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EPISODE: Episode 6
Lou discusses Louis vs Conn 1: The first meeting between heavyweight champ Joe Louis and Billy Conn, one of the greatest fights of all time.
Discussing the greatest boxing controversies throughout history, Lou Eisen offers his opinions and insights in this fantastic live-streamed series of episodes. Watch live on TalkinFight.com every Sunday at 2pm ET.
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Transcribed:
[ Music ] good afternoon, i’m lou eisen, and welcome to ring talk as a boxing historian writer and author, i i have seen a lot of fights read about thousands of fights and i’ve seen this fight many times.
This is one of the greatest fights of all time.
It has to rank up there as one of the great fights of all time, and just as a side note, this is my real hair in case some of you are wondering if i got a buzz cut today and had my head shaved, my hair would look Like this, within four weeks, i don’t know why just is anyways back to the program now with uh joe lewis, by the time he he won the title in 37 against jimmy braddock and uh.
He annihilated jimmy braddock broke his cave in his face broke.
His cheekbones nose hit him with a right hand in the eighth round.
Braddock dropped him in the first round and louis was too was too um, not going to say too frisky, but was too eager.
You know to beat braddock most people believe and were right.
Braddock didn’t really stand a chance against him.
Braddock was a puffed up light heavyweight who won the title in a big upset over max baer and 34 and braddock had an arthritic left arm, which, when you’re finding a guy who has the most devastating right hand in history, it makes it difficult.
So he, after he gets knocked down the first round his trainer, every great fighter has someone who created them, so sugary robinson was harry.
Wiley angelo dundee helped create muhammad ali and ray arcell.
You know created a lot of magnificent fighters: roberto duran, also charlie goldman created rocky marciano, so guys that could look at something in the raw and say this guy’s got real talent, he could be something special and that was jack.
Blackburn jack blackburn was a guy who fought as a lightweight, and he thought in the 1890s and late 1880s and retired in the early 20th century and became a trainer of fighters.
He had a long scar in his face, which was given to him by his brother who stabbed him in a fight.
He killed a man in the fight, jack, blackburn um.
He wasn’t aiming for the guy that he shot.
He was aiming for someone else, but miss went to prison.
He he um was about 5 10.
5 11 fought the great sign langford to a draw.
You know he’s only 135 pounds, but he fought heavyweights and beat them brilliant boxy mind, but when he, when he got out of first of all, this is integral to the story of billy cohn and joe lewis.
The the fight the trainer uh jack blackburn.
When he went to prison, uh asked his who he thought was his good friend jack johnson to give him bail money and he wouldn’t, and he was furious, because johnson this is the late early 1900s.
This is um.
You know he had helped johnson was in prison once before, and he bailed him out to five grand.
That’S all the money blackburn had and when johnson refused him.
He said i gave you my life savings and johnson said.
Well, you were stupid enough to do it.
I didn’t force you and so years and years and years later, after blackburn gets ahold of joe lewis and trains him and turns into a great fighter.
Johnson comes up to the training camp in pompton lakes, new jersey and try wants to convince joe louis to get rid of jack blackburn and, as he’s talking to louis, he hears the unmistakable clicking of a gun and it’s a revolver at jack, black jack blackburn.
Put to his head blackburn wasn’t kidding johnson knew it.
He just said you leave now or blow your head off and johnson.
Smartly left uh blackburn ended up in philadelphia, training fighters and he was training a guy named arnold cream, later known as jersey, joe walcott, and then two numbers runners came to him from detroit in chicago and um julian black and jack roxborough, and they said we got A great young fighter and he’s a heavyweight and we think, get special and when they introduced him he said no he’s black.
No, i got no truck with black fighters.
They’Re not going to ever get a chance to fight for a world title and roxburgh on black said: don’t worry about it, we’ll take care of it and he turned joe lewis into superman into the single greatest fighting machine ever to have lived.
No one.
No one! Look at me, no one in the past 300 years and in the next 300 years could punch like joe lewis, no one when joe lewis hit you.
He broke things.
He put you down, you were finished, so blackburn takes on joe lewis and he starts training him.
How do we move joe lewis up the ladder? Well, they called jimmy johnson, the boy bandit, and they said we got a young fighter and he said i heard about him, but you know, being an n-word he’s got to take a loss.
