Jersey Joe Walcott vs Rocky Marciano | Ring Talk with Lou Eisen

This week Lou discusses the September 23rd, 1952 world heavyweight title fight between Jersey Joe Walcott and Rocky Marciano. Great fight!!!

Discussing the greatest boxing controversies throughout history, Lou Eisen offers his opinions and insights in this fantastic live-streamed series of episodes. Watch live on TalkinFight.com every Sunday at 2pm ET.

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Transcribed:

[, Music, ] hi, i’m lou eisen, and welcome to ring talk and this week we’re going to discuss the september 23rd 1952 world heavyweight title fight between uh, the champion jersey, joe walcott, who was 38 years of age, which was considered to be ancient back then.

But when you think about it today, it’s still quite young, i’m 61.

and rocky marciano, who i think was 33 32 33.

At that time, marciano was a slight favorite in the betting and uh wildcat had just won the title three months earlier in uh on his fifth try.

He tried twice before with joe lewis: uh won the first fight, but didn’t get the decision.

That was a big controversy and then uh second fight.

You never fought joe lewis twice that was death, lewis knocked him out in 11th round, then lewis retired and they had a tournament and uh.

The tournament lewis lent his name to the tournament.

But the tournament was controlled by the mafia, uh frankie carbo under the auspices of the international boxing commission, run by james norris, who loved who, who owned the chicago blackhawks detroit red, ring red wings and owned.

The arenas and louis was going to lend his name and in return for that, get 250 grand he lent his name.

He got no money and out of this tournament, ezra charles was one of the all-time all-time great fighters and magnificent light heavyweight, great heavyweight, champ really skilled, and he committed an unpardonable unpardonable unpardonable.

Excuse me i’ll get it right sin and that he beat you loose and that’s when they accepted him as the world heavyweight champion, though he’d won it before that.

So charles defended against walcott.

He was the best contender out there and beat him twice and charles needed to make more money off the title and there was no one else to fight.

So what happens is um um you, you um, hang on one sec here now, i’m being asked, do you want to switch video inputs? I think you not know.

I think you might not know it’s using the laptop cam.

It is using the laptop cam.

I didn’t know that, and i don’t know why it is doing that or just look at the laptop cam, okay, so i’ll look at the laptop kit, rather than the one that i paid good money for.

I don’t know why it’s not doing that i’ll have to figure that out somehow.

So what happens is uh wildcat is the only reputable challenger there for marciano or for uh charles.

He fights charles – and this is the third fifth time for him – that he’s fighting for the world title third time he fights charles and in the seventh round.

You got ta see this on youtube.

He lands the uppercut of the greatest uppercut of all time.

Left.

Uppercut takes charles head and turns it all the way around charles staggers back to the ropes fights over walcott.

Finally, wins he’s now: the undisputed world heavyweight champion, the oldest ever at um, 37 years of age.

Until of course, george foreman comes along and wins it at 45, but walcott uh has eight children.

Walcott is an interesting backstory.

He was born in camden new jersey.

His father was from the west indies.

His mother was from from um united states.

His father’s hero was the original joe walcott barbados, joe walcott uh world welterweight champion people.

Look at him as the first.

He wasn’t really.

The first, the first welterweight world champion was uh canadian, mysterious billy smith born in digby nova scotia.

So you get walcott and his real name is arnold raymond crean and he takes the boxing when he’s young and he he um changes his name to jersey, joe walcott, in honor of his father.

You know, he’s very young has kids.

He starts off boxing boxes.

A lot in new jersey boxes, a lot in nearby philadelphia and he’s doing all right, and he bumps into one of the greatest several trainers ever to have lived jack, blackburn who’s.

Also, a magnificent uh world, uh, lightweight challenger or fighter and blackburn fought everyone from jogans and to sam langford.

So blackburn was a genius, but he had a hot temper and never got a chance at the ward lightweight title because he was because he was african-american.

So he started to train walcott and at the time he was training a wall cut.

This is the late 20s early early to mid 1930s.

What happens is two uh numbers runners from the african-american underworld, one from chicago one from detroit, john roxborough and julian black? They come to him and they say we got a new kid out of detroit named joe lewis, who’s gon na move to chicago to be with you and he’s black, and we think he can be the world heavyweight champ and, of course they said or blackburn said.

No, no, no! I’M not gon na train a fighter specifically to win the world heavyweight title.

