AIR DATE:
EPISODE: Episode 18
Donovan Boucher is a Jamaican/Canadian professional welter/light middle/middle/super middleweight boxer of the 1980s, ’90s and 2000s who won the Canada welterweight title, and Commonwealth welterweight.
Chris Omar Johnson is a Jamaican-born boxer, who won a middleweight bronze medal at the 1992 Summer Olympics for Canada. In 1990 he won the gold medal at the 1990 Commonwealth Games. Johnson was raised in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada with his three brothers, Greg, Wayne, and Kevin, and 2 sisters, Angelina, and Necoal.
Transcribed:
Welcome once again, boxing fans around the world to another episode of the scoop featuring the champ ray here on talk and fight, and we’ve got a special episode lined up for you, because we have some guests tonight.
Well, champ, i’m gon na put it in your hands.
Who do we have hello hello? Did that not go through okay, um, i’m gon na do a little tribute today before we bring those guys on [ Music, ] paws.
We can start whatever.
Can you i? I did i can’t hear you [ __ ], six, oh well, hello.
There welcome to the scoop, i guess um.
I would like to start today by talking about a little fighter that passed away on monday, um rasheed swasat ali’s rasheed, a jordanian amateur boxer, 19 years old, was competing in the world junior championships in poland and succumbed to injuries in the third round.
He was knocked out and never recuperated from that.
He um in accordance to the reports.
The this is in poland.
The polish police are actually investigating the scenario to see exactly if there’s anything called foul play, um outside of that everybody’s devastated, nobody wins.
This is.
This.
Is horrif horrible, to say the least, um 19 years old, just doing what he loved? I am a proponent of how safe the support of boxing is, is getting safe, but there’s still some cracks and there’s still some things that need to change.
I don’t know all the details as to what has happened.
All i was told all i’ve researched and found out was that in the first two rounds he was clearly losing and it continued into the third round, and then he was knocked out and even though medical support was right there at ringside, he was then taken to A hospital um brain surgery was performed and 10 days later, which was this monday that just passed he succumbed to his uh to his injuries.
So with that, i would like to do the customary 10 count for a fallen soldier.
So if you could all just bow your head and give a moment of silence, please [ Music, ], now [, Music ] rest in peace.
Today i have the pleasure of having two dear friends of mine, who are also a part of boxing royalty in canada.
Um on my show, two well decorated: well experienced well-traveled fighters both from the amateurs right onto the the professional scene um.
I there’s no better way to give an introduce to these two cats than just bring him on board.
So with that being said, donovan boucher, chris johnson – no, i didn’t know you guys do it.
He might be there on the front.
[, Music, ], hello, yeah, um, i’m here we’re doing tremendous um.
Could you hear me um ray? I can’t hear you here we’re doing.
Um we’re doing all right we’re doing.
What’S going on, okay, hello, coming right back with you, we’ll be right back he’s just responding! Okay, i can hear i can hear people now what’s happening.
Donald, can you hear me? Yes? Can you hear me great? Yes, i could hear you now: okay, amazing, amazing, how you doing.
How are you doing? How are you doing? Oh, no, not bad! At all, awesome! I want.
I brought you on i’m just you just what go ahead say that again, i brought you on because i wanted to talk to you about, and i want to hear your side of a whole lot of things when it comes to the world of boxing the professional Game from you, mr johnson, i’m looking to hear about his contributions to boxing from the amateur standpoint.
Let’S start with you donovan, you are a like an incredibly decorated, amateur and professional uh fighter whose career took an 11 year hiatus.
Why? Okay, well um! Thanks for having me on, i appreciate it and um i’ll try to.
I try to remember all that stuff that happened back in my uh in my days, um um coming up coming up through at the ranks of the the amateur um i didn’t.
I didn’t get the opportunity or i did get the opportunity to go to the olympics, but uh.
I didn’t materialize um in canada, so i tried for the jamaican team and um what what happened.
There was uh a little complication with me.
I took another fighter with makeup and we started arguing about who’s gon na fight in which division and um i end up fighting in the in a division that i never fought: 130 135 pounder class um and i’m a welterweight.
