AIR DATE:
EPISODE: Episode 49
Today Mike and Cedric wrap up the final episode of their special on Black Murderer’s Row. Today they profile Charley Burley and Lloyd Marshall.
Charley Burley was an American boxer who fought as a welterweight and middleweight from 1936 to 1950. Archie Moore, the light-heavyweight champion who was defeated by Burley in a 1944 middleweight bout, was one of several fighters who called Burley the greatest fighter ever.
Lloyd Marshall was a light heavyweight boxer who was inducted posthumously into the International Boxing Hall of Fame on June 2010.
Watch Knuckle Up’s Mike Orr and Cedric Benn, who always discusses up-and-coming young, hungry, and (usually) undefeated boxers during his live daily show at 4pm EST (9pm UK) on TalkinFight.com or YouTube.com/c/TalkinFight
https://talkinfight.com/charley-burley-and-lloyd-marshall-black-murderers-row-on-knuckle-up/
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Transcribed:
What up talking fight fans, thanks for tuning in to this wonderful episode of knuckle up at 4, featuring your man, my core and my man, cedric ben in the den and today are two guests who have continued this wonderful journey with us about murderers, road boxing uh.
Thanks james for joining us again, thanks tim for coming out and joining us again to continue this wonderful story of this elite boxing club from the chapters of african-american series middleweights by every other middleweight in the world, uh, let’s say cedric.
What do we got today? Who are we talking about all right, all right, so uh, the two uh final members of this uh famously avoided black murderers bro from the 30s and 40s uh last two members that we’re going to focus on today is lloyd, marshall and charlie burley.
So, starting with lloyd marshall first, mr marshall was born june, 4th 1914 um, and you know the one thing that i noticed about all these guys.
They all turned pro like as teenagers.
Most of them says their marshall turned pro at 17.
After successful 200 amateur fights at 17 years old, it’s got 200 amateur fights that is crazy, um with the highlight being uh the cleveland golden gloves, titles in 1934 and 35.
um yeah, 1934 and 35.
in uh.
In one of his he had, you know a couple: big wins couple of losses in between there um, but in the mix he became involved with the mob, and you know how that goes: uh his hands kind of kind of got tied in point um.
He was known as a skilled fighter, with both with power in both hands.
Um marshall was a hard night’s work for anyone like his seven comrades in the murderer’s row.
His career was hampered by extensive hate and racial prejudice, um his one of his biggest after a couple months.
After a couple of losses.
You know i went a couple losses, a couple of wins um.
He destroyed the cincinnati, cobra ezzard, charles, a name that a lot of people might be familiar with yeah, knocking him down eight times and route to an eight round, the heavyweight right, heavyweight, yeah, yeah, yeah, um yeah.
He he subsequently he beat greece’s anton well.
I know mike’s gon na give the the the details on on the record and stuff like that, but um yeah, yeah man.
He went on to beat to defeat the likes of jake lamotta, joey, maxson, freddie mills and tony pandy uh, the tony pandy terror, tommy farr yeah, before losing his final two belts to bobby olson and harry kidd, lewis, yeah and harry kid lewis.
In the amateurs he’s lost to rocky martian right part of me in the in the amateurs he’s wrong lost to rocky rocky martian right, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, no, he won, he beat rocky rossian and the amateurs said he uh.
He he beat rocky rossiano right that that’s uh.
I believe so i believe so.
I didn’t read that part here.
That’S what i heard you say did he beat rocky marciano? It was um.
Let me look for it.
Let me look for it might go through his uh go through the record, while i looked at it.
Yeah.
Definitely definitely so lloyd marshall.
This 510, with a 74.
5 inch reach um birthplace of madison county georgia, uh resides in cleveland ohio.
I want to let you know that he was inducted into the uh into the hall of fame uh.
So here’s another one of these guys that has been inducted.
He lived to the right page of 83 uh finished his years as a correctional officer um and his boxing career man.
Uh no slouch in the ring.
70 wins 25 losses for no contest, 36 wins by way of knockout uh.