They’Ll never give a black man a chance after jack, johnson, blackbird and johnson hated each other and and when johnson came up to uh joe lewis’s camp once to try to get rid of blackburn like to convince lewis to drop him.

Blackburn put a gun to his head and said, leave or die, and he wasn’t kidding he would have pulled the trigger so he’s getting offered more money to train lewis than all the other fighters, white fighters and black fighters combined that he’s already training.

He can’t turn her down.

He needs some money, it’s and it’s the depression, the great depression, so he goes and he trains and he he invites uh wildcat to come with him, but wildcard doesn’t want to be second bananas, so he plays his career.

He stays there and he fights and fights and fights and he’s having some good fights.

Some bad fights.

You know it’s the depression he’s not eating.

Well, he’s got kids, he doesn’t get a chance to train much and the the near the the end, not the end, but the lowest point of his life.

He fights a guy named abe simon who was in the movie on the waterfront um.

I don’t know how many of you remember, andre, the giant but andre the giant had the same pituitary problem that abe simon, had where abe simon was six four six five unusually large head gigantic hands.

Wasn’T that skilled lewis knocked him out twice and um? He beat he stopped walcott and walcott was embarrassed to lose to someone like that and so walcott quit and as the war effort heated up in the late 30s early 40s walcott got better jobs, working for the federal government and was starting to make good money.

He would occasionally fight and um walcott, i’m just looking for his date of birth.

Here was born january 31st, 1914, whereas marciano was born september, 1st 1923.

, so walcott luckily had a benefactor.

He had a man named uh, felix, buchiccio or bakikio, depending how you pronounce it, and this was a mob guy.

This was a guy who was deeply connected to frankie carver, who was running boxing and he could move walcott’s career along walcott didn’t want to get back into it.

He’D been disappointed enough, even ripped off in so many of his his um fight purses, but the kikios said: listen, we’ll we’ll do this! Well, i guarantee you so he told walcott to quit his job for the government which he did and he financed everything for whatever reason, pikio had a very um soft spot in his heart for walcott his family, so he paid training expenses.

He paid everything and walcott started to beat fighters.

He started to do well.

He had some losses too, but he started to move up in the rankings at a certain point.

After joe lewis had come back.

This was just after the war.

Uh lewis was having a tough time finding finding um opponents that were actually that good that people would want to pay.

The talent was so overwhelmingly supreme, no one could beat him, and so they figured they’re going to have an exhibition match.

You know 10 12 rounds.

Walcott lewis, nobody really knew walk up, then he wasn’t a well-known name so they’re having this fight and they said when they’re having to fight that um uh.

The only way welcome winning title is: if he stops lewis, which people thought was an impossibility and tickets sales.

Aren’T going that great and then the gardens decides well, you know what madison square garden we’re going to make it a world title fight 15 rounds and then ticket sales take off and they have this fight and walcott beats lewis hands down.

He beat him in that fight, didn’t get the decision, but he beat him and walcott.

As my mentor angela dundee told me, was a real cutie pie, real slickster in the ring he he he had this habit of.

If he was squaring up against you, he wouldn’t square up.

Excuse me be on an angle and when he would do that, if you were in a clinch with him, the referee broke, it he’d sort of walk away from you in a half circle and when he’d walk away he’d be facing you on an angle and then, When you went towards him, he stick his left, jab out and then hit you with a sucker right hand.

You never saw coming and he dropped lewis twice lewis couldn’t believe that and lewis fought his heart out and at the end of the fight lewis left the ring because he thought he had lost.

He said later, he didn’t that’s not why, but that is why and angela was there and everyone thought marciano or excuse me, walcott won and they gave it to joe lewis.

People couldn’t believe it, and so they had a rematch and in the rematch walcott dropped loose again and they kept fighting and fighting.

But then walcott made a mistake of trying to stand there and trade and it’s you know it’s suicidal to trade.

With joe lewis i mean he was the greatest puncher in the history of boxing going back over 300 years and they tried.

You know wildcat tried to trade and lewis caught him and knocked him out in the 11th round and then well.

You know, lewis retires.

Undefeated.

1949 undefeated they have to have the tournament while that’s happening.

Rocky marciano is born september, 1st 1923 in brockton massachusetts and he’s got two immigrant parents.

His father mother was a homemaker.

His father was a shoemaker and that was hard work back then.

My own grandfather did that it was piece work.