I’Ve been fighting welterweight through my career and i went down there in that 135 pounder and i end up not qualifying not winning the final in jamaica olympics because uh, that’s not my weight class but anyway, i end up turning pro in um in 84.
.
I went to the uh um turn.
I turned pro in four and uh it was.
There was a on the commonwealth title there’s later on down the road.
I mean entitled right after that after i finished the amateur scene back in 84 um, i won the canadian title.
Maybe maybe 86 could have 86 given given ticket, but anyway um yeah.
My career was going great um.
I uh the commissioner here in canada was um.
What what was the commissioner in ontario? I think it was basically there more.
He was bigger more for the money and um um caring about the sport per se and um um.
I don’t really want to bring his name up but um.
We all know that the commissioner in in ontario was ken ayashi, yup and um go ahead.
Oh no! I’M agreeing it’s ken ayashi and i don’t have a problem with saying his name: yeah! That’S why he! Actually? He was the he’s the commissioner.
So i know we.
We we have a history, we have a history with uh.
Can i actually you know what you’re doing right, what yeah anyway um uh through my career, i miss i’m 10 years of my uh of my professional years because of um.
So i end up fighting in the state.
I end up um fighting fights elsewhere in canada.
I want to kind of in the states so um that that was uh.
That was killing to me because i always wanted to fight in my good man during those 10 years that ken i actually didn’t, give you your license.
You were able to fight the states, but i couldn’t fight wow during those 10 years that you couldn’t fight in canada in ontario.
You were able to fight the states.
Oh yes! Well, yes, i was fighting in the states.
You i’m not saying anything right now.
Go ahead, i didn’t give you a question.
Oh man, let me text you go ahead.
Can you hear me? Oh wow, i don’t know what kind of technical difficulty we’re having there.
Hopefully these guys will uh be right back.
This is one crazy week right now we’re working with attempting to figure out exactly what’s going on here, um, mr boucher.
He was not just a canadian champion, but also the commonwealth champion actually defended the title five times um.
He was unfortunately robbed of like 10 years of his of his career um, due to one kenaishi going off and just refused to give him his license.
Only to then give him his license after i think he had what he had a fight.
He lost a world title shot.
I think i think it was a world title shot.
Obviously he he would have done so much better and in explaining this he [ Music ] lost the fight ken refused to give him his license back for another 10 to 11 years now was 46 years old.
How many? How many like thousands of dollars, would he have made in his career how many and he was robbed of all that time? Just because of this madman, this utter madman, um, he came back.
He fought a good fight.
I think he won the canadian title back again or he fought for the canadian title and at least he’s not what’s happened, hey come on come back on the show.
Uh go back through the link, yeah, okay, i’m i’m still talking, i’m just i’m.
I’M uh trying to do my best to explain your career in the interim, so please come back and save me okay.
So with that he is uh.
How do i know? How do i know him donovan and i go way back um relatively the beginning of my amateur career um, i started um.
I started competing or training.
I started my amateur career in kitchener waterloo and i came down to toronto um to actually brampton to train out of a gym and in doing so in my travels and whatnot all of a sudden.
Now i became more of a household name here and in doing so, uh met all the local greats and whatnot, even though i’m actually a toronto boy from the get-go uh donovan i met.
Actually, i think i met donovan on it yeah.
I met him on the film center, but after that he regular face in in the boxing scene and whatnot.
He was at the time going through his 10-year hiatus, so he didn’t have that many fights or any from from what i do um, but he uh great guy great guy.
He was actually to a certain degree.
He was a mentor when i was training out of atlas um.
Yes, okay, awesome! So please explain 10 years not allowed to compete in the province of ontario.
Take it from there.
Okay, like uh, like i, was saying before: um yeah, the ten years um, it was uh out of commission um, like i said, uh the doctor, um uh said that uh it’s inconclusive.
They don’t know what uh that that is.
That’S on my brain and um, the commission um in ontario, wouldn’t allow me um access the fight he’s saying that um uh i need to.