He’S got to take some fixed fights and they said no, he said well, then he’ll, never fight here in new york or for the title.
At that time, jimmy johnson was in a battle with um mike jacobs.
The promoter and jacobs was promoting fights at the polo grounds, but he wanted to get rid of jimmy johnson and uh rick had been around for a long time.
He’D support our record.
Mike jacobs have been around for a long time.
He supported uh tax record.
He he was the one who funded rickard the money for the jack dempsey fights and for his other fights to build the stadium.
What jacobs was he was the most successful ticket scalper in the world, not just boxing baseball football hockey, opera broadway.
He made tens of millions of dollars doing this so because he was able to help people out.
He got a choice of the best seats to scalp, and so lewis’s people went to him and jacobs didn’t care.
What color your skin was, the only color he cared about was green money, and so he started to get louis fights in new york and the first big fight he had was against primo carnero, who was six six and lewis butchered him for six rounds at this Time uh billy khan is fighting, starts as a middleweight and he comes up goes up through middleweight to light heavyweight.
It’S hard to describe.
Billy khan, it isn’t innocent billy khan was a slick, moving, stick and move fighter.
He was technically perfect.
He was brilliant technician.
He he was almost impossible to hit.
He was like a light heavyweight version of ali except he and he had tremendous hand, speed and brilliant footwork and mobility hit.
He had one of if not the best, i’ve ever seen sense of ring geography, and by that i mean was he knew where he was in proportion relative to the fighter he was fighting and where the ropes and the turnbuckles were at all times, you weren’t going To surprise him by backing him into the ropes, and he always knew where what his position was in the ring, he was very hard to hit with a flush shot now billy khan uh.
This fight was june 18th 1941.
At the pull the grounds uh billy, conn, weighed 174 pounds, joe lewis, weighed 199 and a half that’s significant.
The contract stated that joe lewis had to come in under 200, joe lewis usually fought at 200 212 215.
.
He was a big guy.
He was 6-2 khan.
Was six one and a half so the reason they want to lose to coming under 200 was for psychological reasons.
You see.
Billy khan wouldn’t weigh more than 174, so they thought a guy over 200.
You know who might have a 30 40 pound weight advantage.
It would be a mismatch.
Everyone thought it was a mismatch.
No one could no one wanted to fight joe lewis, then he beaten everyone.
So khan said i will.
Why did khan move up to the heavyweight? Well, for the obvious reasons he moved up to heavenly division, because that’s where the money was he wanted to make money.
He was in the sport to make money and money was in the heavyweight division.
White heavyweights made some money, but not the money that that he made that a heavyweight would make uh billy khan won.
He was born october, 8th 1917 and he he and joe lewis was born in uh, alabama uh on may 9th 1913.
and the thing about 1914.
Excuse me the thing about um khan.
Was he won? The world title light heavyweight title familial bettina at forbes field in pittsburgh, and he did it on the unanimous decision he boxed his ears off khan was a frustrating fighter.
You know he he was sort of like a light heavyweight version of floyd mayweather.
I guess he he was almost impossible to hit with a flush shot now.
One of the myths i wanted to dispel about this fight was when people say billy khan, joe lewis, the first fight, they fought twice the first fight, they always say well, he can run, but he can’t hide.
They believe.
Billy cahn said that now joe lewis’s response not true lou nova, who had the cosmic punch whatever that was, was signed to fight lewis lewis knocked him out and they asked him.
How are you going to fight joe lewis and lou nova said he can i’ll run? That’S what i’ll do and lewis famously said he can run, but it’s a ring.
He can’t hide lewis had a mother wit.
Once when some reporters said, i heard you don’t like getting it in the stomach and he said who does, which is true, so they trained for this fight and mike jacobs said to joe lewis.
The same way, tax record has said to dempsey before the george carpentier fight another light heavyweight heavyweight matchup.
He said whatever you do, don’t kill him.
You know you can beat billy, you can knock billy down or whatever, but don’t really mess up his face or hurt him and that sort of puts lewis in a quandry i mean he he’s the champ.
He wants to stay the champ.