You had to make something like 50 to 100 pairs of shoes to get it to get a nickel or whatever what i mean it was very dreadful work, so marciano’s in high school, and he loves baseball.

That’S his first love and he had a try out with the boston red sox for a catcher, but he was just he was too short arms weren’t long enough, couldn’t throw quick enough could hit, but that wasn’t his sport.

And so he on a lark, because the friends of his like ali colombo, he tried boxing and he did well and so he’s boxing, and he figures, you know, he’s an athlete he wants to do something physical.

He was always a physical fitness fanatic.

He gets into boxing and he starts doing well, but he’s not he’s not really that skilled and he’s fighting guys that aren’t really that good.

You know it’s just that he has a punch that could drop a charging rhino.

No one could punch like rocky marciano.

He was only five 10 and a half 186 pounds and people say well.

How would he have done against an alley or a klitschko? But if someone takes 186 pound piece of wood and hits you in the head you’re done and that was marciano, you got full leverage and marciano had one of if not the greatest trainer ever charlie goldman and charlie goldman came up with the famous phrase.

No one invents a fight or invents a game.

Excuse me just to be beaten at their own game.

Obviously, if, in other words, when you fight a person, you fight to your strengths, if you’re fighting to the other person’s strengths you’re going to lose.

So that’s not the smart thing to do so.

This is the story.

It’S a true story.

Angela dundee told me angelo’s waiting in new york in stillman’s, gym and he’s sitting he’s standing there, charlie goldman, and this is late – 40s.

49.

You know and he’s standing there and he says charlie, i’m hungry, i want to go for lunch and charlie has a watch on the stopwatch, because i got one more kid coming in we’ll look at him and then we’ll go for lunch after i want to eat.

Now angelo just give me a break but take five minutes who’s this kid and he’s trying to read off the paper.

He said he looks at ty and you read it and he looks and he says uh rock rocco marchegiano something and it was rocky marciano and angelo said, listen, i’m you know.

Finally, i’m just gon na go eat i’ll, meet you there, because no wait, and so you said coleman says i’ll, get rid of the kid.

Don’T worry about it.

So marciana gets in the ring, who really put him in the ring with they put him in with the 10-year pro a stick-a-move fighter, a guy’s like 6-1-6-2.

They figure he’s going to take marciano out in a minute or two, and then they can go for lunch and marciano gets in the ring.

He throws, the right hand misses and he falls.

His body goes through.

The ropes doesn’t go out of the ring, but he’s very awkward misses.

The left falls down on this on all fours and he’s missing and falling and uh angela said.

Okay, are we done and charlie goldman looks at his stopwatch and goes okay got about a minute and then we’ll have lunch and then all of a sudden rocky throws a right hand and hits this guy up near the side here of his head and knocked him Out cold, the guy ended up having a fractured skull.

The guy was taken to the hospital, he never fought again and angelo said goldman says there it just like drops a cigar out of his mouth.

He can’t believe it and – and he said what do you think and goldman says – i’m going to sign him and he said, but he’s got no balance, he keeps falling.

He said you’re right, but a guy who could punch hard enough to drop a charging rhino.

Is someone i need to have everything else? I can teach him and you know what he did.

He did teach him everything else.

He got marciano in the ring.

He would tie his feet.

You know tape it to the ring and then tie his feet together and say.

This is how you stand when you’re, throwing your right hand twist at the waist, throw it with the shoulder and he got him to do that.

He didn’t just do it for five minutes.

He would do it from seven in the morning to seven at night 12 hours a day, he’d get him to throw it tens of thousands of time, um and, and he would show him get in the ring and show him.

This is how you throw the jab.

He said: listen, here’s the thing! You got short arms.

Everyone, you’re, gon na fight, has got longer arms.

You don’t necessarily have to hit the guy in the chin.

You can hit him in the belly, but if you can’t do either hit him in the arms hurt his arms hit him in the hips hit him in the elbows.

You know hit him in the throat and marciano did that marciano did damage wherever he landed.

A punch he broke guys arms, he broke their forearms, he broke their elbows, he had very heavy hands and whenever he hit you, it hurt, and so what happened with marciano was he not only not only was was um goldman showing him.

The ins and outs of the sport and training him marciano was in phenomenal shape.

You know last night watching the the fight between javier fortuna and and ryan garcia.

They were saying how the guys had you know five six weeks to train marciano trained six months.

Martin would train up to 24 weeks for a fight.

