did you automatically know you wanted to become a manager or how did that come about? And you decide that you know what let me turn my hand at doing this.
I didn’t think about it.
I was his publicist and I worked for all the fighters at the Croc boxing gym for 10 years yep and then in 1988.
After I’d been there for 10 years, a young fighter from Chicago came there and his name was Bobby hits Bobby.
Well, he’s a promoter yeah, yes and he came to fight George Foreman and I thought oh where’s, your manager.
Well, he didn’t have one so I went I felt so bad.
I mean here’s, this young kid coming to find the iconic George Foreman.
He has no manager.
So I said well, if you, if you need help, you know I’ll I’ll work and he said that would be great.
So I ended up managing him and while we were in the gym, training was when I saw James Tony and I went wow now.
There’S a kid that can really fight his manager had just been killed recently, so he had no manager.
I figured why not give it a shot and see if he might want to work with me, because it wasn’t easy to find male Fighters that wanted a woman to manage them right, I mean Bobby, it’s got a lot of heat at the beginning.
You know they.
They gave him a lot of crap about it.
You know, is she gon na come in the ring and you know hit the guy with her high heel and are you gon na hide behind her and just just a lot of stupid? I thought ridiculous Behavior, but he stuck it out.
James took a chance with me and then Bronco, mccard and Tara saw then all the other Fighters kind of gravitated and I opened my own gym and and that’s how it started.
But it was a lot of perseverance and developing a thick skin.
As you know, you can’t be sensitive in this business.
No, not at all.
At least you can’t let it show that’s for darn sure exactly.
Never let him see anything yeah you got, ta show face and um you can maybe uh shed a tear or two later, if you need to, but you definitely can’t let it show out in public.
That’S for sure absolutely that’s the way it goes um.
So yes in um 91 is When You Came Upon James Tony um, phenomenal phenomenal Fighter um a handful to say the least.
In his younger days I would say: um low wild um.
I think you kind of helped gravitate him towards um growing growing up, maybe a little bit in the beginning of his career.
You know James was the same age as my two sons, so I just kind of moved him in and and for a while.
I had three Sun so to speak at the same age, so I was hoping that some of them would rub off on him and maybe some of his you know fierceness and his.
You know dedication and his training habits and all that would rub off uh.
My boys and – and it really did they became really lifetime friends and I learned so much from James working with him.
The psychology of the sport and the fact that he might have been you know, a little high, strung and and had those issues.
That’S what made him so great? The idea of losing was not an option.
No, so he developed that whole rolling the shoulder, tucked and picking off shot his defense was, I mean he was one of the most defensive boxers ever yes and he was so brilliant at what he did that I didn’t want to mess with his psycheon tame him Down and make him some little sweet dazzle because now yeah that’s what made him him! That’S why he was lights out, yeah and that’s why I felt it was best to let him be exactly who he is and uh and it worked very well.
We were together six years and uh.
It was phenomenal.
Yes, a lot of great great memories.
I guess absolutely um Michael says wow.
You look great for your age by the way.
Oh, thank you.
Uh I’ll, take care of a man.
I appreciate it.
You look fabulous um.
Women’S Boxing Channel says not sure I could stay up, it’s already.
1 45 a.
m, and I have oh, my goodness, A1 he’s from overseas.
I believe uh well hi, I’m gon na try to stay with us.
If you can yes um and yes, we can um have Michael, we can.
The women’s Boxing Channel have Michael or one of the guys, send you the link, so you can watch it later.
If you need to leave early, we understand, I appreciate it um and so James Tony though, was your first world champion.
He was and, and we did it in a remarkable two and a half years, and in those days that 90s, you could fight six seven.
Eight nine times a year, yes – and I kept him so active that he perfected his craft, he never got Rusty.
He was always in shape ready for that phone call to come, and you can’t do that anymore.
There aren’t as many fights there’s not as many opportunities.
The fight’s controlled by just a small number of promoters and the Business System, you know, there’s a whole different streaming world.
Now, it’s not Network TV and it’s just a whole different business um.
I have a kid Michael um.
Well my Quan Williams, Mikey and um.
He’S 20-0 he had one draw that was, I don’t, consider a draw because he won but he’s undefeated and he’s an incredible Talent.
At 140.
we’ve got a fight coming up uh in June.
