Jimmy McLarnin vs Barney Ross | Ring Talk with Lou Eisen

This weekend Lou discusses the third fight between World welterweight champion Jimmy McLarnin and Barney Ross on May 28th, 1935 at the Polo Grounds in New York! On May 28, 1934, he lost the title to Barney Ross in round 15 on a point decision, at Madison square Garden Bowl, NY. On September 17 of the same year, McLarnin regained the World Welterweight title from Ross, again in round 15 on a decision at Garden Bowl, Long Island City, NY.

Discussing the greatest boxing controversies throughout history, Lou Eisen offers his opinions and insights in this fantastic live-streamed series of episodes. Watch live on TalkinFight.com every Sunday at 2pm ET.

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Transcribed:

[ Music ] good afternoon good sunday afternoon.

My name is lou eisen, and this is ring talk, i’m so glad to have you here in this particular episode of ring talk, because today we’re going to discuss a very important fight involving one of my all-time favorite fighters to great jimmy mclard, and this fight took Place may 28 1935 at the polo grounds in new york city between defending world welterweight champion two-time undisputed world welterweight champion jimmy mclaren and challenger, and former world welterweight champion barney ross ross was a three-division champion.

He had held the lightweight world title and he’d also held the synthetic junior welterweight title.

It’S called synthetic because it wasn’t really recognized, as it is today, um as being a legitimate title, but it did exist and and people claimed it at times rarely back then, but ross did and ross was a great fighter.

Ross was the next great jewish fighter.

A lot of the fighters back then, were jewish, an overwhelming amount, and that was because of the times that they lived in and because of the racism that the you know was difficult for for jews to find jobs in other professions.

And so boxing was one of the professions that didn’t have those limits, not to say they didn’t experience racism they did, but ross was the natural successor to the greatest jewish boxer of all time, benny leonard the former lightweight world champion.

So you have uh jimmy mclarnon who uh i wrote it down here.

Just so i wouldn’t forget it, but it’s considered to be the greatest canadian boxer ever by box rack box rec also called them the second best welterweight ever and the second best pound for a pound fighter of all time.

There’S the interesting thing about him: he has 69 fights.

55 wins, 21, kills 11 losses and three draws.

But if you look at the list of guys that mclaren beat he beat 13 future world champions and hall of famers.

So it’s quite astounding, i don’t know any other fighter who did that he beat the great fargo express billy petrol.

He he beat bud taylor, who had the greatest nickname, i think, ever in boxing the terror from terre haute, he beat he knocked out his hero, but um benny leonard.

He beat tony cans and airy.

He beat lou ambers, i mean kansas.

Navy was the featherweight world champion.

It was also a head breaker for the little casey crime family.

At that time he beat the uh lightweight world champ, who ambers he knocked out.

Um al singer: ruby, goldstein, jackie fields.

Singer was never world champion, fields was ruby, goldstein was was known as the jewel of the ghetto he he knocked out tons of fighters and he was considered to be the success of any letter, except for one thing.

No one knew about him at the time he had no chin and when he started to fight guys that could punch back.

He started to get knocked out since his career ended and he became a referee and uh mclaren beat a host of great jewish fighters and mclaren was not at all in any way bigoted.

He liked everyone.

His hero was benny leonard, so he was called the belfast spider that belt himself.

His most famous nickname was the baby face assassin, but they also called him the hebrew scourge and the jelly because he beat jewish fighters.

He actually went to court to stop new york.

Newspapers who loved using alliterative names to describe fighters back then, especially when they could bring ethnicity into it, because he had a lot of friends that were jewish him and ross were good friends and remain good friends for their entire life.

They were quite close.

So a man’s ethnicity or religion meant nothing to uh to jimmy mclaren, so mclaren has uh and ross.

Both have interesting back stories and you have to understand at the time this fight’s going on.

You have to look at the error and what should happen, which is the great depression, so this is 1935.

This is the height of the great depression.

When people are jumping out of windows, they can’t find jobs.

They can’t they’re getting kicked out of their houses and apartments.

They have no food, they have nothing and roosevelt started to help the country back by starting all these great public works programs.

But while this is going on in the united states, there’s several things that are happening: hitler’s gain power in germany and jews, discerning and get hurt and get killed and barney ross is aware of this.

Mclaren didn’t see himself, although the papers did as a representative of the average people he’s just a fighter.