I mean that’s incredible.

He’D run 20 miles a day, seven days a week that that that just doesn’t happen anymore.

Marciano would get into a pool with water up to his chin and throw punches, and he got to throw punches so quickly in water.

He could throw them as quickly and water as he could in the ring, and that was all charlie, goldman’s idea.

Marciano.

When you see guys sitting there doing, sit-ups marciano would do 10 or 15 000 at a time 10 or 15 000 push-ups at a time every single day, and so when marciano got in the ring, he could have gone 50 rounds.

He he his balance was greatly improved.

He had a granite chin, he had a tendency to swell in the cut, but he just was impervious to it.

He he just he was smart enough to listen to goldman and goldman, took him all the way to being one of the all-time great world heavyweight champions on his way up, he had some really good fights.

He fought a guy named carmine vingo, who he almost killed.

Bingo suffered severe brain damage and marciano was really upset and prayed for him.

Every day went to church, but vingo survived.

He fought a guy named rolando starza, who went on to be an actor, and the stars was a great stick and move fighter, but but um marciano caught up with him and when he caught up with them.

That was it like.

So the biggest fight marciano had before he had a world title shot.

It was against his idol and hero joe lewis, marciano adored, joe lewis, and in fact, in the training camp for the fight.

Someone had made a mistake of using the n-word to refer to joe lewis.

It was a reporter and marciano hit him marciano, he loved lewis, and he didn’t want to fight lewis and charlie goldman said you have to beat lewis to get a shot at the title and in the first couple rounds, marciano’s tentative, while he’s fighting lewis, charlie goldman, Sat him down and said: listen if the fight goes 15 rounds, and i know how much you love him: you’re, torturing, him you’re, just torturing him every round.

He can’t take this and you’re gon na, let it last you’re gon na torture, him more! Just get him out of there quick, let’s end his agony, and so he drops him in the fifth or sixth round and then the eighth round that horrible scene, where he knocks lewis through the ropes marciano, couldn’t look.

He was crying so hard.

He turned angela dundee told me: everyone in the gardens was crying that night, but lewis said years later, because people would say you know if he fought a young louis, he would have louis would have killed him right because because lewis would have been 22 and marciano Would have been 13.

so yeah? Of course he would have killed him, but lewis said on at marciano’s funeral that in 1969 he said on my best night, which was when i knocked out max schmelly.

I couldn’t have beaten rocky marciano, he’s too quick, too strong, and just too tough and marciano didn’t let you breathe.

He got right on top of you and he just kept punching away.

So the fight between lewis or between marciano walcott is set up.

Marciano is a slight favorite going and walcott said wildcat.

Had the predominant view of marciano he’s saying: listen, marciano’s! Basically, you know uh an amateur he’s, a good he’s, a pretty good amateur, but he doesn’t have the skill of a professional fighter.

Now marciano’s record ended up being 49-0.

It wasn’t: marciano lost a fight to a guy named a black fighter named tiger ted lowry, and what happened was lowry hit him in the solar plexus marciano’s knee came up and hit lowry under his protective cup, lowry went down and marciano was disqualified overnight.

The mob changes the fight from a disqualification to a no contest later in the night it becomes a draw and then the next day it becomes a win for marciano and that’s how the mob worked.

Martian was managed by alwyl was controlled by the mob.

Al weil knew very little about boxing, but alwyl uh saw marciano and he signed an illegal contract.

Marcial didn’t know better.

The state law said that in new york, if you’re a manager, you could only take 10 to 15 percent.

He had a 50-50 contract for marciano for life and marciano when he signed it thought.

Well, probably nothing will work out in boxing.

So what do i care? You know i’ll, have two fights i’ll get very little money and then he’ll he’ll get his 50 of nothing.

Didn’T work out that way, so marciano’s money started to go up and up and up and up and up – and you see i watched this fight yesterday by the way the marciano wildcat fight, you would think charlie goldman his trainer, who taught him everything is in the Ring with him, but it’s al wild, giving him this advice and martian is not even looking at him he’s just looking to the side to goldman and finally, goldman gets while out of the ring and takes over while, while he’s standing outside the ropes is bothering referee, Charlie dagger watch his elbows and watch this and watch that and dagger says you can hear on the tape just shut up al and go back to your corner because walcott was a clean fighter.

Marciano caught guys with elbows and low blows, not deliberately mind you, but you know when you push down on a guy he’s, throwing a punch, that’s what happens and marciano.