You know 36.
36 percent uh not go to average like knockout percentage and uh.
You know this career expanded a long time and uh.
He fought from 1936 to 1951.
So you know that’s a long time.
It’S a long career as the ezra charles was the name.
You might be thinking of the the cincinnati cobra tim.
Is that what you were thinking of yeah ezra, charles? He was a heavyweight right yeah.
I could have swore that’s what you said: yeah yeah, those are charles yeah yeah.
It was you said another name before it wasn’t edgar charles.
That’S why i was kind of kind of confused, i’m getting old, [ Laughter ].
No, if i had all those fights, i probably wouldn’t be able to talk, i can’t believe i’m [ __ ] up.
That’S right, no seriously! That’S that’s true, because my dad always said that he was like i’m glad i got out of the game with with uh with all my faculties was so proud.
He was so proud of that and then uh.
I remember one time we were talking and this is just before he passed.
We were talking and uh and i was bringing up some some stuff that we that we did as a kid and he was like.
You still remember that i said yeah man.
He was like he’s like you know what i got ta take something my memory: ain’t, all that good man because of the boxing you know, yeah mines went away.
Eight months go ahead, my eight minutes.
He said his memory.
Wasn’T that good.
He said i can’t remember a lot of things back in the day and i was like.
Oh okay, he said.
That’S all! That’S the only thing it’s my memory.
I was like okay, all right.
Well, you know.
I thought i never told nobody that until right now, man, i thought it was.
I thought it was.
I thought it was like the cell phones at one point, because it was an advertisement real, quick.
There was an advertisement on the internet talking about putting your your uh, your cell phone, too close to your ear and it showed all kind of diagrams where the radiation go into, and a lot of my friends was like forgetting too, but what happened with me? Like nine months ago, i just did a sparring session with this young guy and he just tapped me then like about a week later, i started forgetting stuff.
You know that’s the first time all before that i was cool and then it had to be that i think i got it.
I was messing around with this amateur and he didn’t hit me hard.
He just boom, and then i started forgetting stuff, and then i thought it was the cell phones, their cell phones, put them up here.
Mom, i’m doing this, i’m doing the um podcast i’ll call you back.
Okay, all right! Mom talk to you later! That’S dr reverend! Shirley bird, i can’t i got ta she she check up on all her kids.
She 80, something she makes everybody all right and i’m doing the same thing.
My father, i love him.
He wasn’t around.
I love him, but it was women that kept kept the witherspoon family strong.
It was women that kept all the kids together.
They got their money together.
Something went wrong.
They got the money together and solved the problem, the men they was walking around, making children like we like.
We like you, know, making children and not taking care of them.
You know you know how we do yeah, but but i’m just saying the woman, that’s that’s my grandma called me for before every fight, my grandma, i call her grandmom.
She said timmy boy, you better whip this behind.
Don’T you come home with no losers, you better especially laugh at home she’s.
Like i call my mom, i call my grandma every time.
I know we got ta.
Do the not my dad, not my brothers, i call my grandma and that’s that’s, who give it to me now go right into the ground.
I cannot.
I could agree with that man all right, all right, all right and now um before before we finish with uh with mr marshall.
Here man we got ta, we got ta, do him justice, we got ta, we got ta tell everybody in 1944, he captured the vacant.
Duration, world light heavyweight title with a victory over nate bolden and due to the fact that he fought during his peak during world war ii, marshall never fought for an uh, an officially recognized world title uh.
He then retired in 1951, after the ko losses to uh bobo, also and then harry matthews, but he fought four fights against uh.
Other black murderer row fighters, not as many as some of the other guys uh, but it was all within a two-year period.
Uh uh from september to 1942 to september 1944, and that’s before that big fight uh with him in uh as ezra so yeah.
You know i’m glad to hear that he’s been inducted into the hall of fame uh.
Not all these guys have but um.
You know at least they all, so they all been inducted into the hall of fame uh.
I believe they all have so far.