Ross saw himself to an extent as the representative of the jewish people and the natural heir to benny leonard, and even if he didn’t want to see himself.

That way, he didn’t really have much of a choice because his people looked at him that way so jimmy mcclurman, here’s the thing about drinking mclaren, one of my all-time favorite fighters and he lived a long life.

He lived until 97.

He died in 2004.

At that time that he died, i was working on the movie cinderella.

Man, i was in russell pearl’s corner and also in her corner was my surrogate father, angela dundee, and i was really upset when mclaren died and angelo had said to me.

I wish you would have told me how much you liked him i could have given you his phone number.

You could have spoke to him and that just killed me, because i really would have loved to have spoken to jim mclaren, who had he had his faculties right until the day he died and mclaren, except for three different fights.

You know in his career uh when i look at his record, you know of how many um fights he had 69 fights.

He only took three really bad beatings in his career.

One was to tony kansaneri which, which he avenged the other, was to ray miller.

Who was a featherweight, but after the seventh round uh pop foster, who called mclaren and mike jimmy stopped the fight? He said? Listen, you know it’s not a title fight, you’re, getting really beaten up bad and we gain nothing but letting you take more for beating, and that was why she stopped the fight.

The other one was a fight.

He won against louis kid kaplan the world featherweight champion, and it was not a title belt.

Kaplan was known for the champ, the kaplan broke his jaw, the first or second punch in the fight.

Mclaren said the bell: rang came out, touch gloves and then a second later i’m on my back looking at the canvas and mclaren manor should come back and stop capital and knock him out, but he really took a terrible beating in that fight.

So, except for those three fights he pretty well went unscathed, that not to say he didn’t get a cut, lip or cut over an eye or that but um he didn’t really take a terrible beating, which is why he retained all of his faculties.

So mclarnon was born in ireland and his family moved to canada first to saskatoon to become farmers which didn’t work out large family, i think had 12 13 brothers and sisters.

One of the youngest brothers died on the way over from ireland on in steerage class.

On the boat, and then they settled in vancouver where father sam ran a secondhand clothing store which didn’t make enough money.

But during a soccer game, when he was about uh 10 um, he got into a fitz fight with a kid who was 16 17 and he beat the hell of him.

He didn’t back down.

The fire was tiny.

He was only five six fully grown tiny guy, but had no fear in quick hands at that game was pop foster charles bob foster became his manager and trainer bob foster had seen john l sullivan fight he’d seen the great tommy ryan in the middleweight champ.

We compared most to a clarinet fight.

He was there at the you know at the beginning of boxing modern boxing, when it was just a sport in the booths in england, as part of carnival, shows and traveling shows and circuses, and he walked up to the 10 year old.

He was friends with the family and he walked up to 10 ten-year-old jimmy mclaren and he said: listen, listen to me good! If you listen to me and you train and really train and do what i say i’ll make you a millionaire in 10 years and a world champion – and he held true to that – i mean he wasn’t a world champion at 20, but it wasn’t long after that.

He won the world welterweight title and he retired of millions of dollars and, as foster said to mc clarkman, there’s only two reasons ever to get into boxing.

One is because you enjoy it which foster didn’t and mclaren, and the other, of course, is to make money.

Mclaren always said: if i could make more money, you know doing something else that was less stressful.

I would, and so mclaren retired, with all of his money well invested and he made a fortune so mclarnon’s fighting on the way up and people talk about, annie, pacquiao and who fought at the welterweight and they say.

Well, you know, manny was jews.

Manny pacquiao was never juiced, never took steroids, he was tested voluntarily, surprise tests, hundreds of times and never caught once and people say well, it’s not possible.

It is possible to go from a flyweight to a welterweight, because jimmy mclaren did it mclaren started at flyweight, and one of the guys he beat was pancho villa the flyweight world champion who wasn’t a champion at the time and via died soon after the fight, not From mclarnon uh, but from gum disease from diarrhea, which was exacerbated by mclaren’s, punches but mclaren said forever.

After that he took him to take him seriously.

So he’s fighting he’s moving from flyweight, then he moves up to featherweight and starts fighting and beating featherweights, and then he starts fighting and beating lightweights and then finally he gets the welterweight and mclaren’s career shows you how a career should be managed in that pop foster.

Had two rules when mclaren was fighting first rule was, he had to be the heaviest guy in the fight and he had to get the most money and he stuck to that role for every fight except one fight against barney, ross and ross, and him have three Trilogies uh mclarnon wins the world title knocks out young corbett in two minutes.