You know this was a war.

He went in to win and he didn’t deliberately foul people, but he did foul people and that’s what happens in the sport of boxing.

So when the fight starts out, uh marciano comes out and he’s in his crouch and um.

You know they’re they’re, filling each other out at the beginning of the fight and walcott catches.

Him uh with the left hand and drops marciano he’d never been dropped before in his life and he was smart because you know goldman’s yelling, take a cow, take a count and he’s he’s takes a five count.

He gets up, but you can see you know when he pounds his fist on a canvas he’s angry at himself and he gets up and wonka really goes after him and walcott’s 6-1 and he’s coming at almost 200 pounds.

So he’s a bigger man he’s able to physically move marciano and shove him around the ring and he’s really landing.

Some great shots.

Excuse me on rocky marciano, but marciano’s able to take those shots.

So when the round ends, marciano goes to the corner and golden says to him: look, he looks in his eyes and says rocky.

We can’t go into the past that round’s done.

He knocked you down.

You got to forget about it.

New fight starts round.

Two marciano is professional enough to understand that, so the fight progresses around two around three around four and after third fourth round golden said.

Listen he’s just he’s a slick guy.

He knows what he’s doing don’t go for his head hit him on the arms.

You know him in his elbows hit him in the neck, hit him in the stomach and that’s what he starts doing and walcott when he gets close ties him up, but marciano’s hitting with uppercuts he’s pounding his arms and his elbows he’s hitting him in the stomach.

He’S hitting him in the lip you know left hook to the liver and he’s doing a smart thing.

That goldman taught him he’s getting in close and he’s pushing his head up on the taller man forcing walcott’s chin to go up, and so marcena can take a step back, throw a shot in the hip walker on the chin and while marciano is missing a lot Of shots but he’s also docking a lot of shots from all car, but when he does land two three in a row from walcott wildcat feels it both guys are landing titanic shots moving each other back and we get to the fourth fifth.

Sixth, seventh round mars.

Sandals got cuts in his scalp and he’s bleeding he’s bleeding from inside his mouth.

His eyes are starting to swell badly he’s got a cut in his nose.

His nose is bleeding walcott’s got to cut over his left eye, but when you go back and look at the corners, you see a wall caught in the corner and he’s he.

You know he’s trying to get his air mark sandals not doing that martial’s.

Just very calm he’s talking to charlie goldman takes a drink of water he’s in he could go another 45 rounds if he had to he’s in phenomenal shape, and so the fight keeps going on and and they keep pounding at each other, just vicious shots and wildcats.

Trying to sucker him in he’s trying to hold him he’s pushing his head down he’s doing all these dipsy doodle moves and what you know he’s landing furiously on on marciano, a lot of shots, he’s pounding marciano’s face into a swollen, bloody mask and and walcott’s taking A beating too so the thing is this was an important fight.

Why was this an important fight? Well, marciano’s, friends and family members have bet everything on marciano to win.

I mean i mean everything i mean their houses, every cent they own if marciano loses everyone that knew him and loved him and his family would be wiped out.

He had to win now the interesting thing about this night, the night of the fight september 23rd, 1952.

At that same moment that this fight is going on here in toronto, at massey hall is occurring.

What was called and has been called since that night, the greatest jazz concert of all time on stage and i’m going to tie this together in a sec at massey hall, you had charlie parker greatest jazz musician ever along with dizzy gillespie trumpeter charlie was an also Saxophonist you had charles mingus, the bassist, who was taping it for his his record label, debut because there was a record strike going on in new york.

Although the concert was in toronto and the great penis, but pal massey hall was half full people, they it sold out, but only 50 of the people showed up.

Why? Because they were all watching the fight closed circuit at other venues in toronto.

Everyone had to see what happened in this fight.

Everyone wanted to see if marciano could actually overcome wall cup and the musicians themselves were asking people in between songs.

What’S going on in the fight, does anyone know what’s going on in the fight to joe winning and the fight goes on eighth round ninth round tenth round and mars? Santa is still bullying him up.

You know he’s building him against the ropes he’s he’s using his forearms to hold him there.

His shoulders he’s pounding his body pounding his arms walcott’s in a lot of pain.

You know he’s his arms are hurting he’s having trouble, bringing them up a lot of times.