We need to have you clear before we uh, let you let you fight back in um in ontario, so i said you know it’s inconclusive.
We don’t know what it is um you know and we’ll never know what it is.
I could have been born with it.
Um so on and so forth, uh to no avail.
You know i mean we argued that until i was exhausted and um i i ended up had to fight uh elsewhere, fought in the states um overseas um, wherever i can, but not ontario, so it was kind of devastated.
You know i mean uh to hear those things that i can’t fight at home when i’ve been training here.
Almost all my life and all my trainers are here, so it was um yeah, it was uh, it was, it was sad and it was.
It was something that um you know i wish.
Uh things could have could have been been better.
Maybe i would have a different following here, but uh, unfortunately, that’s how it is and uh i had to take that from ayashi for years 10 years and you know end of the day he said: okay, listen.
You could fight in um ontario when i was uh 46.
.
He gave him my license back.
I said why would you want to give him a license back now, i’m 46 years old? What are you gon na do yeah, so i gave him my license back.
I ended up fighting um guard sutherland for the canadian title at the royal york hotel and i i know i beat him.
I i hit him uh in his belly and the referee said it was a low blow.
I ended up losing a split decision.
I said what hey so maybe it was a kind of um retribution for that um for fighting for coming back to fight.
They probably didn’t want me to fight.
It was too well but um.
I did it anyway and i just wanted to show them.
I told listen when i turned 60 years old, i’m going to fight again.
I asked you you want to fight, i actually yeah, i you know what and that’s the only reason why i got into refereeing is because of uh that situation there.
When i um, when i knew clearly, i got in a video that i watched over and over that i hit him clean above above the belt line and the referee called it um a low blow taking points off me end up losing the fight.
So i said: listen i’ve got to get back into boxing.
I got to get i’ll be i want to be a referee, so i ended up being a referee after that yeah yeah, that’s that’s uh! That’S chris.
In the background says, he says: he’s the best referee that that ever stepped in the ring, of course, of course yeah.
So you know i i you know it’s funny.
I end up refereeing a world title fight and actually three, i think three hotel fighter refereed in ukraine sandy here and another one in mexico.
But it’s all it’s all good.
I’M just you know, um happy to be here, happy to talk to you guys and let you guys know what it’s all about boxing is not uh straight cut and dry and clean.
No, it’s not it’s, not it’s not a cleanest sport in the world and there’s dirty people around it too.
That want to see succeed and you just got to keep on fighting and uh.
Everything will work itself out, which i think, which i know it will.
I have a couple of questions from the from fans.
I have a couple questions for you, um one was asking: was it only the canadian boxing commission that wouldn’t allow you to compete? It was actually the ontario boxing commission there isn’t a canadian well well.
Yeah.
Excuse me, the ontario athletic boxing commission yeah, that’s that was mr kenayashi and what we i was just explaining to him uh before how you and i met the first time.
I remember meeting you we were on set.
We were on set not in boxing.
It was actually on set and uh marcus is the one who actually made the introduction, but then shortly thereafter uh, i saw you all all the time at atlas and uh.
We were both happy.
Actually, i think we may have been doing stunts.
Half my weight.
No, no, no! No, we never we never spar ray is a it’s a big, strong heavy weight.
That is probably a white over 240 i’m only the most i get is like 150 155 back in the days and no um.
We never spark, but you know something.
I spied with land like slows, though yeah i just i just in the ring just to move around with linux.
I didn’t want.
I don’t want somebody like that hitting me ever i heavyweight ever.
You don’t want linux, hitting you ever.
No! No! No! No! I would.
I wouldn’t work with that.
With i see you might take my head off now.
You continue to come uh to give back to the sport of boxing uh via being a referee.
How do you well, first and foremost, i want to thank you on behalf of boxing nation, for your contributions to the sport um.
What can be done um in the way of like what areas in the professional game do you think could be corrected or could be better? That could be corrected in a professional game.
Um, that’s a good question! There’S uh! Let me see you know, i thought about that uh to be correct in a professional game, um [, Laughter, ], chris chris, don’t worry, you got your turn.
