AIR DATE:
EPISODE: Episode 11
This week I’d like to talk about the February 14th, 1951 world middleweight title fight between champion Jake LaMotta and challenger Sugar Ray Robinson.
Discussing the greatest boxing controversies throughout history, Lou Eisen offers his opinions and insights in this fantastic live-streamed series of episodes. Watch live on TalkinFight.com every Sunday at 2pm ET.
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Transcribed:
[ Music, ] hi good afternoon, i’m lou eisen, and welcome to ring talk today we’re going to talk about one of the most exciting controversial.
I mean it wasn’t controversial in the sense that something bad happened.
People disagreed with it was just an incredible fight.
It was the 1951 february 14th fight between world war, middleweight champion jake lamotta, the bronze ball against sugar, ray robinson, the former world welterweight champion, and this is a phenomenal fight, uh 13 rounds.
Both these men gave it throughout.
This was the sixth time they had met during their careers, lamar used to say i thought sugary robinson so many times it’s a wonder.
I didn’t get diabetes and uh.
They were friends after not before, but um.
These were two opposing forces.
You had robinson who was really the prototype for muhammad ali, the slick, stick and move fighter who had tremendous power in both hands, and then you had the bronx ball.
Who was a walk-in slugger but had more skill, technical skill than he was given credit for? And he had a tremendous chin and granite chin, which he showed that night also lamada in 106 career fights.
He only got dropped once in its second last fight at light heavyweight by a guy named danny article.
Lamanna said it wasn’t a knock down, but when you watched the film he got hit with the right hand, he was exhausted.
He went down so this fight was robinson’s uh first crack at the world middleweight title robson previously had beaten, tommy bell for the world welterweight title and tommy bell, as angela dundee told me, is one of those great african-american fighters that never got the proper respect or Is due because of the racism amongst the sports writers and in the sport at that time, so you have uh ray robinson, who was born walker smith, jr in georgia and then moved to detroit to the black bottom area and then, when his parents got divorced, moved To new york city at the age of 11 moved to harlem, and this was sort of the talent of the harlem renaissance and uh robinson was out in the street every day playing.
He got part of gangs got into trouble.
He was incredibly athletic.
He would earn money by tap dancing for people robinson had an ability.
Some people have this.
I don’t uh to pick things up immediately.
You could show him something physically, how to do something like tap dancing or how to do a certain move in boxing, and he could do it.
He could just imitate you and do it perfectly not everyone can do that some boxers can, but it takes a while robinson is considered uh.
The consensus pick for the greatest fighter ever to have lived pound for pound, and it’s important that we explain that phrase uh.
The phrase pound for pound today you see, for instance, the other week they said archer bitter biab deserves to be on the pound for pound list and he does.
But the phrase pound for pound was invented specifically for sugar, ray robinson and what it means is if all weights were relative or equivalent in value, he be the greatest fighter on the planet and he was without a doubt.
He just did so many things well in the ring.
Now when i asked angela dundee my mentor, who i mentioned a lot, who was the greatest fighter pound for pound? He said willie pep because he thought pep did more things well inside the squared circle than any other fighter.
He’D ever seen anyways.
So you have.
You have sugary robinson he’s growing up and uh he’s getting into trouble.
He goes by a gym one day.
Here’S the sights caesar sights hears.
The sounds goes in smells the smells of a boxing gym and he’s loving.
What’S going on, you know he’s 13 14 and he starts he wants to get involved and he speaks to the guy running it.
George gainford, who has him, join his club and robinson, i don’t think ever lost as an amateur.
Of course, it’s important to remember a lot of people when they speak about chivalry robinson.
They give all the credit to george gainford gainford was not his trainer.
His trainer was the immortal harry wiley, who belongs in the international boxing hall of fame.
Harry wiley was one of the top several great boxing trainers of all time.
He also went on to help train muhammad ali um.
Angela dundee brought him in for some polishing at the end of halley’s training camps.
So all the stuff you saw sugary robinson doing the ring as a pro that was all harry wiley, especially especially this spectacular knockout against gene fulmer when he re-won in the rematch.
He won uh the middleweight title again: former had a habit of crouching and getting into robinson’s face robinson was 511 long arms.
He needed room to punch and foamer smartly didn’t do that.
Foamer would just get inside wrestle him rough him up and so uh harry wiley said push him off after a clinch which he did step back six seven feet across the ring and then use his own momentum against him when he rushes your head first, and he Did and he hit him with the left hand, knocked foam around completely.
It was known as the perfect punch, so this fight with jake lamotta.
The motto was a hard luck story.
I was very privileged to get to know jake lamotta.
When i would go to boxing hall of fame.