Walcott’S against ropes, with his hands down and he’s just you know, he’s just uh sticking moving with him with uh marciano he’s just moving his head and and trying to avoid him that way, because his arms are so heavy at this point for marciano pounding on them.

For 10 rounds and after 9th 10th round goldman said to him – and this happened in the first round – you saw it right away.

Goldman says to rocky says: listen to me when he moves back from the clinch, he’ll stop and he’ll throw a right hand, but he’s going to bring his right hand back he’s not going to throw it straight.

So what you got to do you have to when he, when he plants his feet, don’t let him get the shot off, throw your right hand right away the minute he stops, throw your right hand and mars sandals.

Looking for the opportunity he’s hitting him good shots, clean and chin in the head, he’s hitting him in the body he’s hitting him all over he’s pounding him, but at this point in the fight after the 12th round, walcott’s ahead he’s clearly ahead in all three judges.

Scorecards, in fact, one of the judges was zach clayton, who went on to referee, the fight between muhammad ali and george foreman, many years later in zaire.

Now the belgian congo so walcott’s comfortably ahead and in his corner his trainer, the great dan florio, was saying to him nine minutes.

That’S it nine minutes, stay away, don’t stand there and slug with him and walk out i’m trying to stay away, but he’s not letting me you know, marciano keeps cutting the ring off.

He keeps forcing the issue walcott’s just trying to get away from him and trying to land good shots to deter marciano from trying to kill him and 13-round 13th round starts, and you know they’re.

They they come together.

The fighting referee breaks them up and marciano is following walcott and walcott’s.

Moving back he’s five six feet: marciano closes the distance, walk up plants his feet and as he plants his feet, you see him moving his right arm back and then marciano just like he was topped by goldman.

He doesn’t pull his arm back.

He just pivots at the hip and his shoulder straight right hand hits walcott clearly on on the uh left side of his face.

It was the hardest single punch, i’ve ever seen in my life, and they call it the hardest punch of all time.

It was the most perfect right hand ever and it dropped all cut marciano as walcott’s hanging on the ropes walks by sort of hit some a follow-up, a light follow-up shot with the left hand, but it didn’t really matter.

I mean, i think, if you went to municipal stadium today in philadelphia, wildcat would still be there on the campus that was a crushing knockout punch and, and that was it and after the fight they they um.

You know they interviewed marciano and they couldn’t interview walcott.

He was out for a long time and marciano said i i thought i was getting to him.

I mean he could really fight he’s a great fighter and i i take my hat off to him uh, but he said i could tell my punchers were getting to him and he could tell that he was really starting to put a beating on walcott, but charlie Goldman said you’re running out of rounds rocky you got to get them out, because if you don’t get them out, you lose the decision and a guy like you as tough as you are they’re not going to give you another chance.

So you got to do it now, so you’re not smoke, he’s the undisputed world heavyweight champion they fight again.

A year later, people think walcott took a dive, hard to say: walcott got hit with a good overhand right early in the first round.

He went down on his back, shook his head and just stayed there on the canvas in a sitting position and he never, he never got up and he never fought again.

Marciano had several more title: defenses.

He beat ezra charles twice in one of the fights.

Charles split his nose completely in half, you can see it on youtube.

You can see a picture of it, even if you, google, it and the referee said, if you don’t knock him out the next round the fight’s over.

I can’t let it continue.

You don’t have a nose and he went out and he knocked uh.

Well, he knocked down ezra charles.

He had to do it, otherwise he would have lost his title and he also, i think, in his last fight fought archie moore, the greatest knockout fighter of all time.

Unbelievably great light heavyweight world champion who would have held the belt for almost 25 years.

Had the racism and boxing not been so vile and pervasive and had the mob left him alone, he had to wait 12 years to get a title shot.

You know he’s in his mid 40s when he’s fighting marciano.

He still drops marciano in the fifth round and marciano was hurt and marciano gets up and the referees does the count and and more moves in and the referee stops and more like tries to move his armory okay fights on no stop rocky.

Are you all right? He’S taking time away from moore to make sure rocky marciano is all right which was frustrating to archie moore, and so he retires.

Now what really upset rocky marciano is all.

During his career, there were two things he had a chronically bad back, but because al wow would not let him renegotiate his contract, he said, listen, we’re making a fortune, you know 50 50, isn’t fair new york state says he said.

Well then, take me to court and the mob wouldn’t have allowed rocky to go to court.

That’S just the way it was so rocky just said to ow wow: listen! You got to make it 51.