He doesn’t want to lose his title, but he’s fighting a popular white challenger in that era in 1941, and the fight took place once before.
Pearl harbor happened, so this is sort of an idol.
You know in a peaceful time in american history.
America knows, roosevelt knows they’re going to war against germany and japan.
It’S only a matter of time, but this is just the calm before the storm, and this was one of the biggest fights because billy khan said i’m going to beat him billy khan through a sketch of him knocking out joe lewis and khan, was, as i said, A real slickster in the ring he was a hard guy to catch most guys that fought joe lewis.
When you watched your film, they came straight at him, which is suicide.
If you go to joe lewis in a straight line and you fight his fight, you’re gon na get destroyed and a lot of guys did that nathan mann did that johnny paycheck did that get a chance go to youtube.
Watch the johnny paycheck knockout because he falls with his arms splayed out head bounces off the canvas in the newspaper the next day it said.
Have you ever seen a ghost walking i have, and that was the knockout of johnny paycheck.
He destroyed tony galento, and this is another part of joe lewis’s wit.
Glendo knocked him down with the sucker left hook and after the fight they said is the lentil hit hard and lewis said.
He hits hard enough to knock me down and he said you don’t have to hit much harder than that in boxing, but every punch he landed on galento opened a cut on galento’s.
Skin lewis was just a murderous puncher and the reason was, of course he had tremendous balance.
His balance was absolutely perfect.
Lewis did everything perfectly double left jab his jab could knock your teeth out.
You could not.
You knock guys down with jabs, come over with that tremendous right hand on your chin lights out and when he had you hurt if he stabbed you with the jab or a right hand, all he had to do was hurt you once 45 minute fight, one shot.
One second: if you were staggered, you were finished, you were out because he would land two or three or four real hard shots after that, within a second or two, you were done and there was a lot of ballyhoo to this fight and because lewis came in Under 199, the public didn’t perceive it as the mismatch that people in boxing really thought it would be.
No one thought billy khan would go more than several rounds because he was a light heavyweight.
He never been hit by someone like joe lewis, but what the experts didn’t realize, of course, excuse me was the fact that had been moving up and he’d been fighting heavyweights and he’d been beating heavyweights, and you know he he vacated his light heavyweight world title and He started to fight heavyweights and beat them didn’t knock him out, but he was beating them by decision and he had tremendous hands feet so he could get in there and last six.
Seven eight shots and get out of the pocket before the other guy had a chance to cancel most heavyweights back then other than joe lewis were lumbering guys.
He just moved towards you in a straight line.
Just hoped to wear you down.
Khan.
Didn’T do that cons con, would hit you hit and move hit and move and keep circling.
You keep forcing you to reset keep forcing you to chase him and guys weren’t that good.
A lot of the heavyweights back then, are cutting off the ring, and at that point you know they get tired and frustrated at which point you khan, had you.
So they have this fight they’re, both well trained for it khan’s bragging before the fight i’m going to whoop joe lewis.
Why can’t i beat joe lewis he outweighs me by a bit, but technically i’m a better boxer.
I got quicker hands than he does.
I have quicker feet than he does so lewis had tremendously quick hands and feet, but khan was that much quicker.
He was that much lighter, so the fight starts in the polo grounds and people are watching the fight and in the first round you know, billy khan is circling lewis constantly, but he’s also moving in and landing a lot of good shots, quick shots.
You know double jab couple right, hands left hook right hook and he gets out of the way lewis fires back, but khan’s already out of there, and he does this for the first couple of rounds and after the first two three rounds are over.
Reporters are looking at each other inside and they’re sort of hesitant to say to each other, but they’re saying i.
I think khan won the first three rounds.
What do you think and they’re saying yeah? I i think he’s ahead and khan had found his rhythm, and he found it.
Early lewis was frustrated.
Khan wouldn’t stay in one place, long enough for him to land his shot.
Lewis had to do something.
That’S one of the most difficult things to do in boxing uh, which was to land a shot on a guy, that’s moving.
You have to move in rhythm with him.
That’S not an easy thing to do, especially when khan’s moving here and as you move to me.
Moves back here and then he moves back here and then he circles around he’s not an easy guy to lay a good shot on he’s, a very, very frustrating guy to fight very highly skilled and so he’s moving around third round fourth round in between the rounds.