I would sit between him and angela dundee on saturday nights at the at the wine party before the actual uh banquet in syracuse.
The uh cocktail party was at uh, it was in canestota, and so i got to know him.
He was married again and i think he was married seven times, lamotta had several kids robinson fathered, a kid when he was 16.
He was married at 16 deforest at 19.
.
Lamada had two sons, i think, and a daughter and both sons died and one son died of cancer.
When he’s much older, the other son died in that airplane crash over newfoundland in um, i think 83-84, but he had a third son with his seventh wife.
Uh lamada grew up in the bronx.
By his own admission he was a tough, tough guy.
You know what he said to me when i was speaking to him one time at the cocktail party he said, did you ever see raging bull? I said, of course i saw raging bull.
You know what a great movie he said.
It wasn’t true, and i said what do you mean it wasn’t true and he said well.
First off i was much much much worse to my wife vicki than they ever showed in the movie said, there were three things that weren’t true, second of all, never beat up.
My brother joey never didn’t get along with him.
He said i love my brother.
We never fought once in fact we lived beside each other in florida and condos adjoining condos for the last 40 years.
Also.
He said i never said to sugar ray robinson.
You never knocked me down ray.
He said because when that fight the sixth and final fight which we’re talking about today was stalked, he said my nose is broken.
My lips were shredded, teeth, knocked out blood pouring from my mouth and my nose and over my eyes he said i you know i’m broken rib i couldn’t, i could barely breathe.
He hit me in the adam’s apple so many times he said so.
I had to be helped to my corner.
I never said to him, you didn’t knock me down.
I couldn’t say i couldn’t even say help to my own training staff.
Lamont is coming up his father, who was a a former prize fighter, but his father didn’t pursue his dreams and always regretted it.
Lamada was matched with his brother, joey and other neighborhood kids growing up, but his father would fight for money and when he didn’t want to fight his father, would slap him and lamanna by his own mission was an animal.
I mean he, you know he went to jail or juvenile detention when he was young for armed robbery, beat people up knocked a guy out with a pipe and stole his money and later on the guy after lamato and the middleweight title came proud.
He was of him and lamato was in tears because he thought he had killed the guy and gotten away with it and realized the guy had lived and lamato was a real brute at that point.
But you know he was self-managed, and this was a time when they had in boxing.
You know the mob was in firm control and they kept saying to him you’re, not getting a title shot until you get into bed with us and lamata said i, you know, i’d sooner kill you to get in the bed with them.
Lamata had never had any fear of the mob, and when i asked him why i said why weren’t you afraid of the mob, he said well for one big reason i was stupid.
I didn’t know enough to be afraid of them and he admitted that as much at the 1960 kfafer hearings.
So lamada is fighting.
You know, he’s he’s getting decisions, he was the first guy, i think in 40 fights 45 fights to beat ray robinson in their second fight.
When robinson, moved up to middleweight beat lamotto and the lamotta wasn’t champ yet and then uh.
They fought a second time that was in new york.
Second time in detroit.
Lamada beats him.
He probably beat him the third time too a couple weeks later, but they gave that to robinson lamoni’s beating everyone he can beat, but he’s not getting a shot at the title and it’s killing him because you know he starts boxing professionally in 41 and the way He fights his style, you know like arturo gotti was a really good technical fighter.
He just didn’t want to do that.
You’D hit him and he wanted to hit you back right away.
He became a slugger, so lamato couldn’t get the fights he wanted and he would fight people and he was beating people all over the board, all over the country that were good fighters, but he still couldn’t get a title shot.
So his brother, joey and him went to see uh blinky, palermo and frankie carbo, who ran boxing, and these were two of the most vile evil.
Vicious uh amoral cretans that ever came across boxing.
Just vicious people who stole money from fighters, fans promoters killed a lot of people in the sport who didn’t exceed to their whims.
So he said how did i get a title shot? This is 1946.
and that’s important.
They said this is what we’ll do you get? A title shot if you take a dive against billy fox blackjack, billy fox, was a light heavyweight now lamada, although he was five, eight would fight light heavyweights and heavyweights.
He would balloon up and wait, but he was so strong that he, you know i’ll fight.
Anybody anywhere anytime, that’s what he said and fox had won.
I think his first 36 fights mostly by knockout, if not all, by knockout but they’re all fixes – and this is the thing one thing the mob – never understood when you had a great fighter like lamada fighting.
Essentially, not too talented a fighter like fox everyone knew lamotta would kill him, and so, when you have a guy like that, uh and you fixed a fight, so the lesser guy wins the audience isn’t stupid.
The papers aren’t stupid.
You just hurt the sport and lamada.