I’M i’m not too sure we’ll have to check, because that was because i’ve seen i’ve seen i’ve seen uh at least three or four of them.
Yeah there’s like i’ve read i’ve read that there are a few that have been abducted.
I haven’t read that everyone has been inducted yet but um.
You know it’s just gon na take some it’s whether or not they’re in the international boxing hall of fame or they’re in some sort of other boxing hall of fame, because they know there’s a longstanding as long as they’re there.
So we got ta, get we got ta get we got ta give vegas to uh recognize some of these guys too yeah exactly definitely the vegas boxing hall of fame, of course, of course, um anything more to say on uh, mr marshall, mike or anybody else.
No, no, oh, no just uh the fact that uh he he did fight against the next guy.
We are gon na, be talking you made it tell me he didn’t fight archie, more uh.
I didn’t play that.
I might have i’m assuming i mean they all caught.
Each other, so i’m assuming you did 1945 in 1945, uh uh may the 21st.
He fought archie moore.
These guys have over 100 fights actually actually, if, if you really want to get uh get behind him and he fought archie moore back to back uh month after month, he fought archie moore, uh, 1945 may 21st and then again in june 26th, uh yeah.
So he did, he didn’t find it was fighting young guys because he was an old man, yeah fighting for rocky rossiano.
He was an old man come on because, if you think about this, when he he fought when he fought against um uh our gentleman here, mr marshall, when he fought mr marshall, he was 72 and nine.
I believe it is and uh the next time he fought him.
Marshall had already won two other fights, so he had fought twice more in that month before he fought him again.
So wow, it’s kind of crazy.
How fast these guys fought man like week to week, archie moore, is a true, a true journeyman, true journeyman, true journeyman privilege, to spend a little time with him too.
That was great yeah man mitchell actually was real cool man.
Definitely it must have been nice.
You got to get any any cool stories you could share from him.
He was quite with me.
He was like quiet most of the time and when i talked say a couple words, he would talk back, but he wouldn’t really talk that much right.
I forgot who he was and came with.
I forgot who it was um um, kenny norton was he with kenny norton? I forgot, but i forgot who the heavyweight eve is what um you know.
It probably was because he was because he was with kitten on because i met him at the boxing hall of fame and ken norton was dead too.
Okay and uh.
I had my son.
My son was just born, so i come over to achieve and i say: hey man how you doing he was like hey.
I ain’t telling you sit down, he said, oh, that’s your son, i said yeah, he was saying.
Let me hold him.
I said.
Okay, i gave him the archie right.
I actually man archie talking next, you we looking at each other like and i’m like, she said well get him and she said well get him.
So i want to reach for him actually woke right back up and started.
He never left the conversation wow flash knocked down was the flash knocked down yeah.
I think he was training eddie mustafa, because i was eddie mustafa’s farm partner too.
I was sad, mohammed eddie mustafa mike rossman.
One time i sparred uh a couple of those guys too uh james, i was in prison with james scott.
Remember jerry the bull martin remember: he was in prison during the fights nah.
He was james scott.
He did.
He had murder and everything he was james.
Scott remember he came, he was doing the fighting in the prison, he didn’t remember doing the fighting in prison.
I don’t know tv cameras went into prison and filmed james scott.
He was kicking every jerry to bull martin.
He beat remember ricky.
I just don’t remember too much about him.
Oh, i was younger too, so you know what i’m saying, but well the networks were coming into prison uh actually scheduled fights.
These are actually things.
Thank you, yeah wow, yes yo.
He was he’s best known for having become a contender in the world boxing association’s light, heavyweight division well incarcerated at railway state prison in new jersey.
I just got here they closed this door.
We walk this ten seconds, close this door close this door close that door.
We come to the big gym, there’s a big big area with all the inmates in there, but they couldn’t come close to the ring they didn’t.
Let them come close to the ring yeah.
They all respect your name, scott everything yeah in 1974.
In 1974 he was uh granted parole to actually pursue his boxing career and then fighting out of miami beach florida.