37 seconds of the first round has to take a year off because he broke both his hands.

Mclaren always had brittle hands, like most fighters has to take a year off in that year.

Barney ross is fighting a lot.

They have a fight, mclaren’s, rusty, ross wins, but the score of cards in all three fights raised a lot of controversy because in the first fight you have, you know, one judge scoring at 13 rounds ross, uh one round mclaren or one even and then another judge Scoring it, you know 13 rounds mclaren in one round ross one round even and then the other judge scores it for ross.

So ross wins the mclaren dinner and and foster didn’t take ross seriously in the first fight because he couldn’t punch.

You know he had some knockouts on his career, but he was extremely quick.

He was a smart fighter and the question going into these fights was: how would ross deal with mclaren’s overwhelming one-punch knockout power mclaren had heavy hands, which means didn’t have to hit you solid, to hurt you or take you out.

He could hit your glancing blow and drop you, but mclaren had great leverage and great balance thanks to bob foster, but you have two different styles, meaning you have mclaren fighting in the old style.

Where he’s straight up and then you have ross who’s, fighting out of a clinch and so ross and his managers, sam pean and our winch had watched most of mclaren fights, and i saw that when mclaren lost he lost because guys were backing them up.

God, mcconnell.

Couldn’T fight backing up most fighters can’t except for ali, you know or archie moore sugary robinson.

You know sugar, atlanta, very few fighters can fight well backing up and mclaren wasn’t, you know was one of those guys who just could not do it, so you could back him up and by doing that, you could take away his power, but few people have the Power and the guts to be aggressive against jimmy mclaren and back him up.

Not many people could do that.

So barney ross was born in new york city in 1909 and family moved to chicago, where his father opened a candy store, not long after his father was murdered.

His mother had a complete nervous breakdown.

They had um, she had six kids, they all went to different orphanages, jewish orphanages and mclarens or ross sword that he was going to get them all back together.

So ross was understandably angry about what happened to his father, but the police not able to catch the killer.

So ross got into a lot of fights publicly.

He started to run errands for the outfit, the chicago mob.

He was never high up in it.

He was just a low-level guy, a low-level errand boy, but there were mob guys that he knew and he wanted to get more involved.

I said this isn’t for you, you have skills, you know, start fighting start doing that for a living and he had this great amateur career and then piano and winch get him when he becomes a pro and he turns pro and he starts to do well and His basic trademark was the fact that he was a smart fighter, he’s very quick.

He could get in.

He had a great job, he had different jobs in objects, puts his punches together and then gets the hell out of the box, and so these guys are fighting and they’re destined to me now.

What makes mclaren interesting to me is the fact that during this time period in the 1930s, they had three fights mclaren and ross from 34 to 35 over the course of the year.

You know, may 1934 uh september 34 and then may 28th again, 1935 and the thing about these fights you have to remember when it took place.

This is the great depression and so people needed hope and they needed something.

They needed a reason to keep on trying to live and mclaren and ross’s fights did that because they were representatives not only to the irish community in the jewish community.

They were representative to basically everyday americans.

These were blue collar, guys blue collar fighters, and so they have the first fight and ross wins.

Mclaren wasn’t happy about it, but he didn’t complain.

He said i haven’t fought in a year.

You can’t take a year off and barney fought a great fight.

That’S completely.

Unlike guys today that will say you know i got ripped off.

I won the fight, i got screwed i mean they were gentlemen.

At all times.

Second fight: there was a big controversy uh same thing with the judges, mclaren regains his title in a split decision and he and then wins champion art.

Winch barney ross’s managers were furious because art donovan was the referee.

Our donovan was basically known for referring most to lewis’s fights.

He was a great hall of fame referee and he very very, very very skilled.

He was irish, so they thought there was an irish conspiracy against their fighter.

Barney ross, who was jewish, so donovan, scored the fight for mclaren, and i thought, if you watched a fight.

Yes, mclaren won the fight ross fought well, but mclaren edged him out.

Unfortunately, donovan made negative comments about ross, not dealing with his religion, but ross was slow.

He was not as skilled.

This was an easy fight.

Mclarnon mclarnon had him beat from the first bell and as a referee, you have to be impartial.

So when it came to the third fight, ross’s manager said we’re not gon na allow uh barney to leave the dressing room.