Didn’T want to do this, but he had to get a shot at the title in 210.
In 2010 he told me at the hall of fame.
He said you know what lou i’d do it again.
I would do it again because, if i didn’t, i wouldn’t have gotten a shot didn’t matter what the new york state athletic commission said or any athletic commission.
If the mob didn’t want to give you a shot, you weren’t going to get a shot.
It was as simple as that and i earned it.
I was the best middleweight.
He was known as the um crown world middleweight champion.
At that point he loses to fox in four rounds after the fight he said i had a ruptured spleen, not true.
He didn’t have a rupture spleen.
He could die from a ruptured spleen.
He just didn’t.
He didn’t fight back as those were the orders and the unbelievably the new york state, athletic commission said there was nothing fishy about it that they believed his doctor, so lamotta thrills.
The fight in 46.
, the sailing point here is he still had to wait three years.
That would drive me insane.
I mean i got ta wait another three year.
He waited three years to get a shot at the title in in the interim tony zell, who who’s who was one of the all-time great middleweight champions and the best body puncher ever to have lived.
Zale defended his title against graziano in their three fights won.
The first fight lost to second won, the third by knockout, defended against the great great french algerian marcel cernan, who was having very publicized romance, although he was married with the great french chanteuse edith, piaf and sir knocks out tony zell sudan’s, the champ and he’s a Great fighter he’s had 97 fights or something at this point lost one.
I mean he’s he’s incredibly gifted plus he’s a real gentleman lamada genuinely liked him so uh well uh.
I guess uh.
No.
I just want to answer one of the questions here.
No, you can get a film of sugar ray robinson at welterweight on youtube, look for sugar, ray robinson versus tommy bell, and that was the fight in which robinson won the world welterweight title.
So lamont is getting ready to fight sudan and they’re fighting in detroit and as they fight in the first round, they’re clinching they’re wrestling and they’re trying to get loose from each other and lamada throws them to the canvas.
Dislocates sudan’s left shoulder that’s the first round.
He can’t compare, he can’t lift his left arm now.
He still fights for another nine rounds into the tenth round and he just can’t come out.
He can’t do it anymore and he doesn’t complain said it was a fair fight.
The better man won shakes, lamotta’s hand, lamont is now the world champion and one of his heroes, joe lewis, puts the belt around his waist.
They sign for a rematch cernan, goes home to algeria to train coming back six months later, his plane crashes in the azores and he dies and it destroyed lamada emotionally for a while, because he genuinely likes sudan.
Boxing isn’t personal.
This was just business and he really liked him, and so he moves on now.
At this time, uh robinson has beaten all the welterweights.
You know he’s beaten, tommy bell, he’s beating all the other good welterweights around.
There he’s beating kid gavilan.
Another great welterweight just beat kid gavilan and they’re having all these wonderful, you know fights and robinson’s winning all these fights.
I mean after his second fight with lamar, which he lost.
He goes on like another 40, 50 fight winning streak.
You know robinson rarely lost until later on in his career, so he’s doing well and robinson, you know, he’s beating all these guys, his first four or five years, our first couple years, even in the sport, he beats future welterweight champion marty, cervo current lightweight champion, sami Angot and then he he destroys uh fritzi zivik, future welterweight, uh champ, so you know, or former or welterweight champ, so he’s beating all these guys, he’s beaten named guys and robinson is doing it easily, and so, after he’s beaten everyone he wants to make more money.
So he moves up to middleweight, he starts beating all the middleweights around and he fights lamada and he fought him at middleweight.
I think three times won all those fights and it wasn’t until 1951 february 14th, known as the same valentine’s day massacre where he steps up and he challenges the great jake lamotta for the world.
Middleweight title at the press conference robinson did to him what he did to basilio several years later.
Carmen basilio, which is he would drink, uh a cup of calf’s blood and offered it to lamanna who just looked at him like he was crazy, but he would do that just to psych out his opponent.
I don’t know if it had really any effect on lamada but um uh.
It was sort of an odd thing to see so they’re training – and you know, when ray robinson was growing up in detroit uh.
His two heroes were henry armstrong, who he beat.
You know as a welterweight, that’s another good fight to watch at welterweight armstrong versus robinson.
Although armstrong his way past his prime and his other hero was joe lewis, who was, i think, seven or eight years older than him, and he they always supported each other during the war second world war, uh lamotta was in jail for a lot of it and Robinson joined the army along with uh joe lewis, and got into fights in new jersey because of the racist times they were living in.
He was called the n-word quite a bit.
He just wouldn’t take.