He won.
10 boats had one drop between january of 1974 and 19 and february 1975.
.
So that’s why they got that cost.
That’S where they got.
That concept been in that movie uh undisputed.
Yes, there you go there, you go for sure, yeah, okay.
That makes sense.
However, however, so february 1975, after that, uh scott returned to new jersey, where he was convicted of a robbery uh and then an additional charge of murder resulted in a hung, jury, uh.
So from then to the end of his career, all of scott’s professional fights were held in the prison.
So yes and his brother was there with him he’s tall.
His brother was in there too wow.
I talked to both of them yeah.
It was cool, real, quick, real quick.
He bet that if somebody knock him down, he’ll give him uh like a 2000 or something right.
So my trainer told me told me 10.
.
He gon na give you 2 000.
.
That’S what you do.
He said slide your leg when you get in close slide your leg under his back feet and then push him and pull your feet.
I did it.
The whole jail got quiet.
He was cussing me out what the [ __ ], i pointed to my trainer.
He was walking around cussing everybody yeah.
I put my left foot and pulled and pushed my trainer took me to the yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah, everybody in the prison went crazy wow.
That was a strong dude.
I’M telling you yeah.
I threw him on the canvas.
Everybody in the jail just stopped.
He was embarrassed and everything you know he just was fiction.
We was doing that.
That was cool man.
I had a good boxing career man, all this fun with everybody that i’m here with without you, that’s something jordan, man guys.
You have to enjoy the journey man, nice, yeah, all right, all right, according to guys recording uh according to wiki uh, six members of murderous row have since been uh becoming international or world hall of famers, so wow, six of them so far have been done.
Uh.
We got ta push, we got ta push and get these other two guys inducted uh and we’re moving on to the next guy i’ll.
Take him away.
Let us know who we’re talking about now.
Yep.
Last but not least, we have uh the person who um many many regard as the the best fighter out of this famous murderer’s row.
His name is charlie burley born september 6, 1917 in pennsylvania, usa um, like i said, he was widely known as the most talented fighter that just never won a world title um.
He was actually a gifted baseball player too.
He actually received an offer from the team called the homestead graze that played professionally.
He actually started boxing at the k’s boys club at 12 and won a bunch of tournaments, including the golden glove junior and senior titles.
Does it say we’re part of pennsylvania where yep yep one second here it? It was best bessemer, yeah, best bestseller, pennsylvania and then uh and then he’s he moved and uh reside in pittsburgh.
Okay, he’s always good: okay, yeah yeah yeah um in 1936.
He was invited to attend the box office for the 1936 berlin olympics, but he declined as he was uh object to racial and religious persecution taking place in germany.
He made the switch to the paid ranks later that year, beating george liggins in a four-rounder in august.
He won, he won the colored welterweight title mike.
Give me a quick favor, get a little bit of this on this on this colored world um, these colored championships yeah this color championship uh.
We did it before before you go on to it.
Let me just finish about charlie and we’ll continue with that.
He um he won the colored welterweight title against the coco kid who we talked about yesterday, dropping him three times on the way to a decisive win.
Um.
You know they basically said: burley was a high-risk, low-reward fighter unorthodox, complex spiteful in his work um.
He made such great as ray robinson, marcel cerdan, jake, lamotta and billy khan.
Look in the hops in opposite direction and run a mile.
That’S what it says here, because they wouldn’t fight him um.
He defeated future world champions.
Billy, seuss and archie moore then knocked out holland williams and became the colored middleweight champion um.
Another notable fight was dj turner, despite being outweighed by 70 pounds.
What let me do that again, just to make sure i’m bringing that right.
Another noble fight uh was his win versus jt jd turner, despite being outweighed by 70 pounds.
It was said that burley beat his beat his man, black and blue until he failed to come out for the seventh round.
Wow talk about having the you know, the combination of skill and power, um yeah man, he retired in 1950, without ever being involved in a world title, that’s crazy, um.
They said uh.