That’S going to be a really big career-making fight for him, and I still have that same love for the sport that I had back in the day with James Tony and Bronco McCart boom boom Johnson pinklin Thomas, you know Damien, Fuller, all the different Champs.
I’Ve worked with and the thrill of taking a young Raw Talent and developing them properly along the way, making the right matches the right decision at the right time.
There’S an art to that.
You know if it was so easy.
I think every manager would have a wall full of Champions.
Absolutely you know yourself, it’s very tricky.
You one wrong move one wrong opponent and you know the whole thing comes tumbling down, so it’s very strategic and I take it very seriously.
It’S my life and yeah.
The people that I work with um mean everything to me and I always want to do the best.
I can yeah absolutely absolutely um and I definitely feel that you have with each and every one of them um.
I think they all would say the same thing if they were sitting here today.
Um, that’s what I was just gon na add that’s the the true key to when you know, you’ve done a good job, all the fighters that I’ve worked with.
I had lunch with James last year, when I was in LA Bronco, Macar Tarik, salmasi Bernard Harris, um Bobby hits all the fighters that I’ve worked with.
I still talk to them regularly.
I get birthday cards A Mother’s Day, cards, yeah holiday cards from them, and that’s a testament to me of the closeness and the relationship that we shared yeah, that it stood the test of time and we never ended on bad terms and there’s still that respect and That same love, and – and that means everything to me absolutely – you got that lifelong bond – that yeah absolutely um so in 2004, is when they came out with the movie.
It was supposed to be about your life against the ropes which I’ve watched many times uh over and over again, just because any boxing movie that comes out female related, I got ta watch it, so I can’t tell you how many times I’ve watched it but um From watching the movie, they did switch it up a little bit um.
It definitely wasn’t a true Testament.
I’M sure there were some parts that were pretty or was there any parts that were accurate to the movie.
Let’S see I was married, it was a great movie.
I love the movie, but I knew it wasn’t.
100.
.
The movie.
The theme in the spirit of the movie was very true my spirit and theme.
Women can do whatever you set your mind to and don’t let anything stop you and that whole thing was very real.
Um in reality, I was married with two children in the movie.
I was single with no children in reality, I’m from Detroit in the movie I was from Cleveland, I mean they, they changed a lot.
Hollywood does that that by your story as it is, and then they twist it and turn it and it comes out all different, but I think the theme of it basically just a fish out of water, a person that ventured into an area that was very foreign For them, but they were able to succeed and Conquer that world and I think that’s motivational to anybody to get out there and try what you want to do.
Don’T let anyone tell you that you can’t do it because that’s their opinion and you can’t listen to those outside voices.
They’Ll get you down every time, listen to yourself.
So I just listened to my own voice, which said you can do it just keep going.
Take a look at each opponent.
Make up your mind.
I did the same thing with the girls.
I worked with Janine Garside and Bridget Riley and Yvonne Trevino, and the girls that I’ve worked with have all meant the world to me.
Um I’ve worked with Daisy Lang and Mia St John, and all these women and every one of them has been so dedicated and so loyal, yeah and has trained, as I don’t have to tell you, you’ve been there yeah the women turning just as hard as the Men they fight just as hard as the men and they go down just as hard as the men.
So I I just admire the women that get in the ring so much because there’s a very big variety of styles, with the girls much more than for the guys.
Absolutely absolutely there is um.
I know we cross paths when, when I fought Janine and I always wanted to work with you – I never did have um a manager or promoter.
It was just me and my husband after I left Sam Kelowna.
It was just me and him, and we just kind of did our own thing, because we just wanted to venture on a different path than where my career was going, and I think it was actually the gene Garside fight that actually, where we kind of split ties.
Um because I wanted to take the fight – and if I remember right, I don’t know that they wanted me to take the fight.
Yet I was only 4-0 at the time or something like that at the time um.
It was a difficult fight too, because I remember Janine had trouble getting across the border.
We had a whole lot of trouble getting her from Canada into the states for that fight yeah, I think um.
I briefly have talked about that um on my first episode.
That was a a mess that fight was a total mess um with her, not she wasn’t at the weigh-in and because there were so many problems with her getting across.
I remember that um and then I was like well.
We need to see your way in and I don’t know if she ever weighed in, but she definitely then looks like she looked way bigger than me.