It went down to georgia, where somebody called joe lewis, the n-word and lewis, because he had a tremendous stutter, wouldn’t approach, someone or fight them verbally lewis had connections in the state department in the government.
He would just go, make a phone call to someone.
He knew there who would who would call the army base and reprimand the general in charge and who would reprimand and eventually dishonorably discharge the two officers that were yelling these.
This racial abuse of robinson and jackie robinson, as well as sugary, robinson and joe lewis, robinson good editing army.
He said he felt on the flight of stairs.
Had amnesia didn’t know where he was someone found him on the street took him to a hospital.
Most people think he did that that that didn’t happen.
He just didn’t want to be in the army and it’s hard to blame him being called the n word 100 times a day every day by all these southern soldiers and northern soldiers, who were also americans – and he just didn’t want to do that – you don’t want To give up the money he was making but more, but that wasn’t the issue.
He didn’t want a racial abuse because he thought i’m not going to take this.
I’M going to keep fighting these guys.
Why am i fighting for my country when my own soldiers are attacking me and so, whereas joe lewis had gone to the state department and eventually got the boxing exhibitions and shows he put on to be integrated, but he did it through the back door.
So robinson gets out of the army and he’s he’s um he’s coming up and in his fights and uh you know his his ring debut was actually in 1940.
So now we’re looking at 46-47.
Doing very well eventually has to move up the middleweight uh jake lamotta at this time after he wins, the title still had exciting fights um.
He had fights middleweight fights before that, and some of them were questionable that he lost because he was fighting mob-controlled fighters audiences write it.
He fought a guy named jimmy reeves in detroit and was given a lost, a very controversial decision, which people believe was fixed.
Reeves won the second fight in the third fight lamar started and knocked him out fell face-first.
He was out.
Lamana just gave an angry look at the mobster sitting right inside i mean that was a dangerous thing to do back.
Then after lamada won the world title he had, he fought a non-title fight with robert villamond from france and lost lamotta always had trouble with his weight.
He he had to come in at 160 or 157.
You know these were same day weigh-ins and after each fight.
He would balloon up to 200 220 pounds.
He you know he had to starve himself.
One of the few things that was true in raging bull was he would go into the steam room for four five six hours and they might give one thin sliver to the size of your baby fingernail of ice.
And that was it because if you don’t lose the weight back, then you lose the title and you lose your purse you’re fighting for nothing, and that was another reason you didn’t want to get in the bed of the mob because they knew they would steal his Money, so i was remiss i didn’t mention the fact that when he fought sudan not only not only did he have to take a dive against billy fox three years earlier.
He also had to get 20 grand out of his title fight purse to the mob.
To assure that he got the sudan fight his uh next fight.
He beat.
He beats to barrio metri from uh from uh italy, which was a very good fight.
Mitchell was a very good fighter, so was villamon.
Then he fights one of the all-time great fighters.
Laurent o’tyl from france, who fought out of montreal for a short time – and this is a fight you have to watch because um when you watch this fight, it’s phenomenal because dotil just beats lamada every round and going he’s winning the fight and lamada’s exhausted lamada had A habit during his career of playing possum.
He would let the other guy hit him and hit him and hit him and go against your ropes.
He had his hands up drop his hands guy would come in to finish him.
Lamotta would duck under it and do what julio cesar chavez did.
The better table spin off the ropes and then catch the guy with a good shot and then finish him off.
So there’s less than 20 seconds to go detail is way ahead in the cart 20 seconds he’s the undisputed world middleweight champ and he lamana lets him hit him and then lamar spins off the ropes.
He was playing.
Possum catches him with a left right combination.
Detail is staggered: he he stumbles to the side ropes where lamata finishes them off and fight stop with 13 seconds to go and the mana know he got he.
He knew he got away with the lucky victory there.
I mean he earned it.
It was a legitimate victory, but he was desperate to pull something off because he was going to lose at that point.
Sugary robinson, who was at the fight thought he can’t make middleweight anymore, and i always thought lamottas is just my opinion.
Probably would have been better served as a light heavyweight except the world champion then was archie moore and that would have been a hard hard road decline.
So they have this fight in 1951 and they’re, both ready for it february 14, 1951 and in chicago stadium and they’re going at it and the first two three four rounds.
You know la mata looks good he’s getting shots in on robinson, he’s cornering him against the ropes he’s hitting him in the chin, he’s pounding his body, but lamar’s really struggled to make weight for this fight.
I mean it was really that right down to the last.
Second, he had to sweat off each pound and robinson came in.
I think at 157 158 lamotta was 160 right on the nose and then went home.
Then the rest of the day engorged himself because he was weak.
Lamata came into the fight dehydrated because not to take away from ray robinson’s victory, but because he sweated so much to lose weight on the day of the fight.