49 for me, 55.

45.

For me, it can’t be 50 50.

and while i said that, i’m not going to change the contract, i don’t have to you didn’t sign it under duress.

Now, looking back on it, lawyers today that i’ve spoken with said that they could have gone to court and in a day the contract would have been thrown out and he could have got rid of owl wow.

Why didn’t he do it? I don’t know, but he quit, he said to hell with you a while.

He also had a bad back and he’d had enough and he got out at the right time.

The thing about that was, he had his money, but because he couldn’t he didn’t get the contract without, while annald everything after he retired every speaking engagement.

Every exhibition, you know uh every job he had as a play-by-play guy.

He did stuff for spalding uh sporting goods had to be paid in cash because you can’t trace cash, so marciano would say to people.

You know if they’d give him a check for a speaking engagement, he’d say: what’s this, i can’t use this had to be cash.

How wild couldn’t do that couldn’t take it from him out wow, because he quit promoting him or madison square garden to run uh marciano’s career now that he lost his golden goose, the mob says: you’re done all the fighters that screw that he’d screwed over that he Called for money, they just hung up on them, because albion was such a nefarious, vile character in boxing history and gone up his way to screw fighters, especially canadian, sami love spring, who was number one rated welterweight in the world at that time, so uh.

In the theory so marciano, you know after retires, he he’s making appearances and uh angel dundee told me that marciano, when he went up to eat for dinner with people didn’t fight him for dinner.

He never would pick up the check, but they said he said when the check came.

His arm would shrink six inches so the way marciana looked at it and i didn’t see anything wrong with it.

But the way marciano looked at it was i’m the former undisputed world heavyweight champion, i’m an all-time great you’re, getting a chance to go out with me.

Uh have dinner, so you know what you should be paying for gon na come out and say that, but that was rocky marciano in fact, there’s a story about when he came uh to toronto.

To give a speech – and someone had got him a lady of the evening in a hotel room and they set it up.

I heard it’s from a mob guy and he goes up in the room and he spends the night with the lady of the evening and next morning he goes to the airport to go home and they asked the lady of the evening.

What was he like? Was he polite? Yes, was he a gentleman absolutely, but he had so.

He was a nice guy yeah except one thing.

What’S that he borrowed fifty dollars from me, so he could get a cab to go to the airport.

Rocky marciano had been with this prostitute borrowed money from the prostitute that was already paid for by the mob, so he could get to the airport and rocky didn’t trust banks.

So he buried his money in in his backyard different places, and he also put it in banks under assumed names.

So when he died, no one found his money.

His money’s still out there, just no one has found it yet.

So marciano became very close friends of jersey, joe walcott after um wildcard retired, and got a job as a sheriff in camden new jersey.

He refereed the second uh list in ali fight, which he made a mockery of he just he wasn’t good at that, but but he did appear in movies.

He appeared in my favorite boxing movie next to cinderella, man which i was in.

He appeared in the heart of the fall, the story of primo carnera and uh.

He knew carter and he he played the trainer.

So he was great in that very kind person never had the privilege of of meeting him, but i’ve never heard anything ever bad about walcott.

Angela would tell me he was just assaulted here, just the kindest person you could possibly meet and rocky when he would get speaking engagements.

He knew that walcott and lewis would need the money so he’d give it to them.

He’D say to the booker, give it to joe walcott or give it to joe lewis.

One time marciano went to visit louis after lewis had had a nervous breakdown and because lewis was indigent, they kept them in a service closet in the hospital and marciano had to be held back from killing the the person who ran the hospital, the administrator.

He said you know this is this is the greatest athlete that ever lived? You can’t do that to joe lewis and he paid for lewis to get the best room in the hospital uh.

He loved lewis, and one thing i’ll give my channel credit for, of course, is the fact that you can go on youtube now and you can see him with howard, crossell jimmy cannon and jack dempsey when ally knocks listing out in the second fight.

Jimmy cannon said this was a fix from the beginning and jack dempsey said.

Well, i mean you know, didn’t look like a guy that big you get hurt by that a punch like that, but it was marciano and said: listen we weren’t the one taking the punch.

You know he hit him high on the head that discombobulates you, you know that happens.

Archimore did that to me.

He hit him with that that that right hand and listen shoulders shook so it looked like a good punch.

Only listen knows how hard it hit him.

So you know that was a very good point.