The great jack blackburn who trained lewis is saying just calm down: calm down, you’re you’re you’re loading up and he’s saying what um uh, what what you know angelo dundee used to say to his fighters.
Don’T load up a lot of great comments here.
Yeah khan did look very slight.
Thank you, david next to lewis, but it took a lot of punches to put him away.
That’S true! In the later rounds, uh, you know um yeah, their careers would have been different if world war ii did not would not have happened, but world war ii took a lot out of both fighters, but especially out of billy khan um yeah, and both they both lost.
Four years of their career to the to um to world war ii, a lot of fighters did in fact that my favorite baseball player, ted williams lost five years second world war and the korean war to his baseball career.
So this happened to a lot of people.
Uh, what stood out with khan is that we have seen guys who were faster foot than lewis, ramage and pastor, most notably, but khan was the first one who’s also faster with his hands.
Thank you, david.
That’S, a magnificent point.
Khan did have quicker hands than joe lewis and that hadn’t been seen before in the ring.
There were guys with quicker hands and lewis, but they weren’t heavyweights or light heavyweights khan was kahn, could get in there landed shots and then get out so david does it.
Thank you because those are all magnificent points um.
So what happens is is khan is just piling up rounds, he’s winning rounds and khan’s corner had said to him.
The idea isn’t to knock joe lewis out.
That’S not the idea.
The idea is to beat him victory is what you want.
Who cares if you knock him out as long as when it’s over you have the world heavyweight title belt, you get all that money.
So don’t worry about.
Do not worry at all in any way about knocking them out you’re, not going to knock joel lewis out.
It’S not going to happen.
Schmelin was the last guy to do it and yes, if you’re right, uh i’m going to get to that point in a sec and you’re right, everyone did think lewis would kill khan and bo and right and, as i mentioned earlier, you know khan only weighed 174, But actually, officially 169 you’re right.
He was 31 pounds less than joe lewis, and this is why most people thought it would have been just you know a complete mismatch that they would have just destroyed.
That lewis would have walked through khan easily.
The people at ringside couldn’t believe what they were seeing um.
Obviously i wasn’t there uh angela dundee who enlisted and the u.
s military wasn’t there, but his brother chris dundee, the promoter was there and he said it was the most shocking thing because for joe lewis to lose was unfathomable, but also to lose a round wasn’t even In the realm of comprehension, everyone all colors all religions, races, creeds, all over the world, love joe lewis, and they depended on him.
He was the one dependable thing.
During the 1940s joe lewis could win and he was such a sportsman.
He was such a great guy zev.
I do agree with you.
I would say: billy khan was probably the most single talented fighter that joe lewis ever fought.
It’S debatable.
The first fight with jersey, joe walcott uh walcott, was incredible and, and you know, lewis fought a lot of great fighters and zev.
I want to thank you for bringing that point up.
Lewis had a thing called the bum of the month club.
I’Ve talked about this before many times most people today and then didn’t know what the bum the month club meant.
If you ask someone today, i’m 61.
, if you have someone in their 80s or 90s or younger they’ll, give you the same answer: everyone he thought was a bum.
That’S not what it meant bomb of the month club meant that joe lewis’s talent level was so supreme.
That he made even good fighters.
Look like bums max schmeling wasn’t a bum.
He was a former world champion, so was jack sharkey so was max.
Bear you know.
Uh uh ramage was a great fighter.
You know bob pastner could fight.
Tony galento had a lot of good wins.
These guys weren’t bombs.
All these guys could fight, but lewis was just that much superior because it was superior technique, balance and is absolutely titanic.
Nuclear-Powered fists, no one could ever punch like joe lewis, so khan is winning.
The fight lewis is winning some rounds, he’s managing to catch pawn at times and land some body shots, jack blackburn is telling lewis between rounds ignore the head.
You’Re not gon na get his head get the body.
What khan was really good at too was setting traps.
He was good at at suckering guys into making it making them think they see an opening and when they reach for it, he would slip the shot move.
Land, four or five of his own and then move to the side slip to the side he would slide under.
He did what angelo dundee loved most when he would slide under a guy’s shots.