You know one of the reasons for it because he was so honest.
Burley was one of the only ones that never had to uh um get involved with the mob.
So you know one of the reasons why i guess they never really gave him a chance at another reason why they didn’t give him a chance at the world title um.
He was a respectful moral, uh prize fighter and no implications to the criminal underworld, unlike others at the time um he passed away in 1992 at the age of 75 and was inducted into the ibf ibf.
Oh well, ibhof later that year, which are one of the hall of fames nazi international boxing hall of fame, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, um, honestly record mike yeah man uh.
First of all, i want to touch on that jd turner for a second uh.
That was that was huge man that was uh march 13th, 1942 uh um charlie, will weighed in at 151 pounds and uh jd turner actually weighed in at 219 and a half wow yeah, so uh.
Yes, it was huge uh.
If you want to check that out.
In the historic pages of the ring magazine june 1942, page 64 – for anybody who has those magazines you can check that turner’s face was beaten to a raw beefsteak inside of six rounds and then failed to answer the bell for the seventh.
So no joke here.
Man, no joke [ Applause ], you think of this.
He outweighed him he’ll weight him by 70 pounds.
Charlie burley was only a five nine man with a 75 inch reach at 151 pounds.
Even he finished that he had long arms 75.
My dad’s reaches that my dad my dad’s same thing.
His reach is wow 75 man wow uh, so he finished his career 83, 12 and two and 50 of those wins coming by way of knockout wow.
So uh he sported he sported a 50.
He supported a 51.
02 knockout rating uh in his career and uh wow man, the uh the amount of times that uh he.
He fought a lot of these guys uh a lot of times, man, uh, bert, leitel and uh.
You know all the guys part of murders where i think i i’m not gon na i’m not gon na say he didn’t, he might have faced them the most, i believe, um out of all the other guys, because when you go up and down these lists of Uh fights that he’s been on here, man uh those names pop up uh a little bit more than once, so he definitely were fighting each other man, oh yeah.
Definitely he he used to speed against that up that guy, that outweighed him just beat him up.
So kitten hayward was too too young to be with those guys, kitten, hayward, stanley, kitten, hayward.
Remember him yeah, he was too young, he was too young.
Oh, i met him a couple of times down in south philly.
He was really nice hitting hayward yeah, so burly burley is the one that uh that beat uh archie moore for the lightweight champion like when he was a lightweight champion in a 1944 middleweight bout.
Uh was one of several fighters who called burley the great the greatest fighter ever so archie moore was one of the ones that said that you know, charlie burley was the greatest fighter ever mm-hmm um.
Is there any video? Is there any video of him? No honestly to to find video nowaday, i i’ve been searching for for days looking for it for this special.
I wasn’t.
I wasn’t able to find anything um if anybody having a custom model, yeah yeah somebody’s got, somebody’s got to have a vhs tape and a vcr somewhere.
Yes, yeah that little eight millimeters yeah yeah so set up the old school projectors man we’ll and we’ll do it.
Like class but uh yeah man, this guy’s, surely really uh.
You know great boxer uh.
You know he was the holder of uh, both the world color welterweight uh championship and the world color middleweight championship and uh.
You were asking about that uh.
What that championship was right: um, yeah, yeah yeah, and we have a comment in our chat here from chris rayner saying: there’s uh, there’s not much video on charlie burley, but the one of him and oakland smith uh.
He really looks nice and uh.
We have uh.
We have the link in the chat there too.
Just click on that whoa awesome.
So how do you? So? What do you guys think man um like like you know like we do every day, all we can do is just kind of go off of the way they describe these guys and and uh and see how they would compare.
How do you think charlie burley would do these days? How much sorry how much what? How much did he weigh um it didn’t matter guys that was out weight in my 70s exactly right exactly, but how much did he weigh, though 150 pounds 150 pounds five dying? He had a 75 inch reach, so what’s him in mayweather, then, what’s that that’s water weight right, yeah, the boxers and them days will get hit more but they’re more stronger.