You got to turn in a minute um! No, you know i in in the pro game.
Um.
Actually, you know it’s, it seems like uh things are: okay, listen.
I don’t want.
I don’t want to see professional in fighting youtubers.
You know i mean coming now.
You know i don’t you know.
I don’t want to see that let’s take a look from um guys.
That’S been trained, that’s taken away from good fighters, that’s been trained, you know here you go.
We got um good fighters fighting youtubers when they could be fighting guys that dedicated them dedicated their themself to the support of boxing for all these years.
And next thing you know a youtuber come along because he’s got tons of views tons of people viewing they get.
They get opportunity to fight one of her good fighters.
You know um, i don’t know.
I don’t think that’s fair to her sport of boxing to the pros.
You know i mean because these guys they dedicated all your life, they came up through the amateur ranks, not a professional and and and here you go – you got a couple of guys – that’s youtubers that comes on on the scene, making big money, big money for going Into the ring with one of our own come on man, it was ridiculous.
It’S absolutely ridiculous.
As far as i’m concerned um, when i see these guys go off, you know, conor mcgregor made more in one night than marvin hagler did in his whole career yeah.
That’S insane, how do you think, how do you figure that yeah, how do you, how do you you know, i mean: how do you figure that you know i mean marvin hagel dedicated his whole life, his whole life to training.
You know i mean get up in the morning and running and sparring doing all those things that it takes to be a fighter next thing.
You know we got these uh conor mcgregor.
What how many fights he had, what 13 or 14 fights one one he had.
One, no i mean i mean overall, with with with him and mma and all that 14 fighters, all together, no like i, the whole thing does not sit well with me.
I don’t want to hate, i don’t want to hate.
People are going off and making their money all the power to them, but right it’s not.
This is unboxing call it.
Something else.
Is that exactly no, you know um you’re, absolutely right, ray um, all the power to them.
It’S entertainment.
I know i know life is changing the whole world’s changing with this pandemic.
With everything going going on, you know, um, it’s it’s it’s it’s funny how um things are happening.
You know guys are fighting um, real fighters, you know it’s.
I don’t know it’s good.
It’S good for these guys, it’s good for these guys to um to get opportunity to do that, but it’s not good for real fighters and you know that’s all i could say about the sport and that’s all i could say about that yeah.
I agree you know.
I you know it’s, it’s entertainment and you know i mean you got snoop dogg and you got all these guys.
You know it’s not it’s not boxing, it’s more fun.
It’S more fun thing! You know it’s like it’s like.
It’S like.
It’S like an nfl going, a different direction and – and you know instead of hitting you grab the guys to the ground yeah, you know it’s it and life is changing.
So i guess you got ta, you know i mean enjoy, enjoy the change with life.
I guess that’s, that’s all you got ta do i i want i want to thank you.
I want to thank you for coming on um, i’m also looking to see if i could talk to chris where’s.
Where is that when they call chris yeah i’m trying to get, i try to get chris on um on here to talk.
You know chris johnson, i know he’s around here someplace.
Let me see if i can hunt him down.
Please um! No i’ve never sparred lennox lewis, lyrics lewis, uh retired, just before i turned professional uh chris johnson yeah.
I think raymond want to say a couple of words with you, oh dear god, marie um i want to.
I want to thank you for um having me on um my pleasure.
It’S better! It’S better if i was um at home in my office talking to you next time, i’ll talk to you in my office, because it’s a lot of distraction guys are hitting the bag and you got you got.
You got um chris johnson, making funny faces he’s trying to make me laugh he’s trying to call you names.
Also too make him laugh, he’s the devil, and then you got this guy howard green.
I don’t know what he’s trying to do.
Look he’s trying to boss me around he’s trying to push me around.
Let’S talk talk to this guy good man.
How are you keeping i’m fantastic ugly ray? Please, please sit down huh well, you’re, doing you’re doing me a favor, because the light is blinding me.
I can’t see your ugly mug, but people in boxing land would like to see you for some unknown reason.
All right.
