AIR DATE: Feb 23 2021 11:23UTC
EPISODE: Episode 33
The Fab Four | Who impressed the Champ | Talkin Fight
The awesome Post-Ali era featured The Fab Four, and on this episode we enjoy the final analysis of the epic rivalries between Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Tommy “The Hitman” Hearns and Marvelous Marvin Hagler. Watch The Scoop from Monday to Friday featuring Canadian heavyweight champ Bola Ray, who lends his vast experience in the sport and provides his comments and analysis on boxing, on YouTube and TalkinFight.com/live. #boxinghistory #sugarrayleonard
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Hello, there talking fight fans, welcome once again to another exciting episode of the scoop featuring the champ hola rae who’s uh, continuing his fantastic series on the 80s, the fab four, not the beatles, but in fact well, i don’t even think they were around in the 80s Uh, but in fact four fantastic boxers who went head to head create great rivalries and uh.
The showdown now is coming to a head and uh the question’s been asked, and you, sir, are about to answer it.
Let her rip well duh.
What can i say? Um the 80s started not with a bang but with an absolute explosion with the brawl in montreal versus duran one.
This contest determined, who had the bitter better inside game, which was completely duran now in duran’s contest with herds.
He never got the chance to show his inside fighting game and was – and this was the most impressive and one-sided destruction of any of the 5’4, but this was also at 154 pounds after the 13th round in the duran hagler fight duran was up on two of The three judges scorecards by one point, duran, was winning the fight at the end of the 13th round.
What would have happened if he didn’t break his hand in the 13th round? He only needed one more round to win the fight he needed to win one more round history dictated.
He couldn’t do it.
He only had one hand leonard, beat duran absolutely brilliantly in their second dance, which really exposed his boxing iq win the fight, not fight the fight win, the fight get the w and in winning the fight and out boxing him.
It was a short night still for one of the most unbelievable reasons in boxing history, leonard and hearns.
In their first fight, rey was actually out boxed by hearns, both on the outside and on the inside.
Hearns earned my respect when i saw that he actually outboxed.
Arguably one of the greatest boxers of all time, but he didn’t get the w i’m not here to go off and um challenge any of the of the decisions.
It’S just that just stating that hearn’s outboxed leonard for 13 rounds and then he got caught leonard uh, tried a number of different strategies to get the w, because this is leonard’s strength.
He knows how to win, and in doing so, he found one straight up bravado.
He he fought.
The man hearns has a suspect chin in the second fight.
I did a series an episode on this.
In my greatest boxing robberies series showed that hearns had improved since their first encounter in that he now understood how to clinch.
He had never had to clinch up to that date up to that fight, at least in his professional career, so his inability and improper style of clinching grabbing behind the head and letting the arms flow freely and just rip them apart to the body.
Well, it proved unsuccessful.
He corrected that wrong and in the second fight he got rocked.
But this time armed with the knowledge of how to clinch he was able to weather the storm clear his head and as far as i’m concerned, clearly win that fight.
He dropped leonard twice.
He clearly won that fight, even though they called it.
A draw then later went on to fight, oh actually, before that leonard actually admitted that he himself knows that hearns beat him the second time when he was presenting or welcoming him in uh hearns into the nevada boxing hall of fame.
He actually admitted that the second fight he actually did love now.
Lana’S next fight was against hagler, where in some people’s highs um this fight was just as big a robbery as the her the herns ii fight leonard was.
He was out box.
He was out fought in that fight and they gave him the win, but so be it.
Hagler went on to to fight hearns actually prior to the leonard fight but um.
This fight was only outdone by the hearns duran knockout duran did a face plan and laid motionless.
He was never in this contest.
He never saw anything called success, and this was done by the second round the first round.
He touched canvas twice now with that being said.
In short, i love these guys for different reasons for absolutely and completely and utterly different reasons.
Um they were instrumental in my uh development as a fighter and as a coach, they embodied so many attributes that i think, are just integral to being a successful fighter, let alone a champion now with a record of 62 and 1 duran was the greatest lightweight champion In history, at the time and pretty much, i think the only person that could have beaten, duran at lightweight may have been mayweather with his run and touch run and touch run and touch style.
I don’t see pacquiao out punching him at lightweight.
I don’t see even the great and i love pernell whitaker.
I don’t see him having that level of success.
He would just mold him at lightweight so yeah.
I think that maybe mayweather just because he’s so he’s a little bit taller than him and he is fast on his feet, but that’s a strong, maybe like actually more likely not he was he was beyond impressive um.
Now his reasoning for going up in weight was that he wanted a piece of leonard um.
It could be, understandably, he didn’t want to struggle with making weight anymore or he wanted to fight bigger guys to just for the challenge or he wanted the bigger paydays, because the heavier weight classes get the bigger paydays or a combination of the collective.