That’S all I know um and, and they said she weighed in, but you know how and then you know how the promoters are and then he had me running everywhere, trying to do a pregnancy test, the day of and I’m just like look like you should have Had all this stuff organized like this is a total disaster um and then you know yeah, it was chaos um and then my my parents are in my ear, like just call off the fight like we didn’t like.
There was just so much like BS going on before the fight um and I’m like no, like everybody drove here and bought tickets and my whole family’s here and they’re, not usually here like no we’re doing this like we’re doing this um.
So I mean it is what it is, but then there was the controversy with the foreign.
I mean everybody.
I think in boxing knows – and I I talked about this briefly and I hold no grudges towards you at all, because it wasn’t you whatsoever.
I love you to death um, but everybody knows that if you hit somebody when they’re down it’s automatic disqualification in boxing you’re 100 right over 10 times, I’ve watched the video over 10 times.
She hit me while I was down and need me with the brace which caught my eye so um.
That fight is the one fight that gets under my skin.
Still to this day, I believe that I don’t think yeah.
I think it would have been a whole different fight had that not happened at that time because it got in my head because I was automatically like that’s automatic disqualification.
He didn’t even take a point.
He didn’t even take a point from her um.
Was it Frank Garza? Do you remember? I think it was Frank Garza, I believe um and it just got in my head and when I came back out I mean I still came back strong and I heard her several times.
I was hoping that she would say still that I was one of her toughest opponents um, because it was a it was a that was a brawl fight.
I mean we went back and forth toe-to-toe you came there to fight.
There was no doubt about that.
I did um and then we were supposed to have the rematch and we never did get that rematch.
No, that would have been so great yeah.
I would have loved to have seen that I know um and I did.
I did fight that with the commissioner.
I tried, but they would never respond because I just wanted it overturned to a drawer no contest just because it should have been a disqualification.
I mean Roy Jones.
I don’t know, I don’t know how the um Michigan commission handles things like that.
Yeah, I’ve never had that issue.
I had an issue with the fighter like that in Atlantic City, and I found it and they overturned it because I I just made them say yeah and watched the tape with me.
Yeah to March this tape and Larry Hazard was the commissioner then, and he said you’re right.
I see it now and they overturned it for me, but that’s pretty rare commissions, are they stand by their issues? They do um, but I mean it’s so funny because my husband, even I laugh about it today now because it’s been so long ago now that you know, but he made like a flip thing with the photos.
You know how, when you flip the books like real fast and it goes through like and you can see, what’s happening right yeah.
So we had photos like because you know there were snapping photos and you can literally watch every punch as it goes back and forth.
Back and forth, and then of course I have the video of it um and it was over 10 punches while I was down so that’s I mean I said nothing against you whatsoever and nothing I mean I don’t think I still think Janine is an amazing woman And fighter – and it is what it is, but that’s the one that really bugs me.
I don’t blame you and if you talk to Tommy Hearns, he would tell you that the Marvin Hagler fight is the one that always bugs there’s always one.
It always won.
There’S that one and the one that you never got to to ever read no.
We never got to settle the score on that one um, because uh yeah, we had the rematch in the in the paperwork and it just never.
It just never manifested um, but I always did want to work with you.
I always did want to have you.
I wish we had yeah because you certainly have what it takes and you did now, of course, being a mom, and you know your life has turned in other directions.
I know what do you think of women’s boxing today? I’D love to ask you, as a former fighter, are you happier that you fought in the era you fought in or do you wish? You were right now, um! That’S a flip! A coin question: I’m happier that I fought in the area era that I fought in because of people back then Champs fought, Champs um and the best fought the best um.
I thought anywhere from 122 all the way to 135, where I held my title um after I fought Mia St John in my third profite.
The first time I fought her.
I only fought top five ranked Fighters for the rest of my career and title holders.
Um, just because I had Mia on my resume, no commission wanted to give me any warm-up or tune-up fights, um they’re just like well, you fought you beat me as Saint John.
She had like 50, something fights you had three like you have to up the competition.
I went straight from brand new to I’m in in the top ranks so um.
Every fight that I fought after Mia, St John, the first time was dog fights like they were, the best of the best that you could have in every weight class that I fought in.
They were all ranked top five and every one of them was defending a belt in their hometowns.
I was a road dog.
I never fought at home.
That’S something to be so proud, yeah.
The fact that you didn’t avoid anybody.