Can you see me now ray i unfortunately? Yes, yes, i can all right ray okay, i’m gon na be nice to you today.
What’S up, can you still see me ray? I can still see you huh.
I can still see you.
Okay, i’m gon na go over the place, ray sit down where i’m on my own, okay, okay, i’m there right.
Can you turn the lights on now? You can you see me now? Yes, sir, all right all right, i have a question for you: go ahead, rick now, um, you two were a well-decorated amateur and professional fighter whose career has been reconstructed from being a fighter to being well, at least in my personal opinion, one of canada’s top coaches.
You were working on cultivating champions of tomorrow with fighters of yours going to the next olympics.
Even when you, when you say uh reconstructed, you make it sound like uh somebody reconstructed reconstructed me, you know what i grew up.
I grew up in kitchener and i grew up with one of the best trainers ever and one of the best human humans on earth.
Arnie bean and i used to see i used to see what arnie did every day, he’d be in there and he’d, give his heart and soul to the gym and uh fighters would come and go and every five that that left him would break his heart.
But no matter how many would leave and break his heart, he would love this, the next one that came in the gym just as much as he did the one that left before, and i saw that and i was – i fell in love with it right away.
How he had the ability to take someone like me from zero to a hundred, and i always said to myself one day, i’m gon na be a great trainer and it’s something that it’s a passion of mine and when i see talent, when i see talented young Kids, i just i go crazy.
You know, because i want to be able to give them the opportunities that i have that i had so you know.
That’S that’s what it’s all about for me is giving back, giving back, giving back.
That’S admirable.
What challenges! Do you see in the amateur game, though, especially on the way to the olympics? I mean at the end of the day, at the end of the day, what’s going on in montreal, that montreal is running the game, they’ve taken all the ontario boxers or the national champions, and and put them in uh montreal and i’m a little disappointed in that.
Because montreal has never won an olympic medal they’ve, never one of them i mean quebec has never won an olympic medal.
So how are they? How are they in charge of the whole boxing scenario? I’Ve never seen them one of montreal or quebec guys step up on the podium they’ve.
All most of them has been from ontario egerton, marcus myself, uh mark leduc, raymond downey, uh, dale, walters, um, willie, dewett, sean o’sullivan.
All these guys, none of those guys come from montreal and david defyabong, come from nova scotia.
None of these guys come from montreal, so how is all is montreal taking over the whole the whole boxing scenario, the whole boxing world, in order for now you’re national champion.
You’Ve got to go and stay in in montreal, and not only you got to stay in montreal, you have to pay to be there.
You have to pay yes, and, and at the end, and at the end of the day you have to look at it like this you’re, taking away from your family you’re, taking away from your friends to be over there.
This is okay, so that definitely is something insane that has to change, because i i think in the way of josh frazier, if that’s not a clear-cut sign of things to come, and that this whole scenario stinks and needs to change.
I don’t know what i don’t know, what it’s going to take to actually educate the the powers that be because you know what it is what’s happening.
All these guys are leaving all the good boxers precisely are leaving and going to other countries and performing for other countries.
And what’s going to happen, is one person one or two people that leave and go to another country is going to go on the the podium is going to go on the podium for that country and none will be in in canada.
There will be no medals in canada, i don’t even know if they’ll have an olympic they’ll have an olympian, they never qualified, they qualified one olympian uh 2016, one olympian male and i trained them, and i trained him for nine months.
Arthur um went to him.
I went with him to the olympic trials and he was the only one to win and go to the olympics, and you want to know the funny thing is i never got to go to the olympics with him see.
That makes no sense who would go? Who would know him better? Who deserves more to go with him than his coach? Well, that that’s that’s the politics and that’s why, in the 80s and 90s we had uh, we had a 14.
uh.
You know it’s funny.
We had nine 10 guys make it in 92.
, we had the olympic trials in in dominican republic and we had uh nine out of 11 guys make it to the olympics.
Now we have one guy yeah one we had one guy, the last olympics and and and there’s other situ there’s other things that are wrong with the system.