If he’s the referee we’re just not gon na allow it and in the second fight, i had two irish uh who used to jud, who used to be the manager, great george, dixon canadian fighter to ever win a world title and lose it and regain it.

Dixon won the bannon featherweight world titles lost, lost the featherweight regained, it invented the uh heavy bag vented shadow boxing.

So you have aurora.

You have four there’s four, because he was a writer for the brooklyn eagle.

He also got into fist fights with other referees and there were rumors he’d been paid off or fight certain ways.

So people are saying: if you have a guy paid off to score a fighter, how does he get how on earth does he get a license from the new york state athletic commission? Well, i’m going to tell you how – and this relates to the controversy, the major controversy for the third fight, the referee for that fight and back then, priests judged the fight.

You know they scored as well as refereed.

So one of the main things you have to understand here is that for world title fights back then a lot most fights, but especially a world title flight in any weight division.

The referee was only named a minute or two before the fighters entered the ring.

They didn’t want to, let gamblers know who’s, refereeing, the fight and so before the third fight uh there were rumors in new york that jack dempsey was going to referee, the fight and this drove mclaren’s manager pop foster ballistic.

He complained to the promoter mike jacobs.

The promoter wasn’t jimmy johnson, who promoted the first two fights in long island at the madison square garden bull because he was the promoter of madison square garden and its affiliate arenas.

The promoter was mike jacobs, who went on to promote joe lewis and replaced johnson at madison square garden, and jacobs was himself a rogue who was only involved or interested in his own self-interest, so he said, apparently to foster.

I would never hire dempsey as the ref, because i don’t want to pay him 1200 for a fee which seems small today, but you’re thinking of the great depression and the pay guy 1200.

For one night’s work you know people might not like that, but that was dempsey’s fee.

I’M jack dempsey, one of the most famous people on the planet.

So that’s what i get so in order to ensure what happened.

Phelan, who was the commissioner foster, went to fame and general failing, commissioner of new york, state athletic commission and phelan said he’s not going to referee and foster, said and he’s like him.

He said it’s not that i don’t, but he’s training, barney ross, he’s involved in the actual day-to-day training.

That’S a clear conflict of interest, he’s also writing articles or having them ghost written, saying that that mclaren is old, that he’s a bomb that he’s fat, that he doesn’t have it anymore.

That’S a conflict of interest, so there’s no way that should happen and he made the same um threat that piano and winch made about arthur jonathan.

If he wrapped the third fight.

He said if dempsey is the referee for the third fight, jimmy mclaren is not leaving the dressing room, we’re getting dressed and we’re going home, and so we get to the third fight and they’re walking.

You know mclaren’s already taped stanza tape, gloved up they get to the ring and there’s emcee in the ring and foster went ballistic.

I mean this was the poll grounds which was sold out and they could hear him in the highest seats.

You know looking at general phelan and saying you blank blank blank sucker you blank blank blank, miss you, mother, blah blah blah blah and just cursing a blue streak at him and he’s screaming at him and phelan’s just sitting there.

You know looking around writing something and then says: are you done pops you’re done and he says: don’t you know nothing to do with me.

Talk to oni talk to oni, that’s what it meant talk to oni the killer man and who was the czar of boxing.

The underworlds are: why was this important i’ll tell you why this was important? Only the killer, madden mobster, controlled professional boxing at the time madden wanted dempsey as the ref.

Here’S? Why? It’S ironic because madden was childhood friends of bob foster and when they left when they went from vancouver, they first settled in l.

a pop foster mclaren.

When they came to new york, they they came to say hi tony madden, and they said to him.

You know we’ll pay you whatever you want and madden said.

No, no, i’m protecting you.

No one can screw with you.

No one will mess with you.

You understand that you have free reign because madden and foster had grown up beside each other.

They were literally neighbors in england, so he thought great madden’s on our side.

We’Re not gon na have to worry about anything.

No one’s gon na screw with us, in fact, in fact, there’s a great story once where he was at madison square garden.

He’S taping jimmy’s hands these two italian gangsters come in pole, guns and say to foster, were taken over management of mclarnon and he said i’m not the manager.

I got nothing to do with it.

I’M just a trainer which wasn’t true.

It was the manager.

I don’t know i just have his number and they called the number and of course it was only madden’s private number, and so they get on the phone.