First, three: four: five rounds: you know it’s a pretty even fight and then sixth round after the sixth round, where robinson was moving and hitting lamada coming in, hitting him to the body and out muscling him.
Lamata comes back to the corner and he’s breathing really heavily he’s having a hard time breathing catching his breath as the fight progresses robinson starts, landing more shots on him and he’s landing four five: six punch combinations and he’s fighting him in a smart manner he’s using His his prohibitive arm reach arm advantage to or reach advantage, excuse me to just beat the hell out of la mata, except for the fact that lamonic can take a hell of a punch and lamada is so tired in the seventh eighth rounds and later on.
He can’t get his hands up to block the shots, he’s just taking him flush on the head and on the gym, but he’s still coming forward and there’s a time in the fight.
Eighth, ninth tenth round he’s actually almost turned sideways to robinson and leaning back to somehow try to mitigate robinson’s shots, but robinson can’t miss and robinson gets a bit winded at times, but he’s in such superb condition.
He just pours it on and he just keeps whacking.
Lamada and he’s winning round after round after round – and the question of course is of this – is how much can lamoda take the the ringside announcer don dunphy is saying you know: lamont is taking a hell of a beating here and uh, but he’s showing the heart And courage of a champion – and he is but he’s taking a hell of a whooping and robinson, keeps coming after him and robinson’s trainer harry wiley said to him just keep at it.
Just keep cutting him down.
He kept hitting him in the stomach and the solar plexus kept hitting him in the liver hitting him in into the body on the right and left side, and he did that because excuse me, he thought you know, kill the body the head will die, lamanna won’t Be able to move he’s taking away his mobility and lamana couldn’t move away from his punches and it’s kind of horrific to watch from the ninth and tenth round on.
I mean you’re mesmerized by the skill of ray robinson, but at the same time, you’re also just in awe of how much punishment jake lamotta can take – and you know lamada is – is doing his best, but 10 11 12 he’s exhausted, he’s just trying to catch his Breath and the referee frank zecor is watching them go at it and uh lamontagne’s trainer.
Al silvani is giving him advice and keep saying to him.
Do you want to you know, do you want me to stop it? You want to quit.
No! No.
If i go out, i go out in my shield, you know i’m gon na i’m gon na win or die and he keeps going out and in the fatal 13th round.
He goes out one time too many and they’re slugging it out and he gets robbed.
He gets lamont against the far ropes and he lands 15 20 25 30 shots to lamada’s head he’s, just pounding it and armada’s splayed out across the ropes i mean he he can’t breathe.
He can’t get his arms to throw a punch, let alone block a punch and the referee zecora moves in and stops the fight at which point al silvani and joey lamotta come in and grab lamada and take him to his corner and robinson is now the new Undisputed world middleweight champion – and the thing about that is of course lamotta was never the same.
That was his last big fight.
He fought on after that, but he wasn’t the same.
He was losing to to lesser guys and um.
He was just phenomenal and uh, but he had outlived.
You know guys, like lamotta, had a short time span.
You have to understand that he started in 41 but 52.
He was done when he won the title.
He was past his prime.
He lost advantage article and then he lost to billy kilgore and he called it.
A career robinson still had a lot of his career left.
You know he still fought on for another 14 years and um.
Yes, i agree if you know that the best body punches are mccallum arguello chavez, joe frazier, leonard hearns and duran, but there were guys long before them who were known as phenomenal body punchers and the best one was considered to be tony zl.
Tony’S l broke guys.
Ribs tommy zell won a lot of knockouts with uh with body shots, as did lamada, as did jack dempsey.
You know this was this: is an art form you know, killing the body the head will die.
That goes back 300 years, so there were a lot of great fighters in the 30s 40s two numbers to mention joe lewis was a phenomenal body.
Puncher so was jersey, joe walker, so robinson wins the title and he goes on a tour robinson’s world famous.
Now he’s got his pink cadillac he’s got the beautiful bars sugar rays and harlem he’s got all he’s, got dozens of stores in harlem that he owns and he goes on.
A world tour takes his cadillac.
He takes his little person has to call them now who who was sort of his valet.
He has his own.
He has a guy who just only job is tacoma’s heir.
That was it.
He takes his whole entourages cook goes to england fights all these guys beats them loses to the brit.
Randy turpin uh in a very close fight, robinson, wasn’t in shape, comes back to new york 69 days later, knocks out turpin uh, i think in the uh 12th.
13Th round regains the title robinson won and lost the title five times so uh robinson keeps fighting.
The mob keeps applying pressure to him to get into bed with them.
He won’t do it.