I think i think the boxers that were doing this back.
You know they would get hit more, but they’re stronger and they’re more dedicated.
So i think where the the knowledge and the education it’ll bounce and balance off, because you hit them guys back in the day and they stand and look at you and laugh at you.
Yeah now the days yeah now in the days you know guys, don’t they wasn’t it wasn’t they were strong back then right everything was the first thing.
They were friends with so [ Laughter ].
Could they say, take the same punch as the modern day.
Boxer was strong back then burley’s former sparring partner, aj blackie nelson offers his comparison, and he says he saw a lot of charlie in roy jones.
Jr both had unorthodox styles, they you know, could hit you from any angle.
Both were hard to hit uh charlie jabbed.
More than jones, but if jones would concentrate on boxing as charlie did he would have become an all-time great eddie futch, the great trainer called burley, the finest all-around fighter he had ever seen.
Burley was named the ring magazines list of 100 greatest punchers of all time.
Elected to the boxing hall of fame in 1983, and then the international boxing hall of fame in 1992.
uh burley, was ranked 39th on ring magazine’s list of 80 best fighters of the last 80 years, wow wow.
So when you put that into perspective, you know all-around great fighter uh, you know, there’s not too many of those guys.
Today, man there’s not too many of those fighters that are all around great.
You know who can display that ability to be able to counter punch uh, you know and and and be elusive and not get hit right.
Like tim tim, you you, you say this all the time: man these guys got to have defense defense, defense right both and charlie burley was one of these guys.
He he had that defense.
You know he wanted to hit hit hard and not get hit.
Yeah that defense is very important.
Well, he reminds me about the way you guys was reading about him out in the beginning.
Reminds me about demetrius andres.
You know what i’m saying a little bit.
Yes, the highly skilled.
You know uh again the high high um high risk but low reward right right.
You know.
Oh, he didn’t get paid good! Oh! No! If you fought him, if you fought him, you know you’re, not you might not get that payday.
It might not be a big payday fighting him right, meet you as andres.
Well like demetrius, he you know they.
They say he don’t sell tickets.
You know what i’m saying, so you got to figure that out.
So that’s why canelo and those guys don’t want to fight him right because he’s a high risk low reward.
Okay, i can understand that.
That’S why they don’t want to fight the man but tk he offered charlo.
They offered child like eight million to get in the ring and he still said no, but who was charlo, who wanted to talk? You know: okay, uh yeah.
I hear what you said.
I think i think charlo and benavidez are probably the best at one.
You know, i guess one see orders at 168 anyways at that one of those divisions i think, between those two they’re, the two ones that could give at least canelo.
Take that eight million yeah you get more.
You get more if you win yeah you get more.
If you win take a chance, that’s what we used to do.
That’S what it’s about, though larry holmes.
I had the courage, but my trainer said 10 we’re going to kick his ass once he said that i said okay, because i trusted my trainer right right and yeah.
I said, i said, slim that’s kind of too soon he said tim watch, you kick his behind and i said okay, so we went from soon as he said that he went straight ahead and i did pretty good so it takes like yeah.
You need your coach to have confidence in you too.
It takes um, you know to to let you know that you are ready because, like you just said tim, you weren’t, you know you were kind of you weren’t sure, but your coach remind you.
We prepared for the situation.
We worked on the things that we need to work on and uh.
He was ready to send his soldier to war, hey, he did that we all got together and he trained mike rossman, the jewish bomber.
He, the one beat victor galendez mike, was in the passing street, gym right where the rocky made the movie.
He was in there kicking dudes, but i don’t care what nationality was.
He was slick boom, slit boom, bam bam, you know, and then he lost the victory lenders on the way back.
Look, he won it.
Then he lost it back right to victor galendez, but he was.
He had plenty of heart too, mike johnson.
I sparred him one time, but um slim helped him with them skills and made it and that’s how i think he he definitely got the championship, light heavyweight championship of the world.
Remember him, you remember mike rossman right.
You see him on my face.
He beat victor galendez.
Okay, victor galendez was tough, yeah yeah, oh yeah.
What are the highlights? We got there mike um yeah bro thanks go ahead.
Go ahead! No, no! No go go.
Go continue, continue! Man! I just love, love love.
The conversations we asked you guys yesterday, if um, if there was any tim, if there was any guys from your era that uh maybe didn’t get the shine that they deserved.
But you say you know everybody kind of kind of fought each other um yeah.
They did um, no, i’m really not all.
Maybe before i started forgetting stuff, i probably had some on my mind: everybody called everybody, everybody for everybody um in philly like they said they held their wars and stuff.
But when it was spiced, then nobody ducked nobody, because you, you was viewed as a punk, but really what you say really is a business.
It’S a business and you got to stop thinking like a businessman yeah at some point.
You know yeah yeah, you might have to get around him to get that big money, fight or whatever um.
So that’s how but that’s how it was on the east coast.
You know what i’m saying you ain’t fighting and plus you want to fight the baddest man.
If you think you bad you want you want it, you want his, you know you want his uh his title.
You want that you want, you want to be the one to say: everybody said wow.
He beat that dude, not even even if you didn’t, if you gave him a fight for the rest of a fight for his life, you still get your credit.
You still get right, you know, nobody don’t want to fight you like damn.
He won.
He went 10 miles, almost beat him and and and beat him and then whooped on him like that and he’s like yeah they’re like well.
I don’t want to fight him.
I wasn’t i was inexperienced when i fought holmes only on he was fighting for three years.
I had only had seven amateur fights, but i trusted in my trainer.
He taught me all this stuff and it came from i you know i had represent philly south philly right with italian market right where they made the movie right, where everybody just be doing boxing and stuff in south philly and stuff.
So i had to represent.
Then i called my grandmom: i had to try to whip his behind grandma’s grandmother jimmy you better.
I swear.
That’S how i i wouldn’t call my father.
I didn’t call my mother.
It was grandma fanny and once like a half an hour before we go to the go to the get ready, i said: grandma i’m gon na get ready to go.
Then she said timmy, don’t you come on? No loser now she’s from south carolina, and i call my grandma man.
She she just like was only 100.
Nobody mess with her too she’s small and she will fight you.
They call it gang war fanny.
So so i found just a bit of information on the guys that we’ve been talking about all week, kind of just sum it up here, a little bit um.
You know the kokoa kid lost uh the title to charlie burley on the 22nd of august 1938 at uh hickey park in uh, pennsylvania burley won a unanimous decision in the 15-round bout, knocking the kid to the canvas three times and defeating him decisively and taking his Title but burley never defended his title, probably out of the desire to get a title shot with armstrong to fill the vacant title.
The kid in holman williams met in a rematch on the 11th of january 1940 at the coliseum in baltimore maryland, and the kid won a unanimous decision over their 15 round title about winning the title for the second time, the cocoa kid never defended.
His second title.
Uh but he won the revived world color middleweight championship in 1943.
.
So what was the title? The title was called.
It was called the world colored middleweight championship, okay, right because i was getting kind of confused because you said berkeley won a title and i’m like well.
He didn’t fight for a title, exactly yeah, so they they had.
They had their own title.
Oh that title came into effect: uh uh 1936 herbert lewis, hardwick met uh young peter jackson, uh in new orleans louisiana in a 10-round bout referred to by harry wills, uh.
The former three time world colored heavyweight, champ uh, the cuckoo kid won via technical knockout in the second round.
So it just goes to show you that these guys, were you know, trading this trading around this title back and forth.
They had they had.
They have to come up with that color world title, because you know they knew they didn’t want to give them a shot at the real title, and it would be too obvious.
You know that everyone would be standing there like how come these guys aren’t champion.
So they’re, like all right, just come up with a colored title, yeah exactly that’s what they did, but they didn’t have a belt.
Did they have a belt for that title? Probably probably just wrote out a piece of paper.
I held it up.
No there’s kind of there’s got to be a picture of it.
Man yeah, that’s what i was getting ready to ask you dude.
I have a picture, but i was it’s interesting to see what uh, what what the belt looked like, yeah, actually yeah yeah.
We got ta look that up.
We got ta.
Look that up.
I’M checking it right now: [ Laughter, ], um yeah that that that would be a piece of memorabilia to have that’s what i’m saying: yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah um back in the day, and there was there was less weight classes back then correct yeah.
There was last week they start adding on stuff.
Now, like you know, super middleweight, you know little weight, super middleweight and then, if the money is great, they’ll make one oh yeah catch weight.
The money is cool.
The money is big in that fight.
They’Ll make a wait say if somebody overweight, oh we’ll, make it super whatever they’ll get a name up for it, yeah yeah, it’s a catch weight yeah, i wouldn’t say well i’ll meet you we’ll meet you right here at this at this weight.
Nothing on that belt.
Mike no man i’m trying to look uh, it’s probably something that we’ll have to find uh uh through extensive research.
Actually because they got ta hold, they got ta, be able to hold the belt up in the ring.
Exactly yeah there’s got ta, be some sort of picture of a belt, can’t be no paper hey.
I got the chair something else, because that’s something else custom auto probably has in the in his archives.
Oh yeah.
He probably got it so so.
Colored people couldn’t fight white people.
Is that what you call it? Color yeah? That’S that’s roughly what they’re saying, because they didn’t want to check get b.
They could have they just didn’t give them the opportunity.
It wasn’t like a rule against it.
It was just they just didn’t give up for the title.
A lot of you know their hands and everything man.
You know what i’m saying so they didn’t know armstrong wasn’t willing to give that title shot to help right.
He never he never was.
He was a small guy right.
You talk about hank armstrong.
Is it henry henry armstrong before he was up yeah? He wasn’t.
He was a beast.
Yeah yeah, definitely yeah.
He was a little beast.
That’S for sure! Well, guys! I guess uh we’re we’re about that time.
So uh, you know what uh shout out to all the fans that have been dropping us uh some comments in the side here, man uh – i i hope we got to as many as we could of your comments and answer them with uh as much uh knowledge.
As we could uh thanks thanks to james and uh ray or sorry, james and tim again for coming out and joining us here, man on the show uh for this wonderful week of murders, roman for black history month black history week here uh, you know man, the Most elite boxing club, that’s ever graced the ring man, that’s what we went over this week and i’m glad that you guys were here to uh to be part of it.
Man, honestly and uh cedric, always a pleasure man.
You know what it is uh shout out to shout out to everybody.
Man shout out to you hey.
I want to tell you guys i got a podcast show called living on purpose.
I would love to have all you guys on there, man, you know yeah yeah for sure.
Definitely, and i want to get you all.
You know email information.
So that way, i can send you to our email, and you know we come up with a date and come on my show man, i’d love to have that we have run on the show we just it’s two of us uh, jason, wilson and um.
It’S uh recorded too, so we have fun man.
We talk about good things and we like to laugh.
You know just easy, mine’s, just real easy, tim witherspoon hotmail.
com.
There you go at hotmail, hotmail, hotmail.
com yeah, it’s easy with this phone.
How about that all lowercase? All right, cool cool all right, so definitely all the talking fight fans around the world.
Thanks for tuning in to this week’s wonderful episode of black murderers row, the most elite boxing group that has ever graced the ring.
Thank you for joining us and uh.
You know what we’ll see you next week, uh with some new prospects man for you guys to check out until then man we’ll see you next time and don’t forget seven o’clock panel tonight same channel we’ll be talking about this week’s upcoming fights and uh we’ll be Joined by, i believe, uh all of us here, so i can’t wait for that.
Man, it’s gon na be great right, that’s it! That’S it like share subscribe and if you haven’t yet man hit up talkingfight.
com, go and subscribe and set up those reminders, because you know we’re bringing you stuff daily.
That’S what it’s about man! Peace, see you next time,
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