We’Re managing mclaren and we’re gon na do this this and then, if you have a problem, we’re gon na kill you and kill your family, and no one would dare talk.

Don’T imagine that way, not even other gangsters, so madden hangs up about 20 minutes later.

He walks in the dressing room with ten of his goons and says who made that phone call to my office and the guys that i did and then you know he walks in and ten guys behind him walk in with their guns drawn, and these guys are.

Oh and these guys disappeared, no one found them again.

No one saw them leave madison square garden, but no one found them again.

No one messed with only madden, so foster and mclaren thought well we’re safe he’s, not taking any money.

The fights are on the level.

So no one can mess with us.

What they didn’t know, of course, was that with omi madden he was the only thing he cared about was money, his own bottom line, so he controlled the nightclub in new york.

He controlled the lunar race, he controlled bootlegging.

He was the power and he he was worried about the third mclaren fight with.

Why was he worried? He was worried because mclaren made the mistake of saying before the fight.

If i beat ross this time, i retire only madden couldn’t allow that to happen, because jimmy mclaren was the biggest draw in all of boxing.

In fact, in all sports this was after babe ruth’s best years it was jimmy mclaren mclarnon was bringing in huge million dollar gates and he’s making a lot of money and when mclarnon retired he kept all his money, he retired, and when he passed away at 97.

He was a very, very wealthy man.

He invested all of his money in tool and companies, and especially of world war ii coming on in playing parts parts that helped the bomb bombardier doors.

You know when the door is open in the plane, the bomb dropped, so he made all those little devices and he made millions of dollars off of that and he didn’t drink.

Didn’T smoke, didn’t gamble.

He saved all his money, so mclarnon was a very smart guy and uh tony madden wasn’t going to let this cash cow get away.

So this isn’t to say this is where people sometimes get upset.

They say what you told me ross didn’t win.

No, i think ross did win their third fight.

I think you want it legitimately.

What’S called in the question, it is the 537 remember those numbers, five, three seven that was jack, jensen’s, scorecard dempsey, scored the fight five rounds for ross three rounds for mclaren, seven, even – and that tells me one of several things.

Either dempsey doesn’t know how to score a fight which is wrong um or that dempsey was asked to do that deliberately and when his former conqueror jeanne tony brought that out and said that he doesn’t know what he’s doing the score is wrong.

He did it deliberately.

Dempsey got very angry with him, especially a pop foster, who complained after the fight.

It was a close fight.

It was a great fight, it was a close fight.

You could see in the early rounds that ross’s speed was making the difference.

Everyone thought ross would stick and move, but he turned the tables on mclaren.

First, two three rounds he’s coming out after mclaren and he’s backing him up and he’s trading with him and he’s taking mclaren shots.

No one would ever dare do that, because mclaren was such a vicious puncher.

He only needed one good shot to get you out of there, but ross was doing this.

He was forcing the action he’s going after mclaren he’s throwing these shots, and so because of that, you know he’s getting ahead in the fight.

Mclaren is standing there.

Toe-To-Toe and he’s trading with ross he’s landing the heavier blows, and this is the age-old argument in professional boxing.

You have you have a guy who’s, a better puncher landing, the better punches mclaren against a guy who’s, not any more punches.

So when you look at how a fight’s supposed to be scored, effective aggression, you have to give it to to barney ross ross is winning the fight in the middle rounds.

Mclaren stages of furious come back and he makes it close and you get to the later rounds.

Ross is pouring it on and then in the middle later rounds, 12 13 14, 15 mccarman’s, making a hell of an effort to come back at ross and he’s hitting him with great shots.

But it was mclarnon who got tagged late in the fight where his knee sagged, but he stayed up on his feet.

Both these guys are just going at it hammer and tom, but ross’s speed was the difference in his mobility.

He keeps turning mclaren, which was a smart thing to do.

You don’t want to ever let a puncher get set, so he keeps hitting him and he keeps turning him and sometimes unbelievably and to the frustration of his corner.

He’S standing right in front of mclaren and he’s throwing shots he’s his attitude, i’m not afraid i’m going to do this, i’m going to keep throwing punches, i’m throwing punches and we’re going to go at it here, but he was quicker than him clark.

The thing about mclaren was: he had a lot of wars, you know, mclaren, wasn’t a stick of move fighter, he was a smart fighter, he was technically smart, but he got their first with the mostest.