He would hit him when joe lewis missed billy conn, made him pay and whacked him back.
That’S the main thing about boxing and about joe lewis.
Most guys were terrified, but they fought joe lewis.
They were and for good reason, and so they were afraid to throw punches, because if they made a mistake, lewis would knock you out you’d end up in the hospital.
However, even even when they threw shots, they realized.
You know if, if they miss they’re going to get hurt if they hit him they’re going to anger him so, but khan wasn’t like that khan had no fear, he had nothing to lose.
He wasn’t expected to win in the first place, so the rounds are going into the bank for khan, he’s building a lead and you’re getting to the sixth seventh eighth round, and at that point the reporters at ringside are starting to say.
You know what what’s going on here is this an epic upset? Is this? The greatest upset of all time does does lewis have to knock him out? Does joe lewis have to knock out billy khan to retain his title, i’m going to get to that in a bit but and i’ll tell you the scores at the time the fight ended, but it turns out no, he didn’t have to so.
The fight is a hard-fought fight, lewis is doing the best.
He can seventh eighth round they’re in a clinch and billy con says joe.
You got ta fight in your hands and lewis says: don’t i know it and in the eighth round something significant happened and people have misinterpreted that you know for over 60 years, billy con was on the ropes, he was slipping and moving and through a punch he Missed he fell backwards, didn’t go down, but his right arm got caught outside the ropes.
He was still standing, so he had one arm outside a rope.
One arm holding himself up on the rope within the rules of boxing.
At that time, lewis could hit him lewis.
Would would have been within his rights and within the worlds to punch him? It was a free target could have taken him out, didn’t do that.
He took two or three steps back put his hands down and let lou khan regain his footing, bring his arms in they nodded to each other, and then they started to fight and forever after people said joe lewis is the greatest sportsman of all time.
That’S not why joe lewis did it joe lewis, didn’t move back and put his hands down and not hit him because he was a sportsman.
Although he was a sportsman, he did it because he had supreme confidence in his own ability that eventually he would catch up.
The con and knock him out you don’t want to knock him out under those circumstances and have people say well, he was winning, but you wait until he until he fell.
You waited and he tripped and got his arms caught.
And then you knocked him off didn’t want that on his conscience.
He said i’m good enough i’ll get him on my own time, so they they thought.
You know, as around people watching thought lewis should have done that because eighth rounds in the books – ninth rounds in the books, you know and lewis is getting desperate he’s doing everything he can and as the fight goes on, khan’s getting bolder khan is making a mistake Which zev alludes to here earlier, he said: billy made a mistake: horrible mistake of standing in front of lewis in the 13th round, trying to finish him off.
That’S very true, but this actually started.
Ninth tenth eleven cons, uh confidence is starting to really grow.
Now.
He’S thinking not only am i gon na beat the great joe lewis, which you should have realized at the time, but you can’t blame them as adrenaline’s pumping i’m beating the greatest fighter ever to have lived and i’m beating him handily he’s thinking, i’m going to more Than beat him, i’m going to knock him out, i’m going to be the first light, heavyweight guy to go all the way to heavyweight and knock out the champion, not just any champion the greatest fighter ever to have lived so ninth round tenth round they’re slugging it Out lewis is starting to land some shots, he’s winning some rounds here and there because khan’s staying in the pocket too long, but lewis can’t hit khan in the head he’s trying to he’s landing one shot here or there, but when he lands a good shot.
Kahn rolls with the punch and and or he slips, you know he slips it or he slides under the punch and when lewis misses he makes him pay, but each succeeding round.
Ninth round eighth round, ninth round tenth round eleventh round khan, staying in the pocket a few seconds more a few seconds more and a few seconds more and lewis is landing a bit more each round in between the rounds, that’s not lost on jack blackburn.
He says to joe lewis, he says, take a breath.
He said he’s starting to become a bit too courageous, he’s staying in the pocket longer longer.
It’S not the time yet he’s still got his legs under him.
It’S only that, whatever it was, the ninth round or tenth round, don’t go all out to get him out, don’t give it away, let him gain more confidence and, finally, in the later rounds, he’ll stand there and slug it toe-to-toe and that’s when you’ll get him out Of there and and and blackburn said joe, i know what i’m talking about and lewis loved blackburn like a father.