Oh you didn’t dodge anybody.
You just said bring it up: let’s go sign the paper, they’re kind of figured.
You don’t see that anymore.
No, you don’t, which is the.
I think the only thing yeah and I think that’s the only reason I got inducted into the Hall of Fame, which was a huge surprise to me.
Um last year, was just because of who I fought, where I fought them the level of competition um.
I have some losses on my record aside from Janine, but I didn’t lose all those fights, they were decisions in their hometowns and they were title defenses.
You know how that goes.
I know how that is um, so it is what it is, but I’m honored that um I made a legacy for myself and and I’m known and I made the Hall of Fame, you can’t get any bigger than that.
I don’t think now.
It’S well deserved.
Well deserved, I appreciate that because they’re spiders, who have good records, but they fought nobody, yes, and so we all know that a record does not define a fighter.
No, it doesn’t it’s the quality of their opposition that defines the fighter exactly, and that makes a real champ in my book, because you, you fought anybody anytime, I did and against all the odds you were always kind of the B side and the underdog yeah, oh And takes a whole lot of guts to do that, it does definitely.
It definitely does um now talking about today’s Fighters.
I think there are some really good Fighters.
I definitely think women’s boxing has grown tremendously, since I fought um they’re, making Leaps and Bounds and they’re growing in the right direction.
Um.
I think my thing that I feel like with today’s Fighters.
Like I know in my era and the eras before me, we all paid tribute to Prior Fighters, like I always talked about, who I looked up to, who were my Idols um different Fighters that, like I had watched from the past and about them like Paving the Way for like me, you know to be able to where I was um.
I feel, like I’m sure, I’m sure some of those were like Lucia right for Christy Martin, yes, Christy, Martin Chevelle, halbeck um.
You know right those were the girl, Laura Ramsey there’s.
So many of them Bridget, on and on and on right today’s Fighters, don’t give the same respect.
I don’t think yes to their predecessors.
Yes, that’s exactly how I feel and that’s what I’ve said from day one when I started the podcast.
I would like to open their eyes um, that’s why, like this show, I made it like about the behind the scenes stuff that we’ve all dealt with every so far.
I can’t say so far I’ve only this is like my seventh episode.
Everybody that’s been on.
The show has shared with me at least one or two really like dirty BS stuff, that they’ve had to deal with in women’s boxing to get it to where it is today.
No, it’s getting better and I’m not saying the girls of today.
Don’T have to deal with some crap and Bs, I’m sure they do, but it’s not it like.
It was when we were going through it um.
You know we didn’t get the televised fights.
We didn’t get the money now.
I’Ve I’ve been asked multiple times by lots of people.
Would I come out of retirement and there is a lot of people coming out of retirement that are my age that were fighting in my era.
Now I’ve been very tempted because, like we didn’t get to fight for Undisputed, like there was no Undisputed belt like we didn’t even have the opportunities to do that in my time.
They’Re all doing it now well, look at the Baumgartner Katie Taylor surrounded all those girls.
There is a an upswing.
Now, obviously you know Clarissa Shields, but there’s an upswing in female fighting that I wish was there when you were fighting, so you could reach the benefits of these big paydays yeah rights, because it is a different animal.
Today, I’m involved with a company called striking Beauties boxing gyms for women and I’m so excited about it because for gyms there’s, two of them already and we’re opening three corporate owned gyms this year um, I believe Detroit and possibly Austin Texas and Los Angeles, and then We’Re going to franchise them out in different cities and their boxing gyms run by women for women, nice and and women and women are going to have a place to go and train that’s their place.
They can feel comfortable we’re going to have good trainers.
We’Re gon na have um the experienced former Champions that we’ve been mentioning involved in the training program and in making these places very unique and very specific to women, because when you go as a woman to train at a mail gym, you know what you go through.
You know what it’s like and we want a comfortable place for women, even if you’re training just to stay in shape yeah.
Even if you’re, a young girl fighting amateurs, you’re going to be amongsters, you’re going to be among people that share your passion and I think they’re going to be absolutely amazing.
We hope to have quite a few of them in the next two to three years.
Actually phenomenal um I’ve talked with Natalie Brown on the sugar show.
We were talking about like what does boxing needs today, like what change does it need today, and we both simultaneously said the same answer? We need more women, um trainers, managers, promoters, gyms um.