I don’t think that right now right today, as we speak, there’s no good coaches, there’s no coaches.
There is no coaches, we had agent to the rescue, god rest, his soul.
We had arnie beam, god rest his soul.
We had, we had so many guys boom.
Great guys.
A pervert is just so many and they’ve all died off.
All the greats have died off and we we never put any money into the system to build the new generation.
So there is no new generation.
So i think the next time you’re going to see something it’d be in the next 15 10 to 15 years.
A good coach will come up.
Unfortunately, i think you’re correct it’s uh.
As it’s actually said, i had.
I had the the the absolute honor of being trained by hank boone arnie.
I thought you were gon na.
Say me: oh right, i i had the opportunity to punch you in the throat um no nice ray uh adrian tederescu, yeah um.
These guys were legends and i think you’re, absolutely right.
There’S a there’s, a huge disparity between their caliber and, what’s out there mind you, i think that you actually have the ability to be right up there with them too in creating but ray i’m going to say something, i’m going to say something to you and it.
It’S it might sound derogatory but ray i’m black yeah, i’m i’m black ray and one of the things about being black.
Is you you you’re not going to get a chance to to express yourself? Listen, listen right! I know i know how to make olympians.
I know i know how to make olympians.
I know i know how to make world champions because i’ve done it, and i am.
I am that’s right, i’m a matter of fact.
I’M one of them, i’m the i’m, the most decorated, amateur and amateur in canadian boxing history.
So i know i know i can make olympians i’ve done it and i’m doing it.
I took.
I took a a young man to jamaica who’s, never won a national national title in canada and he wins the he wins.
The jamaican nationals and goes is going to the to the olympic trials, but they cancel the olympic trials and i’m telling you this kid is so hungry, so talented.
I know there’s no way in what in the world he wouldn’t be on the podium wow.
So we’re still waiting to see if they they will pick us, but when they pick this young man, i’m telling you he will be on that podium if they canceled the olympic trials.
How are they selecting the fighters to go onto the olympics, uh they’re doing it? They’Re doing it in some ratings back from last year, or so where the guys were raided, or they they – i i don’t fully know, but they we should know by by, i think, by the sixth or the seventh of uh next month.
Wow, that’s not a whole lot of time.
Huh, that’s not a whole lot of time! Well, i it’s not a whole lot of time before the olympics should prepare anyway, so i mean at the end of the day you know it’s.
It is what it is, how what do you? What are your thoughts on aiba, i’m going to be honest with you, i can’t speak of a hebrew because i don’t i don’t know much about it.
I can only speak on what i know about and you know i i haven’t been in naive or been in that circle.
I i went to i took um.
I took a couple boxes to a couple international tournament.
I took a zolt to an international tournament which he won and i took uh arthur to an international tournament which he came.
He was second in the tournament uh and you’re.
Actually in um hungary, and that’s all i’ve really been um around the international scene.
Okay, fair enough um, i want to thank you for coming out and uh.
I i’d love to do it again, because you have a big mouth and you have a lot to say i think would be fantastic.
I wish i i genuinely hope i can bring you back out on back on the show another time raymond.
It would be a pleasure to be back on the show.
You know i’ve been asked uh quite a bit to do zoom, uh things and i’ve always said.
No.
I don’t know why i say no, but i’ve always said no, and i you know, because i respect you as a man and you know and as a fighter and everything i i said, i would do it for you and uh, and i appreciate that you asked Me on the show, appreciate that.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I got ta say one thing, though you’re still ugly um, you see okay, um, [, Laughter, ], okay, okay, see i was trying i was.
I was trying to keep it on a certain level, but okay, okay, yeah, i tried you right, i dropped.
I know you did.
I know you did, but i i but then at the last minute i said who am i i’m chris johnson you’re an absolute? They say they say you got ta, be yourself all the time i was gon na.
Try to be somebody else all right.
My friend, if you need me on your show, you call me again i’ll, be there all right, we’ll do we’ll do.
Thank you.
Thank you again.
Thank you again, my pleasure.
My friend all right have a good night um and all right folks, that’s that’s my show.
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