He had a tremendous punch and mclarno were getting close and he had a four five six punch combination where he’d hit you left up to the liver, bring your arms down, hit your right hand to the jaw, which would stagger you follow up with the left hand, To the jaw, then, he hit another left hook to the liver, and then, when you brought your hands down, mclaren would finish it off with the right hand straight right hand over the shoulder.

That was what mclarner would do and ross smooth is coming in, and mclaren’s manager and trainer pop foster thought ross is just a puffed up lightweight.

He can’t take the punches one, big thing that impact all the fights.

Only time foster of a mistake was during these fights.

He agreed that 142 pounds and hadn’t fought lower than 147.

You know in four five six years, making 142 really weakened him, whereas ross coming up from 135 easily fought at 142 and also for all three fights.

You know these were the only fights mclaren was having in that year, but ross had the first fight with mclarnon fought two or three guys.

Second, fight fought another three guys and then, by the time, he’s fighting mclaren in third fight he’s fight ready.

Even though he’s been training he’s fight ready, you know he hasn’t taken time off.

His skills haven’t rusted mclaren had to take time off, because mclaren’s hands were broken and mclarner often broke his knuckles.

So he had no choice but to take time off so it it was really.

You know it was quite difficult at that time.

So you have this third fight and the before the fight and after the fight, especially after the fight pop foster, his manager was very upset because he said you know, look at the look at the people in the fight.

You have dempsey, he thought it was a jewish conspiracy, although he was not a racist father, because jack dempsey’s paternal grandmother was rachel solomon.

She was jewish dempsey, a jewish blood.

One of the judges was abe goldberg.

He scored to fight 861 ross, which is probably as close to a perfect score for that fight as you’ll get.

That was the correct score for the fight.

The other judge lecron, who foster said, was jewish but changed his name, which was not true um.

I think had had to fight something like seven, five or eight five, four ross two rounds even and so i didn’t agree with that, but that’s still a reasonable score card and then you have jack dempsey, seven, five, three or five, three seven.

You know five rounds ross three rounds learned in seven rounds, even which is ridiculous.

The problem is, as i said before, only only madden wanted to protect this huge investment in boxing.

He could not allow jimmy mclaren to beat barney ross and then just retire, because then he’s out millions of dollars and he’s not going to allow that now mclaren and foster, there’s nothing they could do about.

It foster complained to the papers after the fight, he called dempsey, a crook and a criminal and a thief, and he did it deliberately.

He had points, dempsey, wasn’t a crook or a criminal or thief by any means, but he did favor ross and he did train raw, helped train ross and he did write articles insulting juvenile clarinet.

That alone should have disqualified him, but it didn’t and people blame the new york state, athletic commission, but it wasn’t their call and then they blamed the promoter.

Mike jacobs wasn’t its call.

It was collimony, madden and so finally to shut foster up.

They had a meeting at the new york state, athletic commission and foster had evidence in black and white.

Here the articles dempsey wrote you’re right, he wrote them and here’s film of him training ross you’re right.

That should not have happened and he doesn’t have an actual license from the new york state, athletic commission to referee a fight, you’re correct.

He should have had that and he hasn’t even had the eye test.

You’Re right, mr foster.

That was a mistake and we’re going to correct that, and they said everything you brought up is correct.

He should not arrest, but that’s what only wanted.

Why did only one jack dempsey there, because he was still a big draw because of dempsey there in the height of the depression, people are still going to pay money, even though he’s the ref just to look at dempsey or talk to him or get his autograph And foster at that point knew i can’t complain tony madden or call him names because i’ll end up with a bullet in my head, there’s just nothing.

I can do about that.

Madden’S word was law.

He said that dempsey would ref and score and that’s the way it went now, even if you take dempsey’s scorecard out raw still wins the fight.

In my opinion and for me when i was very young, it was sort of a dilemma because my father told me who grew up here in toronto and he was born in 28, so growing up in the 30s him and his older, siblings, brothers and sisters and His parents, they loved jimmy mclaren because he was canadian, but they also loved barney ross because he was jewish, and so it was difficult if you’re, a canadian jew who do you vote for, and my father wanted, of course, jimmy mclaren, because mclarnon was the canadian and Mclaren went to his grave years later, believing that he beat barney ross, matt fleischer said it was one of the worst decisions he ever saw.

He was the owner and founder of ring magazine.

He said mclaren beat him and gave him a beating.