So at this point he just says to the mob.
You know i’m tired of this.
I’M done i’m the biggest draw in sport, i’m the one that gets all the money for me and everyone else and you still benefit because you control together fighter you’re not going to leave me alone.
You can have the sport to yourself and he quits, and he goes in the show business for three years.
He does a tap dancing singing act at the beginning.
There’S some interest, but you know he’s not really that good at it and their interest wanes.
And then you know he finds out that his businesses are broke because he put friends and relatives in charge to run them and he has to get back in the ring.
At that point he doesn’t have the leverage he had before in his first fight back.
He loses to ralph tiger jones was a really good fighter.
So what happens then is he has to make a deal with james d, norris, head of the international boxing club and the mob, and there’s no evidence that the mob fixed any of his fights? What they did is they helped them get these fights and if decisions were closed, they sort of shaded it.
The judges shaded it for robinson, not saying he didn’t actually win, but there were some close ones where you know it could have gone the other way.
Uh long before this, he thought the great fighter managed by chris dundee george freedom abrams truth fighter.
They fought his middleweights and abrams.
Most likely beat him, but the judges gave it to robinson’s by something like half a point and uh abram’s claimed forever.
After was the mob help, so this was before he was the world middleweight champ.
So he comes back to boxing.
He challenges.
Boba olsen for the middleweight title, poor mobile olson, very good fighter.
Just could never do well against ray robinson.
Robson wins: a bunch of fights, knocks olson out in three rounds, wins the world middleweight title for the third time so three times world middleweight champion.
That’S incredible, and what does robinson do at this point does something unbelievable because he started as a lightweight.
He moves up to light heavyweight to challenge the great joey maxim who was trained by jack dock currents, who became archie moore’s trainer after moore, beat maxim three times in a row: they’re fighting in new york, it’s 104 degree temperature defending under really hot lights, really humid And kearns gave maxim some great advice.
He said, listen the title’s around your waist, not his! You don’t have to go after him.
Let him come after you.
Let him use himself up.
Stop him in the later rounds, robinson won every round.
He was dominating maxim.
His speed was so so much quicker.
He only came in like 162 163 maxim was 175.
.
That’S something i neglected to mention earlier in the middleweight fights the five before the one we’ve discussed today.
You know robinson was coming in at maybe 152 153 lamotta was coming in at 160.
and their first couple of fights ray, robinson uh and him.
You know, lamato was 160 robinson was 142.
, so lamotta always had the weight advantage.
Most people did over ray robinson, but his speed and his technical acumen and his tremendous skill negated that weight advantage and the power of the other fighters.
So it’s a brutally hot day.
New york bully hot night he’s beating maxim, he’s seven rounds ahead, he’s eight rounds after the tenth round referee, ruby, goldstein, collapses from heat prostration, it’s just too hot and robinson is beating him and after the 13th round robinson staggers into the ropes he’s severely dehydrated.
His corner, harry wiley has to help him back doctor vincent nardiello, the doctor of the um new york state, athletic commission says i i can’t let you come out.
You know you could die you’re extremely dehydrated he’s having trouble seeing his kidneys are in trouble and they stop the fight.
Maxim wins the fight by tko, without winning a single round in the fight.
So after the fight robinson said, i was beaten by the heat.
Maxim said it was just as hot in my corner of the ring as it wasn’t yours, and so he goes back to fighting at middleweight fights.
Gene fomer, who was a middleweight but had the power of a heavyweight fulmer, was just a tough, tough man from utah.
A mormon and he came to the fight and he just stayed on top of ray robinson, pounded.
His body didn’t give him room to breathe.
He used the old technique of putting his head right on the robinson’s head and push it up with his head and then start whacking him with both hands.
Uh foamer, through punches from all angles, which landed anywhere, it’s a great middleweight champion and he beat him and he’s now the champ and robinson didn’t complain.
He went back trained again had the rematch and the rematch is going pretty much the same way.
Foamer is much stronger than robinson he’s, winning the first four rounds and in the training camp, harry wiley had gotten to the ring and he said: listen.
This guy is bullying you around.
The ring he’s got he’s right on top of you, you’re not going to win.
Unless you create space, you need punching space, so he showed him when you know get him to the far ropes, clinch and referee breaks.
Push him then take four five.
Six steps back and he did and then, when foamer came in, he hit him with a short left that traveled four to six inches left hook.
Former goes down on his face, gets up crawls to the ropes, can’t beat the count.
Robinson wins the title again.
Now former goes back to his corner where his trainer mark jensen says what are you doing and he’s jumping up and down and throwing punches i’m getting ready to defend the title against ray and he said: gene the fight’s over you got knocked out and former said That it was, i spoke, the most easiest way to go, because you see he never felt a thing, the punch line that he was out.