We I feel we both feel like women needs.
Its own League, separate from the men’s league, like men, can have their own boxing show, and women should have their own boxing show, and it should be split women’s off women’s almonds.
I think that would make a huge difference um.
Well they tried that um back in the late 90s.
I was the commissioner for the ifba, okay um.
You know we had all women’s shows yes and then I worked for a group called a ring of their own yeah and, and that was the series of fights yes Arnie, Rosenthal, yes, and so I’ve been involved with female boxing now for 25 years and different companies And different um aspects of the sport – and I think, maybe now coming into its own and possibly now with their own gyms and with the right trainers with with the TV and um right now streaming opportunities for women to be seen.
I I think that in the course now with women in the Olympics, yeah it’s changing.
We don’t have any of that.
I feel I’m like I talk to my husband all the time and I’m, like you know the problem, here’s the problem with it.
I would be happy to get myself back in shape.
It would take a lot to get back in fight shape, but I could do it.
I’M determined the problem with it.
Is I’m going to be 42 this year, so I mean I still could do a few.
A couple, but I can’t do it forever um and I said the problem is you’d, get back in there.
You’D have to have at least what two three two note fights before they’d, even give you that title shot, because you got to get yourself back out there.
You got ta get seen again, you got ta get back up in the ranks.
You got to build yourself up, see you, let’s talk at least two or three fights before you’d, even get to the level of getting the offer of a title.
If I were you yeah, I I wouldn’t do it.
If I were you, you have three people.
I would that one yeah that sounds good, but the amount of work that would go into it.
I know you think your body told me it was 20 years ago.
It’S not your legs are not the same.
Your reflexes aren’t as quick.
I know you’re not gon na get in here.
My body’s, not the same.
Your face looks perfect.
I wouldn’t mess with it.
Oh, I know I know let the young girls do it when you’re, going from the most I ever made, was four thousand dollars for my title: fight with Mia in Mexico to the girls now making six figures and more I’m just like.
I would just like one.
Please I know, but by the time you would get to them, it’s not even worth it.
It’S not yeah.
I mean it’s what I really think that’s phenomenal.
I would my husband – and I have always wanted to open our own gym, but Jim’s gosh, the cost of the gyms and what city are you in? Well, we I’m from Illinois originally, but we just moved to we’re just outside of Nashville in Tennessee we’re about 30 minutes from Nashville now.
Well, we’ll just have to open up one of our striking videos yeah, because there’s no gyms, I’ve looked since we moved here um.
I haven’t found one if you’ve gone there and have you guys run it.
That would be nice.
We need to talk off air.
Yes, we’ll talk about that.
That would be wonderful yeah, because there’s um there is no real.
I have not yet found like a uh one.
I think I found one.
That’S like a real Hardcore gym.
I haven’t visited it yet we’ve only been here about six months.
Um I haven’t visited it yet, but the price is very high to go there and I don’t want to I’ve, never paid to be honest with you, it’s funny, but I’ve never in my life paid for a gym membership to a boxing gym.
Well, when you’re a professional fighter, it’s kind of like your office going to your office, you pay to go to your office, I mean so then, when I’m like they’re like it’s a hundred and something and I’m like uh, but I’m the Hall of Fame boxer, like Can I just bring my belt like I’ll, maybe do some signings or something I don’t know we can work something out? Yes, whatever I hear you uh we’ll talk we’ll talk about that awesome but in the meantime, I’m really curious of the new crop of women Fighters.
Yeah who’s, your favorite or who’s, whose style do you think is really on the money? Oh, that’s such a tough one um I do like um.
I was a real big fan of bomb gardeners.
I, like her style um.
I was a little disappointed with the last fight when she ran out of gas after throwing one flurry of punches that disappointed me, especially at the level of the fight that it was um.
I still think she’s a phenomenal fighter and I don’t still think she’s gon na go far.
She is she trains here in Detroit, where I am yeah Tony Harrison’s gym.
Okay and I had a chance to watch her Spire her yeah.
I mean I think I was just so disappointed.
I was like how does she get like? It was like the second or third round and she got tanked after one flurry and then was tanked for the rest of the fight and I’m like like how is that possible with this level of fight and competition that she ran out of gas? But I mean I think she said she started her cycle.
Yeah beautiful, um, um, another one that not so many people are fans of.