He was, in effect a father figure to him, so he trusted blackburn implicitly and, as the rounds went on khan, got more brave and khan’s corner kept begging him saying: what are you doing? What are you doing? Don’T do this, don’t stand in front of them.
You’Re, throwing away the game plan, hit them and run win the rounds you’re not going to knock him out because i’ll knock him out you’re not going to knock out joe lewis.
It’S not going to happen, hit him land your shots and then run for the rest of the round and kahn.
Wouldn’T do it.
He kept getting more confident and more confident, which is human nature, but what he didn’t realize betray ourselves said to me once is that even a tired, joe lewis, is still punched harder than any man that ever lived, and so the fight goes on and on and They’Re they’re throwing shots.
Lewis is still worried.
You know because he can’t catch him.
He can’t slow him down to slow him down.
You got to hit him to the body or literally grab him and physically slow him down he’s hitting him to hitting him to the body, but khan’s taking the shots.
Well, he’s not landing solid shot.
Lewis is getting his shots in, but not the kind that he likes, not where he can stand there and put his whole body behind four or five shots in a row or one good shot and take you out he’s not aiming for the head.
Cuz khan’s too sl too slick and too swift and slip shots.
So well it’s hard to land a good shot in the head now around the 11th or 12th.
I believe it was the 12th round.
Uh lewis is standing there and khan hits him a four or five shot.
Volley and lewis doesn’t do anything.
Khan hits him another four or five shot: volley, lewis, staggers and khan’s thinking this.
Is it now’s the time now’s my title and he goes after him again: lewis, hugs him and khan’s trying to shake him loose and as they spin in the ring lewis almost falls down.
He almost goes down he’s completely off balance and he goes against the ropes and he you know, and lou khan is teeing off on them, and the polo grounds are apopletic.
People are going berserk, they can’t believe what’s going on now, they can’t.
They simply can’t believe that what they’re watching this isn’t in the realm of possibility.
Well, our eyes are seeing it, but our mind can’t conceive it.
Billy khan is about to knock out joe lewis.
He just staggered the incredible joe lewis, the man who can’t lose the forever champion.
Lewis may not make the end of this round and the broadcasters are going crazy, but lewis is covering up and he’s getting hit by khan, but he’s grabbing onto khan he’s weathering the punches around ends, lewis staggers back literally staggered back, but he goes back to his Corner he’s tired, he’s exhausted, so he’s sitting there exhausted and jack blackburn says to him now’s the time now he’s too brave now he’s he’s he’s uh getting too brave and he’s standing in front of you and because he’s standing in front of you now now’s the Time to take him out, you want to get rid of him now.
You know now he thinks he can actually get you.
So when the round starts, let him let him come after you and round starts and lewis comes out and he and blackburn told them work.
It very take your time, don’t overdo it, don’t over punch, don’t get too anxious.
Let kahn come to you he’s going to try to finish you off now in khan’s corner after the 12th round.
They’Re saying what are you doing, they said he’s he khan said he’s done, he’s mine, i’m going to knock him out and he said: don’t they said, listen three more rounds to go in nine minutes.
You’Re the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world.
You’Ll have pulled off the greatest upset in boxing history.
A thousand years from now it’ll still be the greatest upset in boxing history.
Don’T go after him.
He’S tired he’s hurt, run, let him chase you and when he misses you hit him don’t stand in front of joe lewis, and this was the fatal 13th round and as zev alluded to earlier, this was the round that that khan changed his life in one way Forever years later, well i’ll tell you the years like a story.
After so, the round starts, they come out and khan comes out and he attacks lewis immediately lewis is jabbing him and jabbing him and louis is moving back and he’s moving back, not to get out of the way of khan’s punches he’s moving back to give himself.
Some punching room, and basically you know khan reaches uh left.
A couple left.
Jabs reaches the right lewis, slips it uppercut and that uppercut staggered khan and once khan was staggered and he stopped he he was done.
Lewis landed, another uppercut landed, a volley of other shots, kahn was down and lewis, just simply turned looked at him turned and went to.
The corner.
Khan had fought the fight of his life, he fought his heart out and he was trying his best.