But if he had just stayed at lightweight, i think he would.
I can’t see someone beating him in his 125 career again.
That is so all the same.
Duran is one of my favorites of all time, like you just can’t take that you can’t take it away from that grit that that just toughness, but his inside knowledge was second to none.
The way he created space is the way he he used his head to.
Maneuver people’s chins, just so as to put them in the right position to catch them with an uppercut or hooks, or what have you still legendary i i still have yet to see anybody come anywhere, really close to doing anything like that.
But why not now another question i have is: why didn’t tommy fight marvin again in a rematch, their fight is still renowned as the greatest three rounds in boxing history.
There’S no question in my mind that marvin deserved that win and i’m not.
I am not attempting to uh say anything other than marvin deserved.
Marvin fought an amazing fight and won that fight legitimately um, but one in the first round.
Two of the three judges gave the round to tommy and in the first round, tommy broke his hand.
So what would have happened if he didn’t break his hand, who could say – and once again forgive me, but i’m just playing fantasy boxing, but what would have happened? Tommy went into the second round and hagler’s superior fitness level really showed because tommy was completely gutted yeah.
That was the greatest first round of boxing history, but they both gave like they both gave and received.
Yeah tommy got the better of him, but tommy came out spent in the second round.
Hagler was completely still ferocious still ready to go and he took the second round because of him tommy who’s, trying to establish his job and move around and it just.
He was not strong enough to repel the advances of that madman like there’s nothing.
He could do so and then the inevitable happened, but what would have happened if he didn’t break his head? He’D have been able to put up a better fight, would have been able.
Would it would have been able to actually slow haggler down or stop him, even though i don’t think anyone has ever slowed hagler down? Who knows again fantasy boxing tommy was winning the fight with leonard one on all three scorecards going into the 14th round, and that was after leonard had already knocked him down in the 13th round.
But he was up by a large margin like the fight was his.
If he could, if he could have survived another six minutes, the fight was his now.
The sport of boxing is all about inches and tommy got caught full stop, having never been in the situation before, at least not in his professional career.
He blundered and he again like i said he he didn’t know how to um how to clinch how to how to preserve himself.
How do you how to buy time uh until the next uh the bell went in the rematch you saw in my eyes he outbox lettered easy and you saw how he progressed.
He did his homework and he learned how to clinch.
He got rocked, but he learned how to clinch.
Therefore, outside of that, when i don’t think that there’s anybody that could have beaten tommy that welter or light welter, he was a freak of nature.
He was like, with those freakish dimensions: six foot, one um uh, six foot, six reach.
This is at a guy, who’s, 140 or 147 pounds.
I just don’t see it and it was.
It proved positive if he had just stayed at welterweight outside of the lost array.
Um, it would have beaten him.
He’D already walked into that fight with a record of uh, 32 wins, 32 fights and 30 knockouts, and then we come to his sweetness.
He was just that to watch.
He is the only one of the fab four to get a win, a w over all the other participants of that weight clause.
One thing that ray knew how to do was ray knew how to win.
He did whatever it took to win the fight.
He it took him his 16th round before he could start listening figuring out how to be duran.
That was his boxing iq in his 16th round.
He started he he put together a plan that worked flawlessly.
It was after the 13th round that he figured out how to beat tommy via just scan your ground and swing for the fence, and he caught him.
Tommy had a suspect chin.
He exposed himself by chin, ray beat marvin before they stepped in the ring, ray, went and in so much way, shape or form convinced him to give up all his strengths.
Well, not all, but a few of them like the 12 rounds, as opposed to 15 rounds.
After an inactive inactivity for over three years or the 22 foot ring, as opposed to 20 foot ring in a fight against one of the smartest boxers ever, what did you think he was going to do? He was just going to run both these scenarios actually worked.
As a disadvantage towards marvin and his tribute to leonard’s iq boxing iq, no, a friend of mine today posted on facebook, a question of which i just i had to bring it up here.
I found the answers given rather interesting.
Now the question was: if you were the number one contender for the welterweight division, who would you hope the champion would be ray leonard, tommy, hearns or floyd mayweather jr now? For me, it’s unequivocally without even second guessing it would be um, floyd, mayweather, just he’s not in their class, not wealthy.
Now there were people saying heard, of which i was just like you had your mind like there isn’t a scintilla of sense at all.
In that statement, you’d feel comfortable.
Fighting hearns at welterweight yeah probably was the best uh.
I was a better boxer than the two others.
It just got caught, as did so many of rey’s past foes.
They just got caught the likelihood of catching them.
Isn’T always all that high, so you want to gamble on that as opposed to gambling.
I it makes no sense to me now.
I will discuss mayweather um in a future episode, so i’ll leave it at that.
As for the other two, i totally put them in a class of their own.
Like i said, i feel that duran was the greatest um lightweight of all time.