But I absolutely love, love love.
Her style is Ebony Bridges.
I Love Her Style, I’m not.
I mean I’ve.
Like I told everybody, I don’t judge anybody and she’s making money where she can make money.
Personally, I wouldn’t take the right, don’t judge? No, I don’t don’t judge she’s, you like you, make money yeah.
If it pays the bills, it pays the bills, um she’s, not doing anything wrong.
Clarissa Shields, give me an answer.
What do you think right and I’m not going to say that she won’t go down as one of as one of the greatest of all time, female Fighters? I think that she will go down as one of the greatest of all times um.
I don’t feel like that, you, I know Muhammad Ali did it, but that was a whole different thing.
I don’t feel like.
I think someone should give you that title um, if you’re, if you’re a king and you know you’ve, got princes and all that you know and you’re you’re going to war and you’re a knight.
Do they have to Knight you, like you, have to earn that that title and that name um? So I don’t really think that it’s appropriate so much so that she gives herself that name and somebody else.
You know that she didn’t earn that by the public and the fans, but I take nothing away from her.
I think she is a great Fighter um.
I don’t think she’s had tough enough oppositions yet, which is not her fault.
It’S just not there.
That’S a real good point yeah, because you see some of these girls that get out there and they have to fight they have to get in there and they have to fight them.
Yes, you didn’t have any give me fights.
Nobody put you up against no easy win, um, no, not at all, but I mean she’s fault and fought in multiple weight classes.
She’S fought the best ones.
There are in the weight classes, so you can’t take that away from her she’s fighting the best ones.
There are there’s just no good opponents for her right now and there hasn’t been since she started.
That’S another problem with women’s boxing.
The farm system isn’t thick enough.
It isn’t full enough.
We don’t have another group of girls coming every couple years that are equal to the ones.
We already have exactly run out of people to fight yes, yeah um, and I think I mean that’s why she’s moved weight classes um.
I think her toughest opponent was um.
Oh Lord, the girl that came up and wait get uh Gabriel um, the one that dropped her yeah.
I can’t think of her last name either.
Gabriel’S Hannah Gabriel’s think maybe um.
I feel like that was her toughest testimony, um and, I think, had Hannah been naturally a bigger fighter and the same size as her.
It would have been made for a whole different fight, um, but yeah there’s just no opposition for her.
She, I can’t say anything bad about her, because she has fought the top fighters in each weight class that she’s been in they’re.
Just not good.
There’S nobody good enough to test her, yet I still don’t feel like she’s gon na test.
It she’s fought the best but nobody’s tested her because they’re just not even close, that’s yourself, like you, said, that’s not her fault, no, not her fault at all.
She’S she’s done everything.
She could do.
She’S fought the top names in every weight class.
She’S far her mandatories she spot the number one ranks number two ranks I mean um she’s done everything she had to do and it take nothing away from her because she is a phenomenal fighter um.
I just hope that before her time is up, one of these up and coming girls is going to be enough to actually test her a little bit and and then we can see what she’s really made of, because she hasn’t shown us everything she has.
She hasn’t had to.
I have another question for you.
I know this is kind of a back and forth situation you’re supposed to okay but um.
How do you feel about the two minute versus three minute round situation? Are you satisfied that women fight too or do you feel like they should fight three minute routes? That’S a good point, so you see it as a financial thing.
The equity should be financially Equitable, as well as the amount of time in the ring.
Yes, um, I mean, I think, every female fighter that I personally know – and I know lots of them all train three minute rounds.
We all train three minute rounds with a and I had used to train three minutes with 30 seconds in between not a minute um.
So we we could all do it.
We could all fight the three minute rounds if we, if we prepared for the three minute rounds, the problem is like, especially back when I was fighting.
I mean, like I said the most I ever made was four thousand dollars and I was in Mexico for almost two weeks.
So really I made zero dollars because I’d take we off work two weeks, so let’s just put that out there um, but I’m now it was announced today and I had to work.
I mean we worked in we’re moms and we didn’t get to train full-time.
So imagine if we trained full-time back then how much better we would have been.
I mean I trained two hours a night, so imagine if we had to train yeah.
If we got the two three definitely yeah, we’ve been a whole different monsters back then, if we could have all.
I was just gon na say that to you yeah it’s kind of scary, to think how you would have been if I could have dreamed like them.