People were like this pulling their hair out biting their lips too.
They were bleeding, they couldn’t believe it.
They were yelling get up because they were cheering for him.
Now get up, get up, get up and kahn gets up.
But by that time the referee eddie joseph said 10 out and khan couldn’t do it couldn’t beat the count.
Lewis walked over to him and he wanted to pat him on the head or hug him, but he couldn’t because back then lewis had rules that his managers put out for him, which is as a black man.
He couldn’t.
He couldn’t be seen to be um.
Looking down on a white man, so he wasn’t allowed to touch him or or hug him or say good fight.
He didn’t do that he wanted to, but it just wasn’t done back in those days because of the racism that even the great joe lewis faced and after the fight they said to louis you know.
Was he good? He said he’s the greatest fighter.
I ever fought he’s the most talented he’s the slickest fighter.
I ever fought he’s impossible to hit he’s an all-time great.
You know, and if i didn’t get lucky in the 13th round, he’d be the champ now after the fight – and this makes a lot of people happy for whatever reason, lewis and billy khan became almost inseparable.
They were very close friends, they loved each other and they had dinner.
Often together and you know in vegas one time ali came to see them and uh.
He was joking with them, how he would beat them both in the same night, billy khan, said young man.
First of all, it was an honor like being united by the queen, they’d, be in the ring with this man, and no one, including you would have laid a glove in joe lewis, not possible.
So i don’t necessarily agree with them, but it shows the love and respect you have for what i want to get to now is people say well what, if he doesn’t knock him out well referee eddie joseph at the end of the 12th round, had the fight Seven rounds to five for billy khan judge billy healey had its six rounds, the six he had even with one round even judge marnie monroe had it seven rounds khan four rounds.
Louis one round.
Even so or excuse me healy, had it six six.
Obviously, if it’s six six, it can’t be one round, even because they haven’t fought the thirteenth round.
So when you look at the scorecards we’ll take refereedie joseph seven, five, so lewis wins the thirteen seven six.
That gives him two more rounds, so lewis could tie it.
Could win the next two after and win on points with billy healy? He could come out and win on points with marty monroe.
He would have got a draw, so lewis would have won if he won the last three rounds.
He would have won on two of the three judges cards.
You know winning a majority decision, because the third judge would have had a draw.
So in that respect, lewis could have pulled it out.
Most people look back and say he.
You know that wouldn’t have happened.
He would have lost on points and he may have if billy khan hadn’t gotten too smart for his bridges.
If you watch the interview after the fight khan said, what’s the point of being irish, if you can’t be stupid now, of course, anyone saying that today would get pilloried as well, they should it had nothing to do with him being irish.
It was the fact that he’s a great there are thousands of great irish fighters and hundreds and hundreds of great irish world champions, but billy khan did what any other normal human being would do when you’re fighting the greatest fighter that ever lived he’s beating him handily And it went to his head and he thought i’m going to put an exclamation mark on my victory.
I’M going to knock joe lewis out.
He wasn’t able to do it and for many years after this fight, they would get together in pittsburgh, billy con’s town or las vegas, where joe lewis lived and a different event, and they would play the con lewis, fight and uh joe lewis would be making jokes And he’d be walking around and come the 13th round.
He’D sit down and billy calm would walk out of the room and joe lewis would tease him.
He’D say billy, where you going you’re missing the best part, and so several months after the fight they were having dinner, billy khan looked at joe lewis and said joe, you couldn’t, let me do it.
Could you you had to be greedy, you couldn’t.
Let me win the title and hold it for six months and then you win it back and joe lewis of course said with this great.
What if his he said, billy you were the world heavyweight champion for 12 rounds and you couldn’t hold on to it.
Why would i just give it away to you so they fought again in 46, but lewis knocked him out easily in eighth round.
Both fighters lost a lot during the second world war, but khan lost just about everything in terms of physicality.
His legs were gone and uh.
You know before the first lose fight.
He had a fight with his father-in-law and punched him broke his hand.
This is like a month and a half two months before, so he wasn’t completely healthy, although when he went to fight lewis the first time, although no fighter really is ever completely healthy when they’re in the ring.
So second fight was just a a walk over.
It wasn’t much of a contest.
It was dull.
Lewis ended in the eighth round, but in that first fight there was electricity in the air.
Everyone was excited because they were witnessing boxing history.
This was a night that would go down in boxing history forever.
So this fight happened 81 years ago and you’d have to still rate it as one of the most controversial and one of the greatest fights heavyweight fights.
Let’S say of all time, i put it up there with the first ally: listen fight, uh with allie foreman fight.
You know with dempsey jets, willard and with lewis’s fight with max schmeling.
You know here’s an interesting thing.
I wanted to mention every day on the internet on any platform you use, you always see at least two or three postings greatest knockouts of all time, and it’s usually done by some kid who’s in his 20s.
They never list joe lewis which to me i don’t even watch these lists because they’re bogus someone mentioned edwin valero, the late featherweight champ, who murdered his wife and took his own life.
You can’t compare and valero down here to joe lewis up here.
If you have a list of all-time greatest knockouts, joe lewis is number one.
My friend douglas fisher at ring magazine just named him as the greatest knockout country of all time.
Who else could it be than joe lewis? I mean his knockout total was staggering and i have it right here: 66 fights and 66 wins knockouts, three losses.
That was it.
He knocked out 52 of the 66 man he fought and when joe lewis hit you, you were finished, no one was ever the same again in their career after joe lewis knocked him out, except one man, jersey, joe walcott, was able to recover, but other than that.
No one, so this was a great fight.
It’S available on youtube, i’m telling you, even though you know the outcome and i’m sure, zev and and uh david chase.
I wonder if that’s the same david chase, who did sopranos would would um agree.
It’S still an exciting fight to watch because as you’re watching it, you can’t believe the artistry of billy cahn and near the end of the 12th round, you’re thinking louis, is going down.
I can’t believe lewis is going down.
This can’t be happening.
No one can do this to joe lewis, but billy cahn did and because of the fact that he got his dander up and lewis knew.
This was going to happen and jack blackburn, his brilliant trainer, one of the greatest trainers ever to have set foot on this earth and his corner kept saying: wait, wait, wait, wait and after the 12th round he said now now he’s going to stand in front of You he thinks you’re done, take your time, jab, jab, uppercut, second uppercut and then he’s finished and he followed jack, blackburn’s um advice to the letter and he retained his title as the undisputed world heavyweight champion 25 title defenses.
Without a doubt, the greatest boxing machine, the greatest punching machine ever to set foot on the face of god’s main earth, is joe lewis.
If you don’t know about joe lewis, go look him up.
There’S so many books read chris needs book on them.
Read randy roberts book on him read adam pollock’s book on him i mean you got to read about joe lewis.
He is just the most phenomenal fighting machine ever that this world has ever seen.
He was absolutely perfect.
He was the flawless fighter and he was as as damon runyon said, he was a credit to his race, the human race.
So actually it wasn’t damon runyan, but that was a great comment about him, a credit to his race, the human race.
There was no one like him: self-effacing, brilliant kind.
Uh joe lewis, sadly died at a young age of 66 in vegas april 12.
1981.
A lot of people thought it was sad that joe lewis ended up as a greeter, but he didn’t because he thought i’d done.
My job i’d saved america by beating max schmelin i’d lifted all of america up during the war years and during the great depression, and he was right.
I don’t want to get into his troubles other than that.
The irs taxed him on income that he had donated to the army, navy relief fund and hounded him until sinatra paid it off and they still handled him after that, but he was dearly loved by everyone and he died in 1981 april 12th.
The day after larry holmes fought, he was in vegas to see the fight uh, billy, kahn, outlived him billy khan died may 29 1993 at age 75.
.
These men, when my father was a kid when angela dundee was young.
These men were giants of the of the ring world.
I grew up hearing about these legendary people to the extent that i didn’t even think they were real until i got older and as my father used to say to me, you know i didn’t really think there really was a superman until i saw joe lewis and If anyone deserves to be called superman or a superhero forget all that stuff about marvel and dc comics joe lewis, every inch of him was superman, the greatest fighter ever to walk the face of this earth, i’m lou eisen.
I hope you enjoyed this episode of ring.
Talk keep hydrated and we’ll see you next sunday afternoon.
Take care bye,
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