Then he woke up later former uh.
I think fulmer goes on another thing former goes on and to a tremendous queer ray robinson: uh fights, garmin basilio.
Next, the cannon stone onion farmer – and this is why the hall of fame was in canister and it was done in honor of him and um.
So he fights basilio in new york at yankee, stadium and basilio said his goal in his life was to win the world middleweight title at yankee stadium, all the yankees are there and of course it’s an all-white team at that point, they’re all cheering for him and He goes in and before the fight before the fight, they had a press conference and people said this happened before i’ve heard various stories.
I heard stories from angelo dundee or stories from gail clancy.
You know uh raricel, that he got up to him with his wife.
At a previous press conference for another fight and introduced himself – and he said i don’t give a damn who you are, but apparently at the syracuse fight the sign.
If i wasn’t in syracuse but the sign for the fight, they had the press conference in syracuse where he was from and and where he fought out of.
Excuse me uh because he was born in canesota and bacilli goes up with his wife to say hi to ray.
Remember me: i’m carmen brazillo and apparently ray robinson said something to the effect of i don’t wan na i’m not interested in meeting you or any digo horror you’re with.
I don’t know if he actually said that.
That’S what was rumored to have been said angelo said it took him and a couple other guys to grab basilio and hold him off, and so during the press conference you know they have the middleweight title belt and they sit him and said to carmen.
You know, that’s pretty impressive and he said i don’t care about the belt.
He can keep it, i’m just going to take these hands and i want to beat the life out of him and you could tell you know the resolution in him and the anger in him.
Of course, angry fighters don’t fight well and he was determined, and you know before the fight they said to basilio howard kosel, said well: nine out of ten sports writers said that robinson will win.
What do you have to say to that? And he said, nine out of ten of them are wrong and from the opening bell, basilia was on him like white on rice.
He he watched the former fight.
He just stuck to robinson.
He took robinson’s best blows.
Basilia was only five.
Six five seven robinson was five eleven, so there’s this great disparity in height and reach and basilio a lot of fighters do this today.
What what angela did was? He had a rope diagonally across the ring in training and he’d have to duck under the rope.
You know to get to the other side of the ring and throw punches, so basilio fought out of an exaggerated croak.
She used his and angelo eliminates from charlie goldman, which he used of rocky marciano.
He used his lack of height to his advantage by making himself a much smaller target, it’s very tough, to punch down and be accurate and george chavallo found that out when he fought joe frazier so basilio’s.
On top of him and he’s pounding his body and he’s giving him a hard time, i mean he’s really giving robinson a beating it’s a reasonably close fight, but basilio wins a split decision and is now the middleweight champion of the world.
Of course, they have a rematch clause, uh in in the interim basilio gone to a doctor and have scar tissue removed from over his eyes and angelo didn’t know that so in the second fight early, i guess first, second, third round robinson hits him in the left Eye right on the eye and if you’ve seen the fight his eye, swells up like a grapefruit and he said to angela in between rounds cut it, and he said i can’t cut it.
There’S no scar tissue i’d, be cutting right into your eye, and so basilio has to fight the rest of the fight with a swollen eye and he loses the fight.
It was a very close fight.
He could have gone either way and then robinson keeps fighting.
He holds the title for a while.
You know five times undisputed world middleweight champ fights uh.
I guess late 59.
60, you know he’s been fighting since since the early 40s he fights paul pender for the world middleweight title paul pender was a champion, then in boston and loses and robinson kept fighting guys, and you know he he kept fighting until 1965.
.
He didn’t want to retire from the ring, but eventually in 1965 he does.
They have this beautiful soiree from madison square garden, where in each quarter of the ring as a champion that he defeated, you know: uh gene fulmer, um, carmen basilio and the only one person who wasn’t there was jake lamotta who lived five minutes away because lamotta had Gotten in a lot of trouble, after his career was over, he moved to miami beach.
Lamanna got in trouble, like all fighters do when they started the drink.
He ran a club jake’s and, of course he was caught as a show in the movie raging bull with an underage girl there who was acting as a prostitute.
He goes to prison for six months.
You know uh, vicky divorces, him and uh.
He sells his title belt and he ends up moving back to new york where he works as a stand-up comic.
He works in different movies.
He was in the movie, the hustler and um.
You know when raging bull comes out in 1980.
He has sort of a resurgence and he outlived the interesting thing about jake.
Was he outlived ray robinson, but quite a while uh robinson, who was born in georgia may 3rd 1921? He died april, 12, 1989 in in uh, los angeles, with, i believe, his third or fourth wife from alzheimer’s right.