Exactly wow, no, I didn’t I trained two hours a night like five five days a week, and I at that time I had my oldest daughter that was is 19 now and literally went to work from nine to five got off.
Work picked her up with the husband.
We went to the gym, we’re there for two three hours and we went home and she was at the gym and that’s just what we did and you know three four five days a week and that’s that’s the training that I had but like I’ve always told People, if man, if we would have had those two three day workouts a day and literally you, could just train and have a nutritionist come in and have like the massages and like the go for like your bodies like all the stuff that they we would have Been every one of us would have been whole different animals back then it would have been like off the charts with fights they would have been phenomenal.
I mean they already were, but I think every one of us ran out of gas at some point in time, because we didn’t have proper training that we needed, but that’s just what that’s just what we did, because we just loved it but yeah with the three-minute Things I think every one of us could do it um.
I think every one of us wants to do it.
The only reason that I would have never signed to fight a three-minute round was because until you were still not equal to the men we’re much closer than we were um, but we’re still not close.
I mean the boat that I have that I mean the WBC.
The men make millions and millions of dollars, for I mean I made 4K.
I know the women of today are making six.
You know at least six figures, but it’s still nice um.
So I would never do it just simply for the fact that I would be compensated.
I would want to be compensated equal as a boxing athlete in order for me to give you that extra minute per round, I mean that’s a lot and we’re already getting screwed.
I mean we can’t take much more, so I would never I mean, what’s your opinion of Laila Ali, what did you think about her when she was fighting uh Laila Ali? I thought always thought um.
I thought she was a great Fighter um and I think that the same scenario as with the Clarissa Shields um, she did fight a lot of the best fighters out there.
She did not fight all of the best fighters out there.
I always wanted to see her fight Anne wolf, um, wonderful girl, wonderful fighter.
Yes, both of I mean both of them.
Um great great people, um I’ve talked to Ann Wolfe.
Multiple I’ve never met her in person, but I’ve talked to her on social media.
What a wonderful, wonderful girl um! So I think that um she did her due diligence in the sport.
She definitely helped grow the sport just because of her name um and who her father was so regardless.
I take nothing away from her because she helped us grow.
Just with her name um, but I do wish that I would have saw her fight some of the other Fighters that we didn’t get to see um.
I think there was her and I don’t think she ever fought.
Tish Robinson was really good back in the day when Ali was fighting it, I don’t think they ever crossed paths either um thought well.
You know there was a lot of marketing involved in in that career.
Yes, the name was so valuable.
Her father came to the fights.
Yes, I think it was very important for women’s boxing that she continued to win yes and that that the show go on so to speak and that she always came out on top it.
It was a beautiful marketing ploy to suck people into women’s boxes and then, of course, put the spotlight on a lot of other women as well.
Yes, so I think it served its purpose, don’t you? Yes, I do.
I definitely think it served his purpose.
I think that, um from the time that before she fought to the time after she fought, we still took a huge leap.
We still took a big jump forward.
Um Layla was beautiful, Layla had a famous father, she put a spotlight on female fighting, she did yeah Spotlight and from there um I mean like me.
Coming after her I mean we were starting to get televised fights um.
I was the main event a few times.
Um I fought on the best damn Sports show.
I know our fight in Mexico was televised.
I mean so.
We didn’t have that before that the girls before me didn’t have that right.
Yeah started getting the exposure um, so I think her tremendously, because I don’t know we still.
I don’t think we would be on the level we are today.
Had she not came into the picture her and Christy Martin agreed.
This is another one.
Christy was on all the Tyson cards.
She was with Don King.
She had great exposure, she could fight, she has a great story and what she went through with that husband of hers.
Yes, holy moly, yes, and now you know, thank God, she’s, happily married living in Austin.
Now I had this old pleasure of meeting her at the inductions um.
I’M gon na have her on the show later on this year, a great world both her and and leaves.
Yes are terrific.
I met both of them at the yeah at the inductions last year, phenomenal people.
I wish I had more time to just yeah talk to everybody um.
But yes, without those two like, I think those were two I mean, not everybody.
I don’t want to take anything away from any fighter from the past, but I think those two made a huge divot in the advances for women’s boxing classes.
Yeah credit where credit is due right, absolutely um.
We wouldn’t be where we were where we are at the level today without them, but the problem is: there’s not enough good female trainers.