Hagler, i think, was the greatest middleweight, actually not the greatest, but the greatest of that time.
I think he was only surpassed only surpassed by young roy jones jr racing to have figured out duran um by their second fight, and he just used he.
He used his strategy perfectly.
We clocked on a complete shutout winning 12 rounds out boxing him and barely breaking a sweat, but again that was 168 pounds being that heavy now.
Do you think, or what do you think would happen if rey were to go down to [, Music, ], lightweight and fought and fought during? I don’t think he’d be that successful dropping all that weight.
I don’t think he’d be that strong.
I don’t think he’d be able to um maintain his strength, his speed for as long as he did, because the wear and tear of dealing with durant he just he just would not survive.
I think the same holds true with tommy, but then and when it comes to marvin, none of these guys should have gone up to to middleweight ex and to mate marvin.
Actually, my that same friend of mine actually referred to marvin as a bully, and i said why he goes well because marvin never left middleweight.
He made all the three champions come up to middleweight to fight him, and that gave him a staunch advantage.
I thought this was an is interesting take, but i don’t know if bully would be the right word.
He was advantageous, he did what ray did to him.
He made them come and play in his sandbox and then show them that he’s the best at in his sandbox.
That’S all does he make him better than the rest? I don’t know so to answer the long-standing question as to who do, i think, is the best of the of the fab four.
My answer simply is, i don’t know.
Ah, i can’t tell you, because there had, they all had their strengths and at any given day, depending on the division, depending on the weight and depending on the individual, any one of them could win.
I really enjoyed that [ Laughter, ], not fair with that being said, if you have anything called a comment, please leave it in the comments below and tell me how you differ or if you have a specific individual who think you think was better than the uh Than the rest, then yeah tell me, but tell me how tell me why and tell me under what circumstances? Is it fair that everyone come up to middleweight and fight marvin in his weight clause? Marvin never marvin was in ridiculous shape, never went down.
What would he look like at lightweight, but with that? Please, if you liked this episode, smash the like button, subscribe and hit the no notification bell.
It’S your boy baller, and that’s thanks very much after all that heightened anticipation, oh man, i tell you what uh my favorite fighter of the four purely from fan perspective.
Only for his razzle dazzling’s charms, yep, okay, but you had me convinced you had me convinced it was marvin hackler, really because, yes, you, you have you convinced, because it took him so long to get to that.
If you will pinnacle of success to go for that shot to get that shot, it was a deserved shot that did he win no, but and if he was given another shot, would you won if you’ve, given that, so you have to be convinced as being the Underdog of them all uh anyway, there you go there you go.
I was convinced that you were going to say duran, because you know what you’re off with duran and i said, he’s the greatest of lightweight of all time.
The only thing is, none of the other three fought at lightweight i i recently saw a picture of duran and leonard in their current day going.
Have you seen that picture your nose to nose? I mean duran still looks like a bulldog compared to red’s, dress 250 pounds wow five, eight 250 pounds he’s enjoying life yeah.
He must be, he must be, but boy they were great, all of them great fighters.
Great rivalries it’d be interesting to see your perspective ray on the aftermath of the fab, four like what happened uh in in their aftermath as one by one uh retired uh.
Oh, what was life after boxing look like who? Well not no, but what was boxing like.
After they had finished that intense rivalry throughout the 80s, what was that vacuum uh filled with like who were the who came after those four to fill the fans full of hope and uh? It was.
It was um.
The 84 olympic boys yeah yeah uh.
You had uh pernell whitaker evander, holyfield um.
Those two were big: the 88 you had brilliant bow, um, really um, really brought hope back into uh the boxing world, and also they had the phenom mike tyson yeah.
So they have heavyweights more or less.
They went back to the heavyweights, which is where everyone was like.
It was those it wasn’t a rivalry anymore.
It was just a destruction train with with tyson right once he got beat, and people started figuring out how to how to fight tyson, how to beat tyson um the eight um, the 90s was impressive um you had uh, not so like you had the match-ups between Atlantic’S the um riddick bow well, they never met each other, but they flip-flop belts, constantly um evander holyfield fighting both of them that kept the sport really exciting, but then the middleweights again he had roy jones jr, who was just perfection.
Young roy was nothing shy of perfection.
He was able to do it all, and people still question whether or not if he had stayed at light heavy as opposed to going up to fight john ruiz and then come back down to light heavy to fight antonio taro.
Would he have been? Who knows so there you have it? That’S the beauty of today yeah good stuff right on all right.
So thanks that, thanks for wrapping it up so neatly with that question, answering a question who’s the best i don’t know who is the best? All right thanks very much very appreciate your comments, appreciate the viewership for tuning in having a look and like and sharing and subscribing and remember.
If you’re subscribing ring that bell for notifications and we’ll see you tomorrow, night ray will do take care.