In fact, 16 sports writers, new york, sports writers, six thought mclaren won the fight and that’s a fair amount because usually they’re for their american fighter or their hometown fighter.

There were a lot of people that thought mclarnon wanted to fight ross came out with worse facial injuries, which always brings the question up after a fight.

You look at the two fighters, who would you rather be and ross went on to fight a lot more times after that and ross’s record? You know when you look at the guys that ross beat, i mean rossby a lot of great guys.

He beat middleweight champ ceferino garcia three times he beat izzy janazzo.

He beat uh uh, frankie click, the fargo express billy petrol.

He beat tony kansas mary, you know, he’d be battling battlino and after this fight mclaren only had a couple more fights.

He took the worst beating of his life against tony kansas and harry, who made the worst comments about mclaren’s, wife and then in a rematch.

Mclaren gave him a slow beating, and by that i mean he had cansonary out several times, but he didn’t knock him out.

He wanted to punish him, then he easily beat lou ambers and he retired, and he retired, because when he met with pop foster pop foster had said to him.

Listen, you know it’s.

What 1936 you have it’s the midst of the great depression.

Mclaren had almost two million dollars in the bank um, he didn’t need the money and he had money coming in and and foster said we only fight for money or because we enjoy it.

You’Ve never enjoyed it and we don’t need the money.

Nothing left to prove.

Why wait for a fourth ross fight and they weren’t even going to fight for the title originally, because all foster mclaren were interested in was making money? That was it? It’S a business, it’s entertainment, but it’s a business and only as an afterthought that foster say we should probably win a title jimmy just you know so, 100 years from now, people will know how truly great you are and that’s why he fought for the welterweight title Gangs against young corporate knocked him out in two minutes and 37 seconds.

He also had fought before for the lightweight title against sammy mandel, but lost the decision and then subsequently, whenever later on, went on to beat mandel several times so ross wins.

The third fight ross goes on to beat, i think, have 18 more fights.

He finally loses the welterweight title till man is considered the first or second uh pound fighter ever to have lived henry armstrong.

In fact, in that fight he was giving ross such a beating.

The rod says management wanted to stop the fight.

He said if you stop the fight i’ll, never talk to you again, so they sent a emissary over to armstrong’s corner and i asked if he would carry barney for the last five rounds which armstrong did and allowed ross to finish on on his feet.

So after the careers are over, they have divergent careers.

Ross had to fight a lot during his career because he was addicted to gambling.

He had a love for the ponies and he was he did reunite his family eventually, but he lost money all the time.

He never had much money because he was spending it all on horse racing.

So what happened was what happened was is that after the fight um after his career is over, you know he joins the us uh marines fight to guadalcanal.

He wins the silver star of merit, he gets injured and they get morphine, gets back to the states and he gets hooked on heroin and he has to battle with heroin and it almost killed him.

But with the help of jimmy mclaren and great medical help, he was able to beat it in 47-48.

He helped through his former mob contacts, raised millions of dollars and millions of guns and machinery and weaponry for the new nascent state of israel and he continues on.

But when you look at him he’s in the late 40s early 50s, his hair is great.

He’S not a well man, because you know he’s smoking and he had this heroin addiction and it took years off of his life and so ross and mclaren became very close.

Friends, i i don’t know why people up there, but they were very close and ra, never publicly.

They never publicly dissed each other.

They never privately dissed each other either all mclarnon says.

Well, i i thought i won the third fight that that was it.

You know, but he said it’s more important, that barney and i are healthy and that we’re friends and they that you know they would go over to each other’s house ross would come in from chicago ross, unfortunately became friends with jack ruby.

Who was the man who killed lee harvey oswald uh after the kennedy assassination, and actually he had to testify in front of the warren commission? Uh barney ross ross never lost his mob contacts.

Jimmy mclaren have been good friends of phony madden, but you have to understand in that point of time.

In that era he didn’t really have a choice: you’re not going to say to only man and well you’re a gangster.

I can’t associate with you because that gets you a sure ticket to the moon yard.

So you know rob mclaren, never badmouthed him, but he never badmouthed.

Anyone that was just jimmy mclaren, so mclarnon lives out the rest of his life in california, with his wife, his beautiful wife and three daughters, an adopted son and then, when his wife passes away and his children have moved to seattle.

He moves up to richmond seattle and he’s there.

Now he lived to be till 97 years old and, as i said, i could have contacted him.