Marciano was making speaking engagements all over the country and in the late 60s after allied had his title stolen from him.

He did that, though, those uh video fights with him the computer generator fight where, if you’re from the south, they have marciano winning if you’re from from uh the northern states, the other alley winning um people didn’t think marciano would get to get would like ali, but They ended up becoming good friends, because, los angeles said they had a lot in common, both undisputed world heavyweight champions.

You know both minorities and both were heavyweights.

They had stuff, they could talk about.

The thing ali said after of course, was rocky, had lost 75 pounds to get in shape had a toupee, but he said when you watch the computer.

Fights he’s really hitting me in the stomach produce times where ally would say, cut the film rocky.

It’S a computer fight you’re, not really punching me, but he said i i just can’t sorry, that’s just the way i am.

I can’t pull my punches so at that point uh, you know, martian is getting money from all sorts of different sources.

He helped george chavallo train.

He didn’t.

He really did nothing more than you know, take her over on government’s money and enjoyed the food, but um it was his trainer, charlie goldman, who actually turned georgetown’s career around, told him to stop throwing punches out the window and to throw him straight, and he did The same exercises with george that he did with marciano and then george’s.

You know, knockout ratio went way up, so marciano is uh still doing everything by cash by the late 1960s and he wants to get home for his birthday.

And what happens? Is he charters an airplane from a kid who can’t fly at night, but he said go ahead and try and of course the plane, crashes and marciano was killed, all the great fighters walcott lewis ali – they were all at his funeral, they were crestfallen, i mean they Love the guy, you know rocky was a true fighter and he was part of that brotherhood and they all looked up for each other he’s one of the all-time greatest fighters uh.

You can never count them out of a fight, because a guy that can punch that hard is in every fight.

It’S not the size of the of the uh dog in the fight.

It’S the size of the fight and the dog, and no one in boxing history had more fight in him than rocky marciano jersey, joe walcott.

Actually, you know lived a lot longer and he lived to 1994.

.

He uh ended up, as i said, being a sheriff in camden.

He uh made a lot of special appearances.

He was at one time the oldest one of the oldest world uh heavyweight champion still living max schmeling held that title, but um walcott helped out youth.

All the time he was always there for people, and he had great things to say about uh about rocky marciano.

It was a golden era.

In boxing from the time joe lewis took the title to the time: marciano retired, when marciana retired uh, it was archie moore versus floyd, patterson and patterson won, and there was not another golden era to our league took over, but those guys marciano walcott that fight’s an Epic fight, because, unlike a lot of heavyweight fights, there were a lot of ebbs and flows in it and there’s a point where you think walcott could stop him here, but marciano hangs on martial knew he had to get low and get under walcott’s reach and bang Him to the body walcott knew he had to use his reach and keep moving and keep turning uh uh marciano.

This is something i don’t understand when i watch recent fights on tv last night or in the past couple of years, but a referee’ll say to a fighter, stop turning him.

Turning a guy is part of the sport.

It’S a strategy, that’s what you want to do with a slugger like marciano.

You want to keep moving them around.

You want to keep turning and keep them off.

Balance and walcott knew that what you had was you had a huge tsunami and a levy, and eventually the tsunami was going to break through the levee.

The levee was well caught, the tsunami was marciano, something had to give and what gave was walcott’s chin.

You can’t fault him for going down because next to the left hook that sugar ray robinson knocked out gene formal with that’s the greatest.

In my in my opinion, that’s the single greatest punch, i’ve ever seen.

I mean it just started, wildcards features and i’m you know angela who’s.

There said he thought he killed him.

His wall cut was down and just collapsed and didn’t move for a good half hour.

I mean he was really out and that’s the way it was back.

Then, on september 23rd 1952, this is one of the all-time great fights.

You can actually get this fight on youtube and you can watch every round so do that, because, before the fight, the introduce all these great fighters from the 1920s guys you’ve read about lefty lou tendler former world champion benny bass and all these other great fighters.

Gene gene tony and you see them and you’re thinking wow there.

They are live on on tv and uh.

It’S a fantastic fight.

It still holds up today.

So if you want to have a great treat this weekend, go to youtube click it on get marciano walcott.

One sit back, get a beer and enjoy it because you’re in for the fight of your life, it was a magnificent, magnificent bub.

I hope you enjoyed this episode of ring talk, i’m lou eisen and we will see you again next sunday at 2pm enjoy the rest of your weekend.