You know there’s these guy trainers that train the girls, but wouldn’t it be nice if the women had a woman trainer who used to fight who knows the ins and out of female fighting yeah, and I think Ann Wolf is amazing.
She is – and I know she trains – some Fighters um.
I don’t know if she’s doing it so much anymore, but she was like you know: 2 Chainz named Kirkland and some other people, she’s she’s, a terrific girl and she’s excellent at training.
Excellent and I I think that if more women get into the training they’ll be able to help these young girls coming up understand the nature of the business want to take the dietary needs.
The amount of running that’s healthy.
For I mean women are built differently than men, they have different content than men and they have different needs, and I think women that’s why these gyms are going to be so great, absolutely yeah.
I did not know that you were doing that, but that is like so awesome that is like the greatest so excited about it, because we’ll have products, vitamins things for women and we’re going to have merchandise aimed for women, and I just think it’s going to be Really good, it’s going to be huge and I have to say that a lot of credit goes to sue Fox, yeah Sue.
I love Sue.
I literally.
I laugh because every single show I’ve had we always talk about Sue, always talk about Sue Sue um.
I love Sue to death, I mean she was there my amateur days, all the way through um I’ve known Sue, probably since, like my second or third amateur fight, I’ve known Sue and dealt with wban and the it’s just, she is phenomenal um.
Nobody would know anything about women’s boxing without Sue Fox.
That’S right! That’S right, um, she’s, amazing, very supportive and her W band.
I mean she’s, really put her heart and soul into the sport.
Yes, and thank goodness for someone like her right, yeah, absolutely um.
I was laughing because at the when we went to the inductions um, I took my WBC belt with me because I just assumed everybody would have their belts.
I didn’t know so I took it up there with to the inductions um just to take some photos like in front of the banner and all that stuff, and so I wanted to we’re taking a picture with Sue and she’s like well.
I want to hold the belt, though, because I never got one so can I hold both the picture and I was like absolutely: you can hold it all night.
If you want to which I mean you do got to give it back, but you can keep it all night if you want, but she took pictures with the belt, but um I do later they they did um honor her with a belt.
So that’s wonderful, yeah! That was phenomenal, but yeah Sue yeah.
I love suit or death um.
Well, I found that women boxing is like a service sorority.
It is there’s a click women.
You know and they’re all sort of each other, and you know when I started in 1997.
So it’s been 25 years and back in the day when we had the ifba, those were the days of Bridget, Riley and Yvonne Trevino and those girls, and it was still new.
You know and trying to get people to go and watch women fight and not have those comments like.
Oh, I don’t want to see two women hurt each other and oh, I don’t want to see a woman bleed right and oh, don’t hit as hard as men and all the negative comments until they saw up and then they were Believers yeah.
I would sit there and they’d go.
Oh, my God.
These women are, they don’t stop slugging for the first Bell, they’re out there, putting it all on the line yeah so one.
This was 25 years ago.
You saw one female fight and it buried all the men’s fight on the card of the night right.
I agree every time I tell people that all the time and they’re like oh women’s boxing and I’m like just watch one fight when there’s a fight card on make sure you tune into the girls fight and I guarantee you’ll be fighting the night every time.
Unless I mean especially the televised fights, I mean granted every now, and then you get a crappy one, just like you do with the guys.
But I said nine times out of ten: the girls fight is the fight of the night.
Every single time there’s way more way: more action, we’re not bicycles.
It’S like yeah, it’s Toe to Toe action from Bell to Bell and nobody just pussyfoots around going back being defense.
It’S like bring it on [, __ ] and these girls.
I love it.
That’S exciting part of the support.
Every girl puts it all out there yeah every time, it’d be 100 beautiful sport and you know I’m honored to be talking to you because, as we said earlier, you you did it all you were there.
You brought you brought your game, every fight, you never dogged it.
You never took it easy in there every fight you gave a hundred percent win or lose.
You were there to show up and oh, but that’s a compliment.
That’S well deserved.
Yeah.
I really appreciate that.
Yeah I mean that means the world to me because I definitely feel like.
I definitely did that and I feel like I got the raw end of the deal a few times out there, but you know it is what it is in it, and I guess that’s what made me made the Legacy that I left behind, but um man.
If I could go back and do a few things different, I don’t know I I was talking about.
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