So he was 68.
jake lamotta just died 217.
He lived to 95 years old and he was cognizant till the end.
One of the interesting things i found out about him when i spoke with him was you know he had two sons and a daughter in one of his marriages, and both sons died.
One died of cancer, there were adults, the other one died in that plane crash over newfoundland in 8485 and he said to me that he thought it was divine retribution for the way he had treated people.
I didn’t agree, but i’m not going to say that to him because he’s pouring his heart out, he just thought he deserved it.
That’S why when, when he didn’t quit against robinson in this fight, he thought i deserved the punishment for the way i had lived.
My life but robinson after raging bull came out.
He enjoys sort of like a new birth in his career, he’s getting uh speaking engagements acting engagements, uh he’s making money and he’s doing well, and he had to scuffle in the early 1960s and late 50s to make money because he lost most of his money on Bad investments, so he would be at the hall of fame every year he would sign autographs, and i i mean i loved speaking to him, he’s one of the legends of the sport he and he openly admitted.
If i had to do it over again, i would do it over again.
You know if i had to throw a fight to get a world title fight.
I would because otherwise i never would have had a chance at the title and no one would ever know who i was robinson uh.
There was a guy that angela dundee was very close with who idolized robinson named mel dick mel dick is, i think, the third largest owner of wine and spirits in the united states and one of the largest in the world and as a kid he befriended sugar, Ray robinson and angela befriended him when he was a kid, he would come to stillman’s gym every day he showed up, he was 12 11 and all he did was stare at ray robinson all day.
Finally, ray robinson says to him: why are you looking at me? He said because you’re my hero – and i love you and robinson couldn’t believe it, and so they became good friends, robinson, went to maldix bar mitzvah and he drove him there in his pink cadillac, and he came in with him and like was there for the whole Evening and so when robinson fell on hard times later on, financially, it was mel dick who supported him all the way and also robinson when he had alzheimer’s, it was meldick who paid for all his medical care because he idolized ray robinson and angelo dundee was the Man that introduced them um, so uh robinson, although he had alzheimer’s, was still looked after because of his friendship with this young kid who, as he grew into an adult, still adored robinson and still looked after him.
Lamotta was friends of de niro.
Scorsese lamanna had a lot of friends.
He was mobbed at the boxing hall of fame and what i was surprised most when i met lamotta was how small he was he’s listed at five, seven, five, eight.
He he i’m five a.
m.
He must have been five, six or whatever didn’t have big hands, but he had the boxer’s nose flat nose and you could tell he was incredibly tough and i mean to have over 100 fights only been knocked down once and he fought the best of the best Acted ray robinson, you couldn’t at that point, avoid good fighters and these guys were fighting top level fighters every two three weeks, sometimes they’d fight the same fighter two three times a month.
There was no getting around it, they had to make money and you had to keep your rating where it was later on.
They appeared in uh with kurt gowdy on um the way it was where they would look at great fights from the past uh.
They were friends with each other in the end people like hearing that i don’t know why they like hearing that um.
I just want to answer some of the question um.
I want to thank noel for um saying this, so you can see all of ray robinson’s fights most of his fights on youtube at welterweight and look for the gavilan fight as well, and at um, middleweight robinson didn’t fight long at so welterweight.
That’S the thing he won the title and he was gaining weight, so he moved up to middleweight um these.
This is one of the most brutal fights i’ve ever seen in terms of brutality.
It compares to the third alley fraser fight, because it took a lot out of both man.
You know ray robinson during the interview of don dunphy is still you know, he’s breathing hard and lamana took a phenomenal beating, which eventually finished off his career.
The same beating that robinson took from basilio on both fights and robinson was never really the same again um.
If you can get a chance, i watched this full fight, it’s colorized, but you can watch it colorizer black and white.
You can get it on youtube and it’s one of the all-time great middleweight fights people talk about hagler hearns, you know, and that was a tremendous fight, but imagine that kind of action for 13 rounds.
You know you have the brilliant uh ray robinson, the dancer boxer against the incredible immovable force, the one-man slugfest jake lamotta, who refuses to be beaten even when he is beaten, will not go down.
If you get a chance, i’m telling you you won’t be disappointed.
This has to be one of the top 10 all-time great fights, especially in the middleweight division.
Next week on ring talk, i’m going to talk about the first fight between george foreman, the challenger and world heavyweight champ, joe frazier, which took place march 1973 in kingston jamaica.
I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend.
I want to thank noel and everyone else who who uh texted me, and i my name is lou eisen.
This has been ring.
J ring talk, enjoy the rest of your weekend, have a good day.
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