Had i had the uh foresight to do it and asked angelo dundee for the phone number mclarnon uh was a teetotaler, but apparently he would go to cauliflower alley, which was this club for ex-prize fighters in california.

When they’d have meetings to see all those old prize fighter, friends and then he would have a drink once in a while, but that wasn’t until his late 60s.

So it’s quite amazing.

Here’S a guy who didn’t drink, he never smoked, but he didn’t drink until his late 60s.

You know, and he was a gentleman to everyone, the great art hafey who’s, the name.

You should look up art.

Haiti was the best featherweight on earth in the 1970s, rated above the champion by ring magazine, he knew um jimmy mclaren and mclaren said to him the same thing he said to another great canadian fighter fly away ian clyde.

He said to both of these gentlemen.

He said that was the thing he said.

He said a fighter can always afford to be a gentleman and mclaren had heard that from from james j corbett, and he always took that seriously.

You know when he was supposed to fight benny leonard, who lost all his money in the stock market crash from the great depression, uh mclaren said i don’t want to do this benny, you don’t.

You know, you’re beating these bums in your comeback.

Let me just give you money and leonard said: no.

I deserve a chance to fight you you’re one of the top fighters.

Let me do it and he said i don’t want to hurt you please.

Let me just help you out financially, i can afford it.

You can pay me back whenever or not and he wouldn’t leonard wouldn’t take it.

So mclaren gave him a terrible beating and the referee had to stop it after six rounds and mclarnon was in tears because benny leonard was his hero and he was also really upset when leonard died in his 50s in 1946, from a heart attack.

While referring to fight so mclarno was well connected in sport, he was well loved he’s one of the alpine great fighters.

If you get a chance just before we wrap up here, you can go to youtube and get the full 15 round.

Third fight between mclaren and ross and the great thing about this fight, not only the ebb and flow of it, but unlike a lot of fights from that era, or even the 20s or films of other sports, the speed isn’t off they’re, actually fighting at the speed.

You would watch today so if people you know last night saw the vegas uh, not vegas the the fight between uh, between the filipino fighter and uh, mexia and and ray vargas.

If they saw that fight that was similar to the third ross mclaren fight, it was fought at that pace.

A very quick pace for the full 15 rounds.

Dempsey scorecard, i thought, wasn’t legit uh.

There was something wrong and years later, when asked about it.

Dempsey said you know, listen, i’m one guy, the mom had all their meetings about fixing fights in my restaurant.

You think they would have hesitated to kill me if i’d come out and said something about the ross mclaren through the fight my scorecard, he said i can’t fight the mob on my own.

All i could do was say yes, sir no sir, and anyone else who thinks they could have done better.

Let me know who you are and he was right.

You just couldn’t fight them, so it was a great fight.

It was it helped the people during the depression it gave them something to live for, gave them that precious commodity of hope and both fighters held their head high after each fight and mclaren, especially after the third fight he shipped ross’s hand.

He said i thought i won it, but i’m happy for barney he’s a great fighter and he’s a great person and two more fights and then mclaren retires, and there was never any controversy about him.

He was a faithful husband.

He was a great father and grandfather very smart and when his manager pop foster died in 1955, he had 500 grand saved up and he left all of it to jimmy mclarty foster was a surrogate father to him and foster would always send money from his portion.

Not mclaren’s, but from his portion to of mclaren’s earnings to mclaren’s family in vancouver to help them out.

Mclaren was also there’s great articles on the internet by andy lytle.

The toronto star became good friends of mclaren and cover the fight.

So this is a great fight.

Mclaren is one of the top, maybe the greatest canadian fighter of all time, along with sam langford, who never won a title and george dixon.

So you have to give these guys credit.

They saved the sport of boxing during the great depression.

They filled stadiums when people had no money and they gave people hope, and you know when you look back at your life and when you look back at people’s accomplishments, giving someone hope is probably next to money.

The greatest thing you can do for them.

So if you get a chance, go to youtube, watch the third mclaren fight and climate ross, in fact, if you can watch all three fights, but the third one is just a humdinger, it’s just it’s just back and forth for all 15 rounds.

Neither fighter took a moment off and it’s well worth watching.

I hope you enjoyed today’s edition of ring talk.

I want to thank eric boyce for for uh, producing the show so well, and i want to thank you, the viewer for watching.

I hope you enjoyed it and i’ll see you again.

Next sunday, at 